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Origami Swift - Thoughts, Ideas For a New Version of a Classic

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Origami Swift - Thoughts, Ideas For a New Version of a Classic

Old 08-29-22, 02:42 PM
  #126  
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I can't see how a dropper would work with the Swift's fold--the seat post has to slide down to lock the rear wheel in place. Maybe with an external dropper?

Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
That's not exactly but kind of what I meant earlier in the thread about making a derailluer build and a BMX build. The net reach and stack would be about right though the rear center of the Swift is a lot longer.

That's also sort of why I was asking about the seat post. If it were one of the standard MTB sizes a dropper might be possible. That seems like something folders could use even if they're not using it like a MTBer

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Old 08-30-22, 01:31 AM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
That's not exactly but kind of what I meant earlier in the thread about making a derailluer build and a BMX build. The net reach and stack would be about right though the rear center of the Swift is a lot longer.

That's also sort of why I was asking about the seat post. If it were one of the standard MTB sizes a dropper might be possible. That seems like something folders could use even if they're not using it like a MTBer
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the Swift's chunky seat post is necessary architecture on the bike as everything else literally clamps onto it. That the seat post needs to have a certain surface area for the quick release clamps to hold onto. This extra girth probably also cobtributes massively to the Swift's legendary "stiffness".

Oh, and what seatboy says about its function in the fold as well!

Don't think that dropper post can practically be a goer, even if there was one available in a 33.9mm size. But maybe I'm wrong?

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Old 08-30-22, 07:06 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by joey buzzard View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the Swift's chunky seat post is necessary architecture on the bike as everything else literally clamps onto it. That the seat post needs to have a certain surface area for the quick release clamps to hold onto. This extra girth probably also cobtributes massively to the Swift's legendary "stiffness".

Oh, and what seatboy says about its function in the fold as well!

Don't think that dropper post can practically be a goer, even if there was one available in a 33.9mm size. But maybe I'm wrong?
The wider seat post does provide added strength, and it allows us to standardize our sizing.
I hadn't considered a dropper post, but I will stick with a standard seat post since I don't see any real value in adding a dropper.
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Old 08-30-22, 07:29 AM
  #129  
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I admit it's not a fully formed idea. Also I see that 33.9 is a folder standard size.
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Old 08-30-22, 02:55 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
The wider seat post does provide added strength, and it allows us to standardize our sizing.
I hadn't considered a dropper post, but I will stick with a standard seat post since I don't see any real value in adding a dropper.
A few thoughts on this. I would not personally want a dropper post.

Years ago, Brompton's rear frame did not lock. The rider's weight kept the frame riding in position. The locking mechanism came about due to people's requests who just wanted to lift the bike over objects without the bike folding. When it was added, you could set it to lock or not. Is this a different situation from the Swift? Yes, but not that much. If I open the lower clamp, I can pick the bike up without any noticeable movement or deflection. I am glad there is a second clamp. There is no tendency for the post to slip with it employed.

I have a Dahon telescopic seat post on my Swift. The inner post is a 27.2 suspension seat post. If I wanted too, I could put a 27.2 dropper in that. The thicker post is held by both clamps.
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Old 08-31-22, 11:43 AM
  #131  
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I was, in fact, thinking of using the hypothetical dropper post as a dropper post, for the hypothetical BMX build. Collapsed, it's maybe a third or more shorter than a normal post, which seems like it would also be a win for compactness. But everyone is right about how it doesn't go with the fold of this bike at all. It would have to be an AXS post or have something clever about the cable routing. AXS also seems like it would be really great for the RD of a folder but the price is eeeesh
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Old 09-16-22, 07:04 AM
  #132  
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OK, we finally have the prototypes just about complete. The rear rack needs to be painted black, and we need to add a kickstand, but otherwise, we are done. We did a 58T chainring, 11-42T 10-speed cassette, hydraulic disc brakes, and a paint scheme that may not carry over to production...but it is a a fun color!

Yeah, the shop is messy, but what do you think of our tribute to the Swift?


2022 Origami Swift prototype.
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Old 09-16-22, 07:18 AM
  #133  
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Couple of comments: I like the wide range of gearing. Looks like it could stand on a rack when folded. True? I had to pull back on the cables in order to avoid getting the cables caught up in Brompton bags. If you look at a Brompton the cables are behind the luggage block. It does look like a Swift.
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Old 09-16-22, 07:36 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
Couple of comments: I like the wide range of gearing. Looks like it could stand on a rack when folded. True? I had to pull back on the cables in order to avoid getting the cables caught up in Brompton bags. If you look at a Brompton the cables are behind the luggage block. It does look like a Swift.
It can rest on the rack, but it isn't stable enough on its own to hold the bike upright. Maybe we need to modify the rack a bit.

We can train the cables better than this; I will mess around with it to see what works. I just want to make sure that its easy to remove the handlebar stem for packing.
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Old 09-16-22, 07:44 AM
  #135  
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Is the top tube round or oval? It looks disproportionately bulky and I would prefer it to be highly ovalized. Perhaps two tubes, like with the titanium frame, can be used.

Thick tires and top tube make the bike look bulky.

Swift and Origami: the fonts and weights are too different. Keep the font style, size and weight close.

How hard/easy is it to remove the bolt attaching the seat stays to the top tube? Make it secure but easy to remove.

That green is not my favorite and I will wait till I see it in another color.
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Old 09-16-22, 08:09 AM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by anga View Post
Is the top tube round or oval? It looks disproportionately bulky and I would prefer it to be highly ovalized. Perhaps two tubes, like with the titanium frame, can be used.

Thick tires and top tube make the bike look bulky.

Swift and Origami: the fonts and weights are too different. Keep the font style, size and weight close.

How hard/easy is it to remove the bolt attaching the seat stays to the top tube? Make it secure but easy to remove.

That green is not my favorite and I will wait till I see it in another color.
When I talked with Peter Reich (the designer of the original Swift), he didn't like the twin-tube idea, so out of respect for him we went with a single oval. Yes, its an oval 34 x 65 mm.
Tires are not set in stone, we have plenty of options there. Since we are using disc brakes, we can do a 406 or 451 wheel, so skinny tires are an easy option.
We kept "Origami" in our font, but wanted to pay tribute to the Swift with something different.
The bolt at the pivot point is easy to remove for disassembly and packing the bike.
Other color options: Gloss White with matte black components, High Gloss Black with matte black components, and a few others. Our Plumb Crazy color on our Cobra model has been very well received, so it is tempting to use here as well.
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Old 09-16-22, 08:52 AM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
It can rest on the rack, but it isn't stable enough on its own to hold the bike upright. Maybe we need to modify the rack a bit.

We can train the cables better than this; I will mess around with it to see what works. I just want to make sure that its easy to remove the handlebar stem for packing.


Wow!

Thanks for sharing this photo of the prototype.

Would it be possible to upload more photos without the rack attached and maybe one or two with the seat raised up higher than the handlebars?

LIke on the Xootr I noticed that the bottle mount is on the stem post which I'm personally not a huge fan of. I've found that when I mounted a bottle rack there it cramped up the front end of the bike and interfered with my knees whenever I was out of the saddle. Would it be worth considering moving these onto the top tube?

I really like the floral font for the word "Swift". It makes the bike look extra special. I wonder if adding a stylized little swift bird in flight next to it might look cool too?

I like the rack. I'd immediately take it off myself for day to day riding, but I think a lot of people will appreciate having so much potential cargo space. And what a great suggestion modifying the rack to make a stand. Will the rack be available as an after market accessory, or will it come stock with each bike? ​​​​​

How much does the prototype weigh, if you don't mind me asking?

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Old 09-16-22, 10:08 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by joey buzzard View Post
Wow!

Thanks for sharing this photo of the prototype.

Would it be possible to upload more photos without the rack attached and maybe one or two with the seat raised up higher than the handlebars?

LIke on the Xootr I noticed that the bottle rack mount is on the stem post which I'm personally not a huge fan of. I've found that when I mounted a bottle rack there it cramped up the front end of the bike and interfered with my knees whenever I was out of the saddle. Would it be worth considering moving these onto the top tube?

I somewhat agree with Anga with regards to the graphics. I really like the more floral font for the word "Swift". It makes the bike look extra special. I wonder if adding a stylized little swift bird in flight next to it might look cool too? As for the word "Origami" it reminds me of the over-large "Xootr" logo which in my opinion mars the otherwise good looks of that version. With all that space I see the temptation to use it as a billboard, but were the "Origami" lettering at least 50% smaller it'd look classier and still easily identify the bike as an Origami product. Sometimes a bit of understatement goes a long way. That said, maybe another approach might be to go even larger with the logo and wrap it around the top of the top tube or the front of the head tube?

I like the rack. I'd immediately take it off myself for my day to day riding, but I think a lot of people will appreciate having so much potential space for cargo. And what a great suggestion modifying the rack to make a stand. Will the rack be available as an after market accessory, or will it come stock with each bike? ​​​​​

How much does the prototype weigh, if you don't mind me asking?
I will get more photos without the rack, and weigh it with and without the rack.
Yes, there will be a line drawing of an origami paper figure of a swift on the production model. I just didn't have it ready in time for the decals to be produced. I will be adding these to our other models as we go.
I am torn on the subject of our Origami font size. I think that it fits nicely on the tube, and we want viewers to know what it is. But, I don't want it to appear to be too big. I am pretty happy with it as it is.
We wanted the rack to accommodate panniers, so we put it up higher and gave it side supports. It will be offered as standard equipment, but can be easily removed if your choose. It always works out to be cheaper for the customer if we just make it standard.

Added: We will put bottle mounts on the top of the main tube as well as on the handlebar stem so you will have the option of using either, or both.
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Old 09-16-22, 10:25 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
I will get more photos without the rack, and weigh it with and without the rack.
Yes, there will be a line drawing of an origami paper figure of a swift on the production model. I just didn't have it ready in time for the decals to be produced. I will be adding these to our other models as we go.
I am torn on the subject of our Origami font size. I think that it fits nicely on the tube, and we want viewers to know what it is. But, I don't want it to appear to be too big. I am pretty happy with it as it is.
We wanted the rack to accommodate panniers, so we put it up higher and gave it side supports. It will be offered as standard equipment, but can be easily removed if your choose. It always works out to be cheaper for the customer if we just make it standard.

Added: We will put bottle mounts on the top of the main tube as well as on the handlebar stem so you will have the option of using either, or both.

I was gazing at photo of the bike after commenting and decided that the biggish block lettering doesn't look as bad as the Xootr logo did, so I edited imy comment when your reply slipped in

Looks like t's shaping up into a great bike.
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Old 09-16-22, 10:25 AM
  #140  
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Proving that everyone has different tastes, I think the fatter tires compliment the largish top tube and they would be my preference. As to color I also like white bikes with black components. The black Swift logo would really pop on a white frame.
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Old 09-16-22, 02:53 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
OK, we finally have the prototypes just about complete. The rear rack needs to be painted black, and we need to add a kickstand, but otherwise, we are done. We did a 58T chainring, 11-42T 10-speed cassette, hydraulic disc brakes, and a paint scheme that may not carry over to production...but it is a a fun color!

Yeah, the shop is messy, but what do you think of our tribute to the Swift?


2022 Origami Swift prototype.
That is the best colour!👍😀You have one potential customer here…plum is also nice


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Old 09-16-22, 05:19 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by jfouellette View Post
That is the best colour!👍😀You have one potential customer here…plum is also nice


do you like the wheels painted to match? Or would you prefer something else?
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Old 09-16-22, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
OK, we finally have the prototypes just about complete. The rear rack needs to be painted black, and we need to add a kickstand, but otherwise, we are done. We did a 58T chainring, 11-42T 10-speed cassette, hydraulic disc brakes, and a paint scheme that may not carry over to production...but it is a a fun color!

Yeah, the shop is messy, but what do you think of our tribute to the Swift?


2022 Origami Swift prototype.
Looks interesting. But that rack, though. 😭 My god, talk about ugly-fying the bike. 🙄 With the rise of bikepacking in the last decade+ there's been a move towards detachable bags. You've got a front block, you've got a long top tube under which one could hang a tube bag, you can hang a large saddle bag, etc. Racks? Nah.

Not keen on painted wheels because if you move the wheel set to another bike, chances are they are going to clash.

Frames alone would be good.
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Old 09-16-22, 06:25 PM
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The prototype looks really good. I have a Xootr Swift and if I can make some suggestions:

1 - Consider different quick releases on the seatpost. I swapped mine out for some cheap Sunlite one’s since my seatpost would slip.

2 - Please have the same sizing available as the Xootr Swift. I am 6’5” and it is the only folder for my size.

3 - Also have the same weight limit, if not more than the original.

I am beyond the weight limit of my current Xootr, but if yours is available soon, I will ride mine to get back in shape knowing I can purchase another Xootr if it breaks. For now I am doing a lot of walking.

Regards,
Joseph
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Old 09-16-22, 06:33 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but does the Swift actually fold? Or is it instead separable?
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Old 09-16-22, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but does the Swift actually fold? Or is it instead separable?
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Old 09-16-22, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
do you like the wheels painted to match? Or would you prefer something else?
Isn't there an extra cost for you to paint the wheels?
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Old 09-16-22, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but does the Swift actually fold? Or is it instead separable?
it folds. The rear portion pivots and swings under.
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Old 09-16-22, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
Isn't there an extra cost for you to paint the wheels?
yes. It costs a little more to paint the wheels.
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Old 09-16-22, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
it folds. The rear portion pivots and swings under.
Thanks.
.
Three questions:
  • What is the weight of the frame and fork?
  • What is the weight of the complete bike (sans rack)?
  • What is the bike's wheelbase?
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