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Seeking an advice on Tern Verge D9: tires clearance and wheelbase

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Seeking an advice on Tern Verge D9: tires clearance and wheelbase

Old 09-09-22, 12:28 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Now you're making me want to get into mountain biking with a folding bike to test this out.
Tern makes very solid hinges.
I think if the hinge can handle the torsional stresses of a loaded ebike, as on their Vektron models, there's a good chance they can handle the stresses of off-road riding as well.
Um, no, they don't there's still the occasional rebadged bike that has the crappy welds out there. I own a Tern folder, and I'm quite lucky I went with the 26" wheeled model. So far no recalls. Their other models? Crap shoot. And that's NOT an opinion.
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Old 09-09-22, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
Um, no, they don't there's still the occasional rebadged bike that has the crappy welds out there. I own a Tern folder, and I'm quite lucky I went with the 26" wheeled model. So far no recalls. Their other models? Crap shoot. And that's NOT an opinion.
The welds failing probably doesn't have anything to do with the hinge. That being said it seems likely they have updated their manufacturing processes as they have not continued to have recalls.
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Old 09-09-22, 01:35 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
The welds failing probably doesn't have anything to do with the hinge. That being said it seems likely they have updated their manufacturing processes as they have not continued to have recalls.
They keep popping up intermittently, so it's still an issue with tern. Especially since they're still known to hush people. Not a reputable company.
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Old 09-09-22, 04:07 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
They keep popping up intermittently, so it's still an issue with tern. Especially since they're still known to hush people. Not a reputable company.
I'm not going to trust hearsay on a bike forum.
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Old 09-09-22, 06:04 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Now you're making me want to get into mountain biking with a folding bike to test this out. Tern makes very solid hinges. I think if the hinge can handle the torsional stresses of a loaded ebike, as on their Vektron models, there's a good chance they can handle the stresses of off-road riding as well.
Give it a try, and let us know how it goes.
While its a similar design, the hinge on the Vektron models is considerably more robust than on the X11, for example.
I can see some wear on my X11's hinge where the two hinge surfaces mate, just from regular road riding (about 2,000 - 2,5000 km so far), and I'm quite certain riding on gravel/off road/rough road would exponentially exacerbate that wear. That's why I wrote "But anything more (than light gravel every now and then) and I think you're going to place a lot of stress on the folding joints, causing accelerated wear over time."
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Old 09-09-22, 08:20 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
I'm not going to trust hearsay on a bike forum.
Heresay? It was in all the media outlets in multiple countries.

Whatever dude,...
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Old 09-09-22, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101 View Post
Heresay? It was in all the media outlets in multiple countries.

Whatever dude,...
Lots of well-regarded companies who make quality products have recalls. That they had recalls is not in dispute. Your claim that the problem was not resolved and that they continue to have frame failures but cover it up and hush people is hearsay, and unless you can provide evidence of your claims I will treat it as such.
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Old 09-09-22, 09:31 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by willydstyle View Post
Lots of well-regarded companies who make quality products have recalls. That they had recalls is not in dispute. Your claim that the problem was not resolved and that they continue to have frame failures but cover it up and hush people is hearsay, and unless you can provide evidence of your claims I will treat it as such.
All the information is in the forums, and it's all plain to see. And not believing they attempted to keep everything under wraps is ignorance on your part. Tern even locked down their own forums to try and stop people from knowing about their frame failures. There's worldwide links to everything. There's no "claims", it's facts. If you don't believe it that's your problem. But stating that tern bikes are solid, and you want to test the hinge strength doing off road adventures is HILARIOUS! 🤣
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Old 09-12-22, 02:24 AM
  #34  
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I contacted Thomas Loesch from Velowerk.ch (Switzerland) who designed the T-tuned geometry for Tern Verge line. Thomas sells his "Werx" bike, and he states his bike is suitable for gravel riding:
"here the "gravelbike" version in curry yellow, others also say it's a "cruiser" - in any case it's great fun to ride it without having to pay attention to the terrain, the 62 mm wide Schwalbe Super Moto tires have enough reserve for it rough, but also roll majestically on asphalt. i have adjusted the geometry so that it is even more intuitive to ride and that you immediately feel at home. "hands-free" is no longer a test of courage, it's simply part of the driving pleasure. this version is definitely the right choice for bigger adventures: attach a luggage rack, attach a lowrider and off you go!"

The interesting point is that his Werx looks very similar to the previous generation of Tern Verge, so I asked him whether it has the same frame. His response was as follows:"Hello nikolay,



the werx is a quite different from standard terns :
  • Same frame tubing
  • Stronger welding
  • Fork made from crmo with brass filled forkcrown
  • Elaborated luggage-concept with low hanging panniers on stable racks
  • T-tuned geometry (i have developped this for better improved steering – rides like a Cadillac)"

It seems that there exists a folding bike with a mid-frame hinge that is suitable for gravel rides!
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Old 09-12-22, 03:37 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Nikolay View Post
I contacted Thomas Loesch from Velowerk.ch (Switzerland) who designed the T-tuned geometry for Tern Verge line. Thomas sells his "Werx" bike, and he states his bike is suitable for gravel riding:
"here the "gravelbike" version in curry yellow, others also say it's a "cruiser" - in any case it's great fun to ride it without having to pay attention to the terrain, the 62 mm wide Schwalbe Super Moto tires have enough reserve for it rough, but also roll majestically on asphalt. i have adjusted the geometry so that it is even more intuitive to ride and that you immediately feel at home. "hands-free" is no longer a test of courage, it's simply part of the driving pleasure. this version is definitely the right choice for bigger adventures: attach a luggage rack, attach a lowrider and off you go!"

The interesting point is that his Werx looks very similar to the previous generation of Tern Verge, so I asked him whether it has the same frame. His response was as follows:"Hello nikolay,



the werx is a quite different from standard terns :
  • Same frame tubing
  • Stronger welding
  • Fork made from crmo with brass filled forkcrown
  • Elaborated luggage-concept with low hanging panniers on stable racks
  • T-tuned geometry (i have developped this for better improved steering Ė rides like a Cadillac)"

It seems that there exists a folding bike with a mid-frame hinge that is suitable for gravel rides!
Thanks for checking and posting this. Itís very informative, and confirms what I thought about (not) taking the X11 gravel riding.
Very interesting to know that a more robust frame exists, and to be honest, Iíd still be cautious about taking one of these upgraded frames on any serious off-road riding, but thatís just me. If anyone gets one of these frames and takes it off road regularly, let us know how it works out!
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Old 09-12-22, 06:46 AM
  #36  
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These bikes are very expensive - check the velowerk.ch; well, it is Switzerland...
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Old 09-12-22, 03:39 PM
  #37  
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Chromoly is all you need. Best durability and comfort (and weight, when it comes to folding bicycles) to cost ratios. I ride my Dahon Speed on gravel roads without issue (also at road bicycle speeds on pavement). Get a Fnhon Storm frameset and build yourself something just as capable.
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Old 09-13-22, 12:04 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
Chromoly is all you need. Best durability and comfort (and weight, when it comes to folding bicycles) to cost ratios. I ride my Dahon Speed on gravel roads without issue (also at road bicycle speeds on pavement). Get a Fnhon Storm frameset and build yourself something just as capable.
😉
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Old 09-16-22, 01:05 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
Chromoly is all you need. Best durability and comfort (and weight, when it comes to folding bicycles) to cost ratios. I ride my Dahon Speed on gravel roads without issue (also at road bicycle speeds on pavement). Get a Fnhon Storm frameset and build yourself something just as capable.
The question is how to purchase this frame online.
By the way, the wheelbase of fnhon storm is 102 cm, while that of Tern Verge is 105 cm, so Tern should have more stable ride.
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Old 09-16-22, 03:15 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Nikolay View Post
The question is how to purchase this frame online.
By the way, the wheelbase of fnhon storm is 102 cm, while that of Tern Verge is 105 cm, so Tern should have more stable ride.
I've ridden a folder with 92cm wheelbase extensively, and I can tell you it's among the most fun I've had on two wheels. Even though it is not the most comfy or quickest of my rides, it is possibly the most exciting and fun for its maneuverability, agility and nimbleness. Wheelbase of 105? Yeah, it's gonna be stable, alright. At the expense of agility and the ability to turn on a dime. After a certain length wheelbase, you've got enough stability and any longer, your ride is becoming more and more like the Titanic. Think in terms of a Goldilocks zone, not in terms of a maximum. 105cm? I, myself, would not prefer a wheelbase that long on a folder, a bit of a boat TBH. The sweetspot, IMO, is around 98-100cm.

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Old 09-16-22, 03:42 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon View Post
I've ridden a folder with 92cm wheelbase extensively, and I can tell you it's among the most fun I've had on two wheels. Even though it is not the most comfy or quickest of my rides, it is possibly the most exciting and fun for its maneuverability, agility and nimbleness. Wheelbase of 105? Yeah, it's gonna be stable, alright. At the expense of agility and the ability to turn on a dime. After a certain length wheelbase, you've got enough stability and any longer, your ride is becoming more and more like the Titanic. Think in terms of a Goldilocks zone, not in terms of a maximum. 105cm? I, myself, would not prefer a wheelbase that long on a folder, a bit of a boat TBH. The sweetspot, IMO, is around 98-100cm.
A question of desired agility/twitchiness goes to personal preferences. I have two 20" folding bikes: Downtube 8HN 2007 and Fsir Spin 5. The former has a wheelbase of 105 cm, while the latter is 98 cm. I feel a huge difference between them, and I definitely prefer the Downtube, despite its much larger weight. But that's me
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Old 09-16-22, 04:35 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Nikolay View Post
A question of desired agility/twitchiness goes to personal preferences. I have two 20" folding bikes: Downtube 8HN 2007 and Fsir Spin 5. The former has a wheelbase of 105 cm, while the latter is 98 cm. I feel a huge difference between them, and I definitely prefer the Downtube, despite its much larger weight. But that's me
That's right. But personal preference is greatly influenced by our experience, capabilities and prejudices. You like oceanliners, gotcha. 😉


​​​​
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Old 09-16-22, 05:09 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon View Post
That's right. But personal preference is greatly influenced by our experience, capabilities and prejudices. You like oceanliners, gotcha. 😉
​​​​
While I would agree with what you say about wheelbase, it is only one factor in stability and handling. To say 105 wheelbase bikes handle like ocean liners is over-the-top, disingenuous and false. Until last year I had been riding my Swift and Brompton, 104 and 105 mm wheelbase, respectively. Last year I got a Zizzo Liberte with a 98 mm wheelbase. Right off the bat, the difference was noticeable, but it was not unpleasant. It is more responsive and perhaps more "pitchable". After a few rides, I did not really notice it. If I were to chose which bike to carve through heavy downtown traffic or fast turns, it would be the Brompton.
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Old 09-16-22, 05:22 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta View Post
While I would agree with what you say about wheelbase, it is only one factor in stability and handling. To say 105 wheelbase bikes handle like ocean liners is over-the-top, disingenuous and false. Until last year I had been riding my Swift and Brompton, 104 and 105 mm wheelbase, respectively. Last year I got a Zizzo Liberte with a 98 mm wheelbase. Right off the bat, the difference was noticeable, but it was not unpleasant. It is more responsive and perhaps more "pitchable". After a few rides, I did not really notice it. If I were to chose which bike to carve through heavy downtown traffic or fast turns, it would be the Brompton.
But, of course! We all know a Brompton is the perfect bike. There is no bike that bests it in any one category. The perfect bicycle.

Yeah, I guess I just know how to handle myself better on a short wheelbase, small wheel rig through the city. You too like ocean liners and dislike high maneuverability and agility, gotcha. 😉.
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Old 09-16-22, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon View Post
But, of course! We all know a Brompton is the perfect bike. There is no bike that bests it in any one category. The perfect bicycle.

Yeah, I guess I just know how to handle myself better on a short wheelbase, small wheel rig through the city. You too like ocean liners and dislike high maneuverability and agility, gotcha. 😉.
Unfortunately Ron the Brompton is not perfect, but I can understand why you would say that. Both Zizzo and Swift, with 50mm tires ride better.

I do like the ride of the Zizzo with its 98 cm wheelbase that makes it an ocean liner, in your mind.
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Old 09-17-22, 03:16 PM
  #46  
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One thing i want to share, since i did the same before as @Nikolay somehow - chasing after the biggest possible tire on a folder. Keep an eye on bottom bracket height. I ended up at 33cm on my FSIR Spin5.1 with 37-451, you might end up even higher and you feel that something is wrong. I realized it before i went for more with OS20 rubber - there was space left. Maybe it is to fit also 23-406 tires in the same frame and still have the min. ground clearance. If you have experience with BMX tire material, you also know the limitations such as missing rain skills, puncture protection and rolling resistance at comfortable pressure.
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Old 10-26-22, 08:08 AM
  #47  
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Eventually, I purchased the Tern Verge D9 and installed the Vee Tire 47-451 tires on it. There is no clearance issue at the front; at the rear the clearance is approx. 3 mm at the seatstays&chainstays bridges (radially to the tire). Such clearance should be sufficient if I do not grab mud.
The tire is SKU No. B41144-OS (https://veetireco.com/product/bmx-sp...ter-oversized/). On the website it is described as OS20x1.75 and 41-451; however, on the tire, it is written 47-451. The actual width with the narrow stock rims is approx. 40 mm.
Therefore, it is possible to install a thicker tires to the Tern Verge D9!


Chainstays bridge clearance

Seatstays bridge clearance

Tire marking 47-451
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Old 10-26-22, 09:26 PM
  #48  
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You can make a ballpark estimate of BB height increase or decrease when swapping tires. Wheel height can be approximated by the formula: rim diameter + (2 x tire width).

Example: the wheel height of a 305 rim with 50mm tires is approximately 305 + 50 + 50 = 405mm

So if you know your BB height now, you can estimate the approximate BB height with smaller|bigger tires.
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