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Largest cassette on a 20" Dahon?

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Largest cassette on a 20" Dahon?

Old 02-26-24, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
You're good, no jerkiness taken.

The genuine Dahon Deltech (only OEM now, available as retrofit this summer they say), is set up just like the shrouds on a sailboat; Stainless steel cable with swaged end fittings with threads and nut to adjust.

The Dahon monotube frame with hinge, is "adequate" for the application. I have seen several express that "folding frames are not designed to last forever". Maybe, but I want at least a couple decades. The monobeam itself is plenty strong, but the hinge does not have a wide "spread" so is inherently weaker. Usually to get stronger, you can eliminate the hinge and have a swinging triangle like a Bike Friday, which also allows them to make the Diamond Llama instead of just a monobeam, super stout frame (the basis for their new All-Packa), but it's a messier fold IMO than the Dahon. The Deltech and my rigged improvised replacement, does the same thing, but does not impede folding. On a diamond frame, the lower downtube is loaded in tension and torsion. The cable doesn't improve torsion, but the big monobeam is plenty stiff. But the cable increases the "depth of section" in bending *enormously*, and further, places the hinge in compression and not bending, also a big plus. It may look like a kludge, but is entirely sound in theory. Having said that, the newish Dahon Launch uses what may be a better folding joint, once folded, there is no load on the hinge pin, that only exists to hold the two pieces together when folded. The hinge joint is interlocking teeth, looks good on paper, my only question is whether there will be tiny movement in said over time, resulting in unflat surfaces and non-tightness. We'll see. I think that design, if truly superior, should be implemented across the board. Look closely:






IIRC, Dahon is also claiming max load increase to 300 lbs with Deltech, up from 231 lbs. That's a big increase, which should also increase fatigue life of the frame greatly, at lower loads. Fatigue life is non-linear with respect to load and stress; IIRC, each 10% reduction in stress, doubles fatigue life (and that's a conservative estimate, often it's much more in high cycle fatigue).

I have a dahon launch D8 with the deltec cable and interlocking jaw joint
The ride feel is better, but the joint make noises
Also, the cable sometimes tightens as you ride, causing the locking mechanism to become impossible to lock/unlock (this locking mechanism is already hard to use in the first place)

If the deltec cable adds stiffness and durability already, I'd rather get a dahon with an older generation locking mechanism
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Old 02-26-24, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
I have a dahon launch D8 with the deltec cable and interlocking jaw joint
The ride feel is better, but the joint make noises
Also, the cable sometimes tightens as you ride, causing the locking mechanism to become impossible to lock/unlock (this locking mechanism is already hard to use in the first place)

If the deltec cable adds stiffness and durability already, I'd rather get a dahon with an older generation locking mechanism
Interesting. Maybe this is why Dahon has not expanded that hinge/jaw design to other models. Squeaking at the joint: You might want to ask Dahon if a light, clean lube like silicone spray would be OK at the joint jaws, or if no, because they rely on friction there.

I still perceive the Launch jaw to be more durable than their other standard pinned hinges, as more surface area and on both sides of the joint. But I could be wrong.

I can't see why the cable would tighten when riding, except if the aluminum frame warms up (sun?) and expands lengthwise, as steel (cable) has lower coefficient of thermal expansion. Maybe the frame hinge needs a separating "assist" mechanism. Oh, I do see a small spring. But it's only on one side, I think it may need on both. They should design the clamp lever like a desmodromic valve; pushes up when clamping, pulls down when unclamping.

Bums me that when debuted, the Launch pictures indicated a braze-on for a front derailleur, but later models seem to lack that.

Right now, a Launch D8 sells for only USD $50 more than a Mariner D8. I pined for a Launch for the disc brakes, but now would probably get an Origami Bull at half the price.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-26-24 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 02-27-24, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Interesting. Maybe this is why Dahon has not expanded that hinge/jaw design to other models. Squeaking at the joint: You might want to ask Dahon if a light, clean lube like silicone spray would be OK at the joint jaws, or if no, because they rely on friction there.

I still perceive the Launch jaw to be more durable than their other standard pinned hinges, as more surface area and on both sides of the joint. But I could be wrong.

I can't see why the cable would tighten when riding, except if the aluminum frame warms up (sun?) and expands lengthwise, as steel (cable) has lower coefficient of thermal expansion. Maybe the frame hinge needs a separating "assist" mechanism. Oh, I do see a small spring. But it's only on one side, I think it may need on both. They should design the clamp lever like a desmodromic valve; pushes up when clamping, pulls down when unclamping.

Bums me that when debuted, the Launch pictures indicated a braze-on for a front derailleur, but later models seem to lack that.

Right now, a Launch D8 sells for only USD $50 more than a Mariner D8. I pined for a Launch for the disc brakes, but now would probably get an Origami Bull at half the price.


I mod it into a road bike, so maybe I'm abusing it too much
Tried using silicone spray on the joints, but it still creaks especially when I put power into it
I have to use an aftermarket clamp on derailleur too, and overtime it untightens
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Old 02-27-24, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Interesting. Maybe this is why Dahon has not expanded that hinge/jaw design to other models. Squeaking at the joint: You might want to ask Dahon if a light, clean lube like silicone spray would be OK at the joint jaws, or if no, because they rely on friction there.

I still perceive the Launch jaw to be more durable than their other standard pinned hinges, as more surface area and on both sides of the joint. But I could be wrong.

I can't see why the cable would tighten when riding, except if the aluminum frame warms up (sun?) and expands lengthwise, as steel (cable) has lower coefficient of thermal expansion. Maybe the frame hinge needs a separating "assist" mechanism. Oh, I do see a small spring. But it's only on one side, I think it may need on both. They should design the clamp lever like a desmodromic valve; pushes up when clamping, pulls down when unclamping.

Bums me that when debuted, the Launch pictures indicated a braze-on for a front derailleur, but later models seem to lack that.

Right now, a Launch D8 sells for only USD $50 more than a Mariner D8. I pined for a Launch for the disc brakes, but now would probably get an Origami Bull at half the price.
Dahon doesn't need to be asked if it's ok to spray lube on the joint. It won't solve the annoying squeaking. I'm not a fan of that type of joint. It was finicky... Locking it was a PITA.
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Old 02-27-24, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot


I mod it into a road bike, so maybe I'm abusing it too much
Tried using silicone spray on the joints, but it still creaks especially when I put power into it
I have to use an aftermarket clamp on derailleur too, and overtime it untightens
Wow, that's awesome, what I would do if I had a Launch, only I would have used a wider double, 50/34. Nice wheels, super sporty. One one hand, I'm inclined to follow the advice of a LBS here that advises against carbon fiber for anything, unless one races competitively. On the other hand, those rims may be super durable in fatigue life at the spoke holes, which would be nice, as they'll never wear out due to sidewall wear with discs. Hard to see... are those hubs with straight-pull spokes?

Looks like you fit a fixed-height stem, more rigid and less squeaks than the telescoping stem. Nice.

What's your high-cog? 11, or something smaller?

Is the droop-nose on the saddle, for ease of carrying there on your shoulder? Or does your saddle think it's Concorde coming in to land?

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-27-24 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 02-28-24, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
I mod it into a road bike, so maybe I'm abusing it too much
Tried using silicone spray on the joints, but it still creaks especially when I put power into it
Have you tried a layer of "gorilla tape" on the inner joint surface?

I was getting creaks on my jetstream and put some "engineering marker" on both hinge surfaces to highlight where the rubbing/creaking was coming from. As the frame hinge features were not machined to a high level on precision with some frame paint on top and mechanism stacked up tolerances rather large... there are at least micro-motions resulting in creaking.
After a few rides, it showed where the frame was in contact/compression and highlighted the high and low spots...
I trimmed a piece of gorilla tape, stuck in on the inner surface on the frame and as the hinge closed and went compression, the tape layer added an extra "soft-clamping" load ; it filled the gaps and dampened the system. Not more creak and micromotion. Note that it is classic "trick" to stop buzz in race cars.

I did the same on the Helios.
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Old 02-28-24, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz
Have you tried a layer of "gorilla tape" on the inner joint surface?

I was getting creaks on my jetstream and put some "engineering marker" on both hinge surfaces to highlight where the rubbing/creaking was coming from. As the frame hinge features were not machined to a high level on precision with some frame paint on top and mechanism stacked up tolerances rather large... there are at least micro-motions resulting in creaking.
After a few rides, it showed where the frame was in contact/compression and highlighted the high and low spots...
I trimmed a piece of gorilla tape, stuck in on the inner surface on the frame and as the hinge closed and went compression, the tape layer added an extra "soft-clamping" load ; it filled the gaps and dampened the system. Not more creak and micromotion. Note that it is classic "trick" to stop buzz in race cars.

I did the same on the Helios.
Gorilla makes many types of tape. Are you referring to packing tape or duct type tape? Link, please.
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Old 02-28-24, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
Gorilla makes many types of tape. Are you referring to packing tape or duct type tape? Link, please.
the stronger duct tape
https://www.gorillatough.com/product...-gorilla-tape/
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Old 02-28-24, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Wow, that's awesome, what I would do if I had a Launch, only I would have used a wider double, 50/34. Nice wheels, super sporty. One one hand, I'm inclined to follow the advice of a LBS here that advises against carbon fiber for anything, unless one races competitively. On the other hand, those rims may be super durable in fatigue life at the spoke holes, which would be nice, as they'll never wear out due to sidewall wear with discs. Hard to see... are those hubs with straight-pull spokes?

Looks like you fit a fixed-height stem, more rigid and less squeaks than the telescoping stem. Nice.

What's your high-cog? 11, or something smaller?

Is the droop-nose on the saddle, for ease of carrying there on your shoulder? Or does your saddle think it's Concorde coming in to land?

The carbon stuff is made of T800 and is working out pretty well so far after a year
hubs are made of straight pull spokes, cogs go from 11-28
saddle is SMP TRK, after trying a fair amount of saddles, these feel the most comfortable
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Old 02-28-24, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
The carbon stuff is made of T800 and is working out pretty well so far after a year
hubs are made of straight pull spokes, cogs go from 11-28
saddle is SMP TRK, after trying a fair amount of saddles, these feel the most comfortable
Interesting. My 20" Dahon runs a 50/11 high gear, which is enough for me, enough to pedal down gentle grades (85 gear inches), but yours looks racy enough that, even with a 52 or 53 ring, I thought you might be running a 10 or 9 high cog.

I looked up the saddle, said a top choice for "trekking bikes", but no comments from the maker or consumers regarding the droop nose. I've seen Bromptons with saddles that had an underside on the front of the saddle that had a nice padded curve to it, to shoulder the bike there, I thought your saddle may be similar.

Straight pull spokes: Not only racy, but it appears to me, ridiculously easy to replace a broken spoke in the field, even rear drive-side without removing the cassette. I hope that becomes more common.

T800: Not famililar with, looked up, looks like a high-fiber-percentage versus resin, there's a formal term for this with fiberglass boats but that escapes me at the moment.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-28-24 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 02-29-24, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
The carbon stuff is made of T800 a
I'm not saying that the carbon components you have on the bike are either good or bad however, because they are claimed to be T800 don't mean are good or bad. T800 is the raw material used and while is important, the way it was lay in the mold, the number of layers, overlaps, directions, resin filler, bubble etc. is what define the product as good or bad.

Many cheap (and/or "dry") carbon frames exhibited poor manufacturing process, quality issues and failed causing arm.
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Old 02-29-24, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz
I'm not saying that the carbon components you have on the bike are either good or bad however, because they are claimed to be T800 don't mean are good or bad. T800 is the raw material used and while is important, the way it was lay in the mold, the number of layers, overlaps, directions, resin filler, bubble etc. is what define the product as good or bad.

Many cheap (and/or "dry") carbon frames exhibited poor manufacturing process, quality issues and failed causing arm.
yeah I get that
I can't really xray this stuff, but I can somewhat tell from all my experience with good and bad carbon stuff
The finishing, lay up, fairly even wall thickness, I think it is a well made product
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Old 03-01-24, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Fentuz
I'm not saying that the carbon components you have on the bike are either good or bad however, because they are claimed to be T800 don't mean are good or bad. T800 is the raw material used and while is important, the way it was lay in the mold, the number of layers, overlaps, directions, resin filler, bubble etc. is what define the product as good or bad.

Many cheap (and/or "dry") carbon frames exhibited poor manufacturing process, quality issues and failed causing arm.
Looks pretty tough to me. I'd trust it to hold up my bike.

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Old 03-26-24, 07:46 AM
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I was inspired by this thread, and decided to make a touring/errand bike.




deore m6000-gs
11-42t
50/34 chainring
big apple 406

had a brooks saddle initially, but I decided to switch it to SMP TRK as the break in period was taking too long

I absolutely love it, I can traverse muddy, steep gradients at a leisure pace
will be riding this bike when I want to smell the roses

edit: probably add dynamo lights down the road too
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Old 03-26-24, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
I was inspired by this thread, and decided to make a touring/errand bike.




deore m6000-gs
11-42t
50/34 chainring
big apple 406

had a brooks saddle initially, but I decided to switch it to SMP TRK as the break in period was taking too long

I absolutely love it, I can traverse muddy, steep gradients at a leisure pace
will be riding this bike when I want to smell the roses

edit: probably add dynamo lights down the road too
Wow, that Shimano Deore RD-M6000-GS part is something else, ain't it?
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Old 03-26-24, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Wow, that Shimano Deore RD-M6000-GS part is something else, ain't it?
yeah it shifts well, no problem with clearance so far
It is a compelling component for a folding bike, but unfortunately I think the production is discontinued
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Old 03-27-24, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
yeah it shifts well, no problem with clearance so far
It is a compelling component for a folding bike, but unfortunately I think the production is discontinued
I stocked up at $42 a couple of weeks ago before they're all gone. I've now got three specimens in my possession.



Next step up on the Shimano ladder takes you to 11-speed SLX.
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Old 03-27-24, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
I was inspired by this thread, and decided to make a touring/errand bike.




deore m6000-gs
11-42t
50/34 chainring
big apple 406

had a brooks saddle initially, but I decided to switch it to SMP TRK as the break in period was taking too long

I absolutely love it, I can traverse muddy, steep gradients at a leisure pace
will be riding this bike when I want to smell the roses

edit: probably add dynamo lights down the road too
WOW! Wide cassette AND 2X, so same high of 85 gear inches as me, but low of 15, which is what a serious tourer online said he needed for steeper hills. My current low is 21. That will be a fabulous townie and tourer. Well done. EDIT: More wow, that's 566% range versus my 400%, yours easily meets what some tourers have said is minimum range for a tourer. I'd go that route on my bike except I'd need new freehub body, cassette, chain, rear derailleur and shifter, and even new chainrings on my 2X as they are spec'ed for 8/9 speed. My current 21 inch low is enough around town, I'll wait on the above investment for when I have a disc bike like yours.

I passed on that exact front rack at the LBS used for $10. The only thing I didn't like about it is no aft struts to support the deck, and with just center-bolt aft support, the back of the deck could rock left and right under pannier weight. But for light duty, it's fine. I currently have one of those small racks that attach to the v-brake posts, strong enough for light panniers, and a stick added on each side between the front of the deck and the fork dropout to keep the panniers out of the spokes.

Rear rack is excellent, lower tier for panniers and holds them well aft for heel clearance.

I'm jealous of your integral front derailleur "braze-on" bracket, which allows you to mount that lovely Shimano 10 FD, which has a longer cable arm for lower force shift effort. I have a used one but can't mount it to my band-style FD adaptor as the linkage interferes with the adaptor and would mount cocked.

I would gladly take the Brooks saddle off your hands, if it's in the way.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-27-24 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 03-27-24, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
I was inspired by this thread, and decided to make a touring/errand bike.




deore m6000-gs
11-42t
50/34 chainring
big apple 406

had a brooks saddle initially, but I decided to switch it to SMP TRK as the break in period was taking too long

I absolutely love it, I can traverse muddy, steep gradients at a leisure pace
will be riding this bike when I want to smell the roses

edit: probably add dynamo lights down the road too
Nice!
Ya gotta post pics under load.
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Old 03-27-24, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Nice!
Ya gotta post pics under load.
It's you who's gotta post pics.
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Old 03-28-24, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
It's you who's gotta post pics.
Don't you have to get banned again?
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Old 03-28-24, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Don't you have to get banned again?
I don't know where you get the cockamamie idea that I was ever banned. The forum has a tab on each user's public profile where infractions and bans are recorded. I am squeaky clean with zero, zilch bans to my name. Nol. Check it yourself and disabuse yourself of this absurd notion once and for all. It's right up there with JoeRemi Bleu saying I run a bike store, or Jipe's pronouncement that South Korea's beaches are ugly and crowded based on his ill-timed visit and ignorance of where to go.

Where are your pics? It's been over a year, and we are still in the dark about your solution's ground clearance and part numbers. Pics, bro. Pics.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-29-24 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 03-28-24, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
I don't know where you get the cockamamie idea that I was ever banned. The forum has a tab on each user's public profile where infractions and bans are recorded. I am squeaky clean with zero, zilch bans to my name. Nol. Check it yourself and disabuse yourself of this absurd notion once and for all. It's right up there with Bleu saying I run a bike store, or Jipe's pronouncement that South Korea's beaches are ugly and crowded based on his ill-timed visit and ignorance of where to go.

Where are your pics? It's been over a year, and we are still in the dark about your solution's ground clearance and part numbers. Pics, bro. Pics.
But it's only been a few days since your last temper tantrum.

Here's your pacifier.

Now quit being a baby and go back to your garbage bikes made with a garbage attitude.

Every forum you go to, you lose respect and credibility.

Please just slink away in to you pity potty slop hole and grumble about your "precious"

​​​​​​​
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Old 03-28-24, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
But it's only been a few days since your last temper tantrum.

Here's your pacifier.

Now quit being a baby and go back to your garbage bikes made with a garbage attitude.

Every forum you go to, you lose respect and credibility.

Please just slink away in to you pity potty slop hole and grumble about your "precious"
Yeah...ok. You really shouldn't let me get to you like that. Do put me on ignore like you said you would. But didn't. Make good on your previous bluff this time. Or put up pics and part numbers so we can actually carry on a meaningful conversation about the topic at hand. The choice is yours.
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Old 03-28-24, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
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Nice FnHon Monsoon frame. I used to own a Blast in the same polished silver finish.







People used to turn up their noses at Litepro, but now it's become rather accepted and mainstream. Ditto for FnHon. I should know for I was possibly the earliest adopter of both product brands going back to 2016. I told you so.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-28-24 at 04:32 PM.
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