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Largest cassette on a 20" Dahon?

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Largest cassette on a 20" Dahon?

Old 03-28-24, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Nice FnHon Monsoon frame. I used to own a Blast in the same polished silver finish.







People used to turn up their noses at Litepro, but now it's become rather accepted and mainstream. Ditto for FnHon. I should know for I was possibly the earliest adopter of both product brands going back to 2016. I told you so.

Yeah I was thinking of getting a fnhon blast frame (it is ~30% cheaper here)
But people were saying that the Y-frame of the fnhon Monsoon allows for more power transfer

Was considering between the Tyrell (standard diamond frame with standard stem), Twitter f451 (standard diamond frame with folding stem) and the fnhon Monsoon, but decided to go for the Monsoon at 10x cheaper price
I am not joining any race soon, but I do like the idea of having the most optimized folding bike frame possible
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Old 03-28-24, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
Yeah I was thinking of getting a fnhon blast frame (it is ~30% cheaper here)
But people were saying that the Y-frame of the fnhon Monsoon allows for more power transfer

Was considering between the Tyrell (standard diamond frame with standard stem), Twitter f451 (standard diamond frame with folding stem) and the fnhon Monsoon, but decided to go for the Monsoon at 10x cheaper price
I am not joining any race soon, but I do like the idea of having the most optimized folding bike frame possible
Be prepared for tons of questions, not just the normal folding ones, but about the gearing for those who know what they are looking at. I put 2X on my Dahon 20", met a guy (on foot) who has a Burke 20 (titanium folder) with 1X setup, not even equal to my gearing, and he says he hates the derailleur being so low, he took a detailed look at my setup. (This was a couple years ago, and yes, now they have much better rear derailleurs for better ground clearance, I think didn't when his bike was built.)
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Old 03-29-24, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
Yeah I was thinking of getting a fnhon blast frame (it is ~30% cheaper here)
But people were saying that the Y-frame of the fnhon Monsoon allows for more power transfer

Was considering between the Tyrell (standard diamond frame with standard stem), Twitter f451 (standard diamond frame with folding stem) and the fnhon Monsoon, but decided to go for the Monsoon at 10x cheaper price
I am not joining any race soon, but I do like the idea of having the most optimized folding bike frame possible
So many frames have passed through my hands that I forgot that I owned a Monsoon too once. I didn't like the protruding, vulnerable top tube so I sold it new.


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Old 03-29-24, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
So many frames have passed through my hands that I forgot that I owned a Monsoon too once. I didn't like the protruding, vulnerable top tube so I sold it new.


nice color, indonesia seem to have unique products/colors
I've seen folding stems from indonesia that have 31.8mm clamps for more handlebar options

I'm curious. In your opinion, which folding bike frame do you consider the best?

Last edited by vuurmot; 03-29-24 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 03-29-24, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
nice color, indonesia seem to have unique products/colors
I've seen folding stems from indonesia that have 31.8mm clamps for more handlebar options

I'm curious. In your opinion, which folding bike frame do you consider the best?
There's no best, per se. They all have their drawbacks, quirks and compromises. And I consider value and price when gauging the compromises. Many of the bikes discussed on this channel are great, but they are compromised by their high price. But if I had to pick one best, it'd probably be the FSIR Spin 5.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-30-24 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 03-29-24, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
But if I had to pick one best, it'd probably be the FSIR Spin 5.
Those chainstays look stout, but I'm still concerned with no triangulation, although with no place to attach rack stays except the seatpost, that does discourage touring loads. Do the chainstays flex perceptably, to give some ride cushion?

I saw for sale some time back, a very rare bike friday with monostays like the Spin 5, not even sure if production, it had a very low serial number. Almost always on this stuff, the craigslist ad is for Eugene OR, BF's home, so I'm guessing these made it out the back door, or were employee built, that's a fringe benefit, employees can build their own bike.
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Old 03-29-24, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Those chainstays look stout, but I'm still concerned with no triangulation, although with no place to attach rack stays except the seatpost, that does discourage touring loads. Do the chainstays flex perceptably, to give some ride cushion?

I saw for sale some time back, a very rare bike friday with monostays like the Spin 5, not even sure if production, it had a very low serial number. Almost always on this stuff, the craigslist ad is for Eugene OR, BF's home, so I'm guessing these made it out the back door, or were employee built, that's a fringe benefit, employees can build their own bike.
The FSIR Spin 5 has rack eyelets on the chainstays, and seat tube. The chainstays, indeed the whole bike gives no flex. Tight & taut, sorry.



Of course, I wouldn't think of defiling the bike with an eyesore rack.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-30-24 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 03-29-24, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
The FSIR Spin 5 has rack eyelets on the chainstays, chainstay bridge and seat tube. The chainstays, indeed the whole bike gives no flex, sorry.
Good to know. Yeah, it's hard to have chainstays like that with bending flex, without fatigue issues, hard enough with steel, but impossible with aluminum, the latter needs to be designed stiff to be durable. My road race bike is a relatively early aluminum, ultra stiff. Only in later years have I come to understand the appeal of those old handmade lugged steel race frames, in terms of ride.
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Old 03-30-24, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by vuurmot
nice color, indonesia seem to have unique products/colors
I've seen folding stems from indonesia that have 31.8mm clamps for more handlebar options

I'm curious. In your opinion, which folding bike frame do you consider the best?
Now, if you are asking about the FnHon models for 406/451 wheels, of which there are five, the Monsoon, Blast, Tornado, Gust 20" and Storm, I'd have to pick the Storm. But that's because I am partial to steel in these bi-fold frames, the material of the Storm and Gust 20". The great thing about the Storm is that it can be built as as two-wheelset rig with a fat-tire 406 wheelsets that can be swapped out as the need and whim arises to a skinny 451 wheelsets. It's got clearance front and back for both.



The Gust 20" lags the Storm because tire clearance at the fork is limited to around 50-406 while the Storm can take up to 60mm meat upfront.


Gust 20"

In any case, the FnHon framesets are all great value as they, save for the Tornado, can be had for around $150.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-30-24 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 03-30-24, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Now, if you are asking about the FnHon models for 406/451 wheels, of which there are five, the Monsoon, Blast, Tornado, Gust 20" and Storm, I'd have to pick the Storm. But that's because I am partial to steel in these bi-fold frames, the material of the Storm and Gust 20". The great thing about the Storm is that it can be built as as two-wheelset rig with a fat-tire 406 wheelsets that can be swapped out as the need and whim arises to a skinny 451 wheelsets. It's got clearance front and back for both.

The Gust 20" lags the Storm because tire clearance at the fork is limited to around 50-406 while the Storm can take up to 60mm meat upfront.


Gust 20"

In any case, the FnHon framesets are all great value as they, save for the Tornado, can be had for around $150.
Say... that Storm frame looks *very* similar to my 4130 steel Dahon Speed frame, elegantly minimal welds, good in fatigue strength, and in photos online (and yours I now see) it appears to be available with discs. If I tour with long downgrades, I want discs. That might be a good option for me, just switch frames with mine. However, between frame (even at that great price), new wheels for discs, discs, calipers, and levers, I'd be into the same cost as an Origami Bull (aluminum frame) with all of the above and everything else new parts as well, complete. But I'd prefer a 4130 frame.

Do you prefer steel on a bifold for stronger at the hinge when open and more vulnerable?

Last edited by Duragrouch; 03-30-24 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 03-30-24, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Say... that Storm frame looks *very* similar to my 4130 steel Dahon Speed frame, elegantly minimal welds, good in fatigue strength, and in photos online (and yours I now see) it appears to be available with discs. If I tour with long downgrades, I want discs. That might be a good option for me, just switch frames with mine. However, between frame (even at that great price), new wheels for discs, discs, calipers, and levers, I'd be into the same cost as an Origami Bull (aluminum frame) with all of the above and everything else new parts as well, complete. But I'd prefer a 4130 frame.

Do you prefer steel on a bifold for stronger at the hinge when open and more vulnerable?
That Bull has entry-level components. Though you do get a sublime RD and a wide 246% range drivetrain.😂 Building a bike gives you the opportunity to pick every single component. Apples & Orangutans, really..

I prefer steel for should it fail, chances are it won't be catastrophic but rather gradual.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 03-31-24 at 01:42 AM.
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Old 03-30-24, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
That Bull has entry-level components. Though you do get a sublime RD and a wide 246% range drivetrain.😂 Apples & Orangutans, really.

I prefer steel for should it fail, chances are it won't be catastrophic but rather gradual.
I got that joke.

I've been getting by on cheap components for 10 years now, not like my old road bike which was *at least* 105 on everything. The cassette that comes on old Dahons is really junky, incredibly poor attempt at shift ramps, not at all hyperspaceglide. But once I replaced the compact derailleur with a conventional one, it shifts like Campy. My low cost 2X hollow spindle crank with external bearings, been tickled to death by it, for the price of 2 chainrings. Other parts are top quality but got cheap; $80 blackburn rack from nashbar for $20 (the U-lock holder under the deck breaks on all of them, but I never use that). Profile aero bars found cheap used at LBS. Better wheels and hubs would be nice, but I'll put that money toward a new bike with discs.

Smart man, I think you're right about the steel. Even though, 7005 aluminum was a smart development, specifically intended for bikes, the strength of 6061-T6 but not needing post-weld heat-treatment for strength, that costs money, and increased alignment issues. 7005 you just weld and it's done. But I still have a preference for good steel, minimum 4130.
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Old 04-02-24, 03:46 PM
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Just announced by Shimano - an 8 speed low profile derailleur with 11-45T cassettes, using standard hyperglide chains and cable pull.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/essa-u2000/RD-U2000.html

Looks like the simplest upgrade out there for an average 8 speed folder looking for a greater range.
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Old 04-03-24, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Reddleman
Just announced by Shimano - an 8 speed low profile derailleur with 11-45T cassettes, using standard hyperglide chains and cable pull.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/product/component/essa-u2000/RD-U2000.html

Looks like the simplest upgrade out there for an average 8 speed folder looking for a greater range.
Interesting. The parallel linkage looks horizontal, not inclined as has been the case for decades. With inclination, the cassette "slope" should match, or at worst be less steep than the derailleur path. Rather than inclined down when downshifting to the larger cogs, this design may simply swivel down, though that may put the jockey pulley further aft, which may not be a problem as it looks well forward of axle when not wound back. I'd like shimano to show a diagram with down dimension from derailleur mount, on various cogs up to max, that would be easy to measure on actual bike, before buying.
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Old 04-03-24, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Now, if you are asking about the FnHon models for 406/451 wheels, of which there are five, the Monsoon, Blast, Tornado, Gust 20" and Storm, I'd have to pick the Storm. But that's because I am partial to steel in these bi-fold frames, the material of the Storm and Gust 20". The great thing about the Storm is that it can be built as as two-wheelset rig with a fat-tire 406 wheelsets that can be swapped out as the need and whim arises to a skinny 451 wheelsets. It's got clearance front and back for both.

While browsing Alibaba for some v brake adaptors, I saw both Fnhon Storm and Zephyr frames for sale. Has Fnhon changed their frame designs to omit the front luggage mount, or do they hide it better than on the aluminium frames where the mounting block is obvious? I can see that you’ve fitted a luggage block but I can’t see how to do it on the photos posted there.
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Old 04-03-24, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Reddleman
While browsing Alibaba for some v brake adaptors, I saw both Fnhon Storm and Zephyr frames for sale. Has Fnhon changed their frame designs to omit the front luggage mount, or do they hide it better than on the aluminium frames where the mounting block is obvious? I can see that you’ve fitted a luggage block but I can’t see how to do it on the photos posted there.
Kia ora, pai ki te kite i a koe, Reddleman. The answer to your question is that there were earlier generations of the FnHon Storm that lacked the front-block. It's not that the front-block is hidden or removed, but rather that it was missing altogether in earlier incarnations. Chose accordingly and buy wisely.
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Old 04-03-24, 11:33 PM
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Ka pai, looks like I will need to be careful of that factor when shopping, as that’s a necessary feature for me.
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Old 04-04-24, 10:28 PM
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Microshift Advent​​​​​ Super Short with 11-38 9sp.
It's ostensibly a 1x drivetrain but I'm currently experimenting with 2x.

42/34 works but tops out at 71 gear inches. Low end is a nice 16.7 inches (likely a touch higher since I have larger tires than the 1.75" in the calculator)

50/34 works in the smaller (higher) gears but binds when trying to cross-chain 50x32 and 50x38.

May try 46/34 which would give me a 78" top end.
​​

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Old 04-04-24, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by john m flores
Microshift Advent​​​​​ Super Short with 11-38 9sp.
It's ostensibly a 1x drivetrain but I'm currently experimenting with 2x.

42/34 works but tops out at 71 gear inches. Low end is a nice 16.7 inches (likely a touch higher since I have larger tires than the 1.75" in the calculator)

50/34 works in the smaller (higher) gears but binds when trying to cross-chain 50x32 and 50x38.

May try 46/34 which would give me a 78" top end.
​​

I could be wrong, but that derailleur jockey pulley looks too far aft; Not as much of a problem on the big cogs, but on the 11T it means less chain wrap and with that few teeth, it could make a difference in cog and chain wear. Also, because of the "diagonal/slant" linkage, in the current orientation, as the derailleur goes inboard (to larger cogs), it moves the jockey pulley aft; Normally, with the linkage swung more forward, as the linkage moves inward, it moves more down than aft. Very early Campag rear derailleurs had orientation like the pic above; Later derailleurs from everyone incorporated the slant lingage for more consistant vertical spacing between the jockey pulley and the cogs, provided the slope of the freewheel/cassette matches the slant movement angle of the RD. The above RD may not have enough slant angle to match that wide range cassette.

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Old 04-05-24, 12:01 AM
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Which calculator are you using John? I ended up getting some odd figures off Sheldon Brown’s calculator that weren’t replicated elsewhere when I was messing around with small wheels there.

Duragrouch, that particular derailleur is designed for an 11-38T max cassette.
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Old 04-05-24, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I could be wrong, but that derailleur jockey pulley looks too far aft; Not as much of a problem on the big cogs, but on the 11T it means less chain wrap and with that few teeth, it could make a difference in cog and chain wear. Also, because of the "diagonal/slant" linkage, in the current orientation, as the derailleur goes inboard (to larger cogs), it moves the jockey pulley aft; Normally, with the linkage swung more forward, as the linkage moves inward, it moves more down than aft. Very early Campag rear derailleurs had orientation like the pic above; Later derailleurs from everyone incorporated the slant lingage for more consistant vertical spacing between the jockey pulley and the cogs, provided the slope of the freewheel/cassette matches the slant movement angle of the RD. The above RD may not have enough slant angle to match that wide range cassette.
Here's the mech in action


Originally Posted by Reddleman
Which calculator are you using John? I ended up getting some odd figures off Sheldon Brown’s calculator that weren’t replicated elsewhere when I was messing around with small wheels there.
Sheldon Brown's too.
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Old 04-05-24, 12:19 AM
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(above video) I guess that's how that one mounts! Only one I've seen with the parallel linkage almost vertical, except for old vintage Campy. Ooo, I notice that one pivots the cage halfway between the pulleys, I don't think that gives more capacity but may be much shorter, better ground clearance that way.
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Old 04-05-24, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by john m flores
Microshift Advent​​​​​ Super Short with 11-38 9sp.
It's ostensibly a 1x drivetrain but I'm currently experimenting with 2x.
It seems that "downhill" MTB groupset are ideal with 16"/ 20" bike. I do like my ZEEsetup
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Old 04-05-24, 03:54 AM
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At about $60, those Zee RD ain't cheap, but they are good. How much is the Microshift Shorty?
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Old 04-05-24, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
(above video) I guess that's how that one mounts! Only one I've seen with the parallel linkage almost vertical, except for old vintage Campy. Ooo, I notice that one pivots the cage halfway between the pulleys, I don't think that gives more capacity but may be much shorter, better ground clearance that way.
I was scratching my head the while time I was installing it because it was so odd - like no other derailleur I've worked on before. This is on a hanger that I just bent back into place, so you comments prompted me to re-check my work. The right dropout is maybe 0.5mm wider then the left, so I bent it to match and reinstalled the derailleur. It's probably in my head but it looks less vertical.

Originally Posted by Fentuz
It seems that "downhill" MTB groupset are ideal with 16"/ 20" bike. I do like my ZEEsetup
Advent Super Short is actually targeted at youth riders on smaller bikes.

Originally Posted by Ron Damon
At about $60, those Zee RD ain't cheap, but they are good. How much is the Microshift Shorty?
About the same. It's unfortunate that it's not compatible with Shimano 9-speed.
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