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DIY Mini velo

Old 02-01-24, 07:16 PM
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I'd bet that rear derailleur cage would rub against the rear tire when shift into that big cog.
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Old 02-02-24, 04:13 AM
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any idea of the weight of the nano? Looking hard at the one on bd. Thanks and great riding !
Originally Posted by 3speedslow
All I want you to do before you commit to this project is to look at both sides. Itís like before you engineer solve the problem, you reverse engineer the solution.

now I know you are in Canada, seems to be an expensive location. Personally, I would buy a ready made MV bike or frame then build as I want.

Mercier Nano is my go to.

As bought

Many mods

Recent mods
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Old 02-02-24, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Thanks.

The cogset is an 11-40T which has been shown to work in real practice with the short-cage Shimano Zee RD-M640-SS RD. I can be pushed still to 42T no problem. Note also the higher profile 58-305 tires.


Wow, 40T on a 305? Well that's encouraging to me if I ever need a lower-low on my 406. (Since I already have a 2X crank, it would seem more efficient to do a 3X, but I don't want a mountain crank, and I can't seem to find a road 3X with 50/34 plus a granny low, especially in hollowtech II style, which I love.) I agree with your low gearing, I have about the same on mine now, but don't know if I'll need lower still if touring. Do us a favor and post a pic after the chain is on, I'm wondering about chain clearance as it crosses the tire, when on the big cog. Thanks.
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Old 02-02-24, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Wow, 40T on a 305? Well that's encouraging to me if I ever need a lower-low on my 406. (Since I already have a 2X crank, it would seem more efficient to do a 3X, but I don't want a mountain crank, and I can't seem to find a road 3X with 50/34 plus a granny low, especially in hollowtech II style, which I love.) I agree with your low gearing, I have about the same on mine now, but don't know if I'll need lower still if touring. Do us a favor and post a pic after the chain is on, I'm wondering about chain clearance as it crosses the tire, when on the big cog. Thanks.
It's not a clearance issue, it's a weight issue.

You no longer need brakes because the derailleur is so low, you just wait for a tree root and it'll act like a tail hook!
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Old 02-04-24, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
It's not a clearance issue, it's a weight issue.

You no longer need brakes because the derailleur is so low, you just wait for a tree root and it'll act like a tail hook!
That happened to me after my 2X conversion, fortunately I was only going a couple miles an hour, maneuvering around a sandbag, just one loose thread sticking up, snagged the rear derailleur and brought me to a stop in a hurry, no damage, foot on pedals so chain tension kept derailleur in place. But I don't want to go any lower RD than it is now.
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Old 02-04-24, 05:11 AM
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WOW:

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Old 02-04-24, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
I'd bet that rear derailleur cage would rub against the rear tire when shift into that big cog.
Why should it?

If you do not like a bike, just move on. No one says you have to like every bike here. Just ask how close does the chain come to the tire - just ask, because you cannot know.

As for things about the derailleur, you have no idea relative to what conditions he rides. I have clipped my derailleur on my 24" and 26" and 700 wheels, because there is always something big enough to hit it, somewhere.
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Old 02-04-24, 09:32 AM
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Did I say that I don't like it? Did I say that I'm not sure?
Whether I like it or not, I know the chain will not clear the rear derailleur when the chain is in the largest cog.
Easy to prove me wrong if OP just post a picture with chain on the largest cog and read derailleur position.
The question is not whether rear derailleur would clip something while riding,
but whether the rear derailleur cage & chain would even clear the rear tire when shift into the largest cog.
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Old 02-04-24, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
the rear derailleur would need a pretty long cage to be able to shift between the small cog and large cog.
​​​​​​..you believe that cage length is determined by cassette range or vice versa? Wow! I have SRAM X9 derailleurs in short, mid and long. They all clear max cassette size of 11-40. It's to pick up slack from double front.
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Old 02-04-24, 11:54 AM
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The difference is how much length you have in the chain stays of the frame,
16" wheels frames is not going to have enough distance between bottom bracket & rear derailleur to allow (even short cage) to clear the rear tire (or rim).
Again, easy enough to prove me wrong is the OP just post a picture of the rear derailleur and chain in the largest cog in place.
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Old 02-04-24, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
The difference is how much length you have in the chain stays of the frame,
16" wheels frames is not going to have enough distance between bottom bracket & rear derailleur to allow (even short cage) to clear the rear tire (or rim).
Again, easy enough to prove me wrong is the OP just post a picture of the rear derailleur and chain in the largest cog in place.
The picture is already posted in the Zee thread, the tire is clear, the rim would be clear if the chain was shortened to the shortest possible. I run a similar setup with a 50mm wide rim with a 57-305 tire - stretched out to 67mm, and only at the most inner cog the chain would touch the tire - far away from what you'd bet on here

Last edited by splithub; 02-04-24 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 02-04-24, 01:17 PM
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Pictures have no chain installed on the 16" wheeled bike, do you see a chain going through the rear derailleur cage?
If you have the same setup, post a picture of your rear derailleur in the 40T rear cog configuration.

Last edited by cat0020; 02-04-24 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 02-04-24, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by cat0020
Pictures have no chain installed on the 16" wheeled bike, do you see a chain going through the rear derailleur cage?
If you have the same setup, post a picture of your rear derailleur in the 40T rear cog configuration.
Yeah, well, sorry... I know it's difficult to understand "..in the Zee thread" You expect people to take pictures while refusing to look up what is already there. I'm frequently amazed how others see this coming and ignore it right away.

Last edited by splithub; 02-04-24 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 02-04-24, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by splithub
Yeah, well, sorry... I know it's difficult to understand "..in the Zee thread" You expect people to take pictures while refusing to look up what is already there. I'm frequently amazed how OP sees this coming and ignores right away.
I didn't claim that it would work like you did.
You claim that it works, burden is on you to show evidence, not me to look up evidence for you.
No evidence, you're just full of BS.
Ignore me doesn't make your claim any more valid.
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Old 02-05-24, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by splithub
​​​​​​..you believe that cage length is determined by cassette range or vice versa? Wow! I have SRAM X9 derailleurs in short, mid and long. They all clear max cassette size of 11-40. It's to pick up slack from double front.
Uh, sort of. Please don't flame me. If you say a short cage will work on 11-40, I believe you. Technically, the derailleur cage is based on the total variation in "length" (not actually chain length, but the ability to take up any slack), meaning TOTAL variation for both cogs and/or chainrings, and if a multi chainring, from small/small to big/big combos (chainring/cog), assuming you want capability of all gear combinations. Now, that since at both ends, the chain is actually only wrapped around about 180 degrees of the chainring and cog, you would think this would be calculated using only the teeth of that actual variation, however, the derailleur manufacturers have made it easy on mechanics and consumers, by rating the derailleur total capacity, by complete (360 degree) teeth numbers. So for example, for 50/34 11-30, I have 16 teeth difference in front, PLUS 19 teeth difference in back, so I need a rear derailleur with 35 teeth total capacity minimum. That's capacity. The same capacity would be needed for a 1X system running 11-46, 35 teeth difference. There's another term, can't think of it, that says how much variation in teeth of the cassette (only), that the derailleur can accommodate, and that relates to the slope of the derailleur linkage in relation to the "slope" across the cogs. Think about the difference in that slope between an old "corncob/straight-block(?)" cassette versus a modern 1X 11-50; A good slope match means you don't have too much gap between the jockey pulley and cogs (less precise shifting), nor ram the jockey pulley into any cogs. Speaking of which... I think there is one more parameter, that rates a rear derailleur based on maximum cog size, based on the position the derailleur hangs on the hanger, and the slope of movement, so the jockey pulley doesn't just ram into the lower cog(s), because it can't go down further.

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-05-24 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 02-05-24, 05:55 AM
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My earlier post re deal on Mercier mini-velo: I wondered where produced, guessed asia, found an article, since 2000 have been outsourced to asia, but production is returning to france (article circa 2021). My guess is the great deal from bikesdirect is old stock from asia, but maybe not, ad says "2024 Nano". Anyway, here's the article:

https://capovelo.com/the-cycles-merc...ion-in-french/
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Old 02-05-24, 09:22 AM
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If Mercier decides to build the Nano in France, I can't imagine it being sold for $399 or even $499 with free shipping. I am very well pleased with my Chinese Nano and I hope it will be available to others in the future.
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Old 02-05-24, 12:55 PM
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Pre-pandemic, the Bikes Direct mini bike was a $250 bike, which was a steal, almost worth it for the frame alone.
At $400 it's.... eeeeh, really not worth it.
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Old 02-06-24, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Pre-pandemic, the Bikes Direct mini bike was a $250 bike, which was a steal, almost worth it for the frame alone.
At $400 it's.... eeeeh, really not worth it.
Yeah I was kinda taken in by the brand name, but reviews online say the quality is so-so, paint not great and very easily chipped, heavy crank (and 52/42 instead of 50/34, why I don't know), friction shifters (which I can get by with but I see no reason the right shifter does not come as index (with friction selection option), it's the rule not the exeption these days, should be cheap). I'm still sticking with my folder, though it's a bear hauling up stairs (due to racks and pannier weight and loads). If I commuted with a bike and needed to haul up stairs, the high top bar on the Nano, over the shoulder with a pad there, would be an easier carry. If gotten on sale at $300, the Zizzo Liberte still seems the best deal I have seen, followed by the Origami Bull with disc brakes at $500 sale price. I'd 2X crank them both.
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Old 02-06-24, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Yeah I was kinda taken in by the brand name, but reviews online say the quality is so-so, paint not great and very easily chipped, heavy crank (and 52/42 instead of 50/34, why I don't know), friction shifters (which I can get by with but I see no reason the right shifter does not come as index (with friction selection option), it's the rule not the exeption these days, should be cheap). I'm still sticking with my folder, though it's a bear hauling up stairs (due to racks and pannier weight and loads). If I commuted with a bike and needed to haul up stairs, the high top bar on the Nano, over the shoulder with a pad there, would be an easier carry. If gotten on sale at $300, the Zizzo Liberte still seems the best deal I have seen, followed by the Origami Bull with disc brakes at $500 sale price. I'd 2X crank them both.
My Nano was purchased new and it came to me with indexed shifting on the right. Also, I have had the bike for 3 years and the black finish is still flawless. I'm not saying it is the best bike money can buy but I do think it sometimes gets knocked unfairly.
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Old 02-06-24, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GeezyRider
My Nano was purchased new and it came to me with indexed shifting on the right. Also, I have had the bike for 3 years and the black finish is still flawless. I'm not saying it is the best bike money can buy but I do think it sometimes gets knocked unfairly.
Good to know, thanks. I mentioned both the Nano and Liberte to someone today, they live in a small room like me and could use a bike to go to work and back, only a couple miles at most. I said the Nano with top tube had the advantage to sling over shoulder (with a pad there) when climbing stairs, the Liberte for folding.
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Old 02-07-24, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Good to know, thanks. I mentioned both the Nano and Liberte to someone today, they live in a small room like me and could use a bike to go to work and back, only a couple miles at most. I said the Nano with top tube had the advantage to sling over shoulder (with a pad there) when climbing stairs, the Liberte for folding.
If any consideration is given to weight, I have a Liberte as well (pictured in my avatar) and it is about 3 lbs. lighter than my Nano. On the other hand, I find the Nano more comfortable (for me) on longer rides.
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Old 02-08-24, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GeezyRider
If any consideration is given to weight, I have a Liberte as well (pictured in my avatar) and it is about 3 lbs. lighter than my Nano. On the other hand, I find the Nano more comfortable (for me) on longer rides.
Thanks for the info. Less of a consideration than the difference between either of those and an e-bike which he had been considering, most at close to 2X the weight or more, and stairs with no elevator. Since his route is pretty flat, I recommended a mini of some sort. He's not a serious biker, he smokes, but the ride is not far, just a bit too far for walking in decent time.
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Old 02-11-24, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Careful, that derailleur looks pretty close to the ground.

Good thing you didn't post it with the chain on.
Chain or no chain, people who live in glass houses really ought not to throw stones.

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Old 02-11-24, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Damon
Chain or no chain, people who live in glass houses really ought not to throw stones.

That's not a 16" rear wheel nor 58t chainring nor a mid cage rear derailleur.
You're wrecking your own glass house.

Last edited by cat0020; 02-11-24 at 06:59 PM.
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