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Wanted Brompnot- aka Brompton clone

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Wanted Brompnot- aka Brompton clone

Old 02-14-24, 12:24 AM
  #101  
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[QUOTE=Etzu;23156310]
Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I looked on amazon at the Alps: (and is there another different clone? You didn't mention the brand.)
[\QUOTE]

IGOGOMI ​​​​​​​
Thanks, appears to be the same brand. I've seen that brand before in the past few days, can't recall where.

See my revisions to previous post, the Alps is a pass, they left out one of THE primo advantages of the Brompton.
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Old 02-14-24, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
I looked on amazon at the Alps: (and is there another different clone? You didn't mention the brand.)
Likes:
- Good price; Electric at $1299, black, 7 speeds, and $909 if I join prime(!). Red one "used - very good", but only 3 speeds, $899. Brompton C-Line electric is $3700.
- Disc brakes, that is something not offered on Brompton.
- Telescoping stem, with (M?) type forward and aft swinging handlebars.
- 7 speed IGH probably means 130 or 135mm OLD in back, so much easier and cheaper to find replacement hub or wheel, versus Brompton's b@stard-size of 110mm.

What I don't like:
- EDIT: IT TRIFOLDS LEFT, DOESN'T ENVELOP THE DRIVETRAIN AND CHAIN!!
- Front hub for motor and disc brakes, is radially spoked, that is bad. The rear wheel is 1X spoking, but the front carries even greater torque under braking. Brompton uses 0X front spoking but splayed to better transmit torque to rim.
- Batteries inside frame, just behind hinge; If there is a battery fire, it easily destroys the aluminum frame. Much better would be to do like Brompton and have the battery in a small bag that clips to the front carrier, or a fixed battery on the back side of the seat tube. But bagging the battery allows you to sling that over your shoulder and split up the load when carrying the bike up stairs.

I'd like to know what non-electric price is.
I kinda liked the hidden battery. The left fold while not hiding the chain is not that big of a concern if you're right handed. Is the issue with being dirty or to protect it?

I guess I'm not as familiar with bicycles as I am with motorcycles but can you ELI5 the spoke and wheel issue?

I should take it for a spin I've had it since Thanksgiving and haven't ridden it much other than that first day.

I did buy 2 real Bromptons since though. A 3spd IGH and I just bought a 2spd external yesterday.

It was too good of a deal and it was an H bar. The 3spd is an M and maybe I'm old but it was a bear to pedal.
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Old 02-14-24, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Etzu
...

I guess I'm not as familiar with bicycles as I am with motorcycles but can you ELI5 the spoke and wheel issue?

....
Same basic mechanics in motorcycles too. Have you ever seen a spoke disc brake motorcycle wheel laced radially? With disc brakes the hub needs to transfer torque to the rim via the spokes. Therefore the spokes beef to be tangential to the force applied to reduce their bending. A radially laced wheel will have bend and weaken the spokes till failure.

Here's an example of an acceptable spoke lacing, a two-cross pattern, on an ISO305 disc brake wheel.

Two-cross

Last edited by Ron Damon; 02-14-24 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 02-14-24, 12:38 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Etzu
I kinda liked the hidden battery. The left fold while not hiding the chain is not that big of a concern if you're right handed. Is the issue with being dirty or to protect it?

I guess I'm not as familiar with bicycles as I am with motorcycles but can you ELI5 the spoke and wheel issue?

I should take it for a spin I've had it since Thanksgiving and haven't ridden it much other than that first day.

I did buy 2 real Bromptons since though. A 3spd IGH and I just bought a 2spd external yesterday.

It was too good of a deal and it was an H bar. The 3spd is an M and maybe I'm old but it was a bear to pedal.
I like hidden batteries too, except lithium ions, which, while not often, can catch fire and burn with extreme heat. It's why Boeing had to put their backup electrical batteries (large) in a steel (heavy, undesirable in an aircraft) box (not aluminum) after a couple of fires, on the ground, thankfully.

Maybe I meant the H bar, I was thinking shaped like an M, not High/Medium/Low.

Trifold over the chain is a huge advantage; When packed in a bag or in a trunk or stood up between luggage on a train, it's doesn't shed oil on everything. Andrew Ritchie really sweated the details on the frame design.

To transmit high torque between the hub and rim, the spokes need to be anything but radial; They can cross at a high angle, or cross at a lower angle (usually necessary for a very large hub and a small rim size), and they can even not cross at all, as long as the spokes are at an angle (leading and trailing) to transmit the torque. Front wheel, rim brakes, you can get away with radial spoking. Front wheel with disc brakes, and most especially with a hub motor, so fully reversing, high torque, radial spoking is BAD. From Sheldon Brown website:

Radial Spoking
Bicycle Wheel Spoking Patterns For Large Hubs

From Radial Spoking:
Drive wheels and wheels with hub brakes should never be radially spoked. Due to the near-perpendicular angle of the spoke to the hub's tangent, any torque applied at the hub of a radial-spoked wheel will result in a very great increase in spoke tension, almost certainly causing hub or spoke failure.

[Yet another note from John Allen: I have seen such a wheel. To protect the guilty, I will not say who built it. No, it wasn't Sheldon. A friend and I inspected the bike. He held the front brake and pushed down on a pedal with his foot. The spokes of the rear wheel changed angle noticeably, pinging as they rotated in the spoke holes of the hub, and ringing with rising musical pitch like an electric guitar when the player pulls up on the tremolo bar.]

Last edited by Duragrouch; 02-14-24 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 02-14-24, 01:09 AM
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It was cheap. Got it off a local market place post. Figured why not
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Old 02-14-24, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Etzu
It was cheap. Got it off a local market place post. Figured why not
(almost) "Free, take. Cost money, no want." - Duke Kahanamoku
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Old 02-18-24, 11:39 PM
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General Brompton question, someone said it is their choice for heavy touring loads.

From what I've read, IGHs like on most Bromptons, don't like heavy cargo or drive loads. And that just raised a question in my mind: Does the Brompton rear hub (6 speed, with 2 sprockets), have the right (drive side) bearings just inside the right dropout like a freehub, or way further in like old freewheel setups (more bending load on axle)? If the latter, that could be one of the reasons. And are the wheel bearings lubed by the gear lube, or grease? Lastly, any weakness in the various internal gear "bushings"? (My guess is none are ball-bearing, nor bronze bushing, but hardened steel gears on hardened steel pins.) Thanks in advance.
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Old 02-19-24, 07:49 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
General Brompton question, someone said it is their choice for heavy touring loads.

From what I've read, IGHs like on most Bromptons, don't like heavy cargo or drive loads. And that just raised a question in my mind: Does the Brompton rear hub (6 speed, with 2 sprockets), have the right (drive side) bearings just inside the right dropout like a freehub, or way further in like old freewheel setups (more bending load on axle)? If the latter, that could be one of the reasons. And are the wheel bearings lubed by the gear lube, or grease? Lastly, any weakness in the various internal gear "bushings"? (My guess is none are ball-bearing, nor bronze bushing, but hardened steel gears on hardened steel pins.) Thanks in advance.
In my opinion cargo loads are not a problem or have been. I have been riding IGH for years. Standard Stormeys AWS just went and went. The only real issues for touring on a Brompton are issues of riding on 349 wheels.
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Old 02-19-24, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
The only real issues for touring on a Brompton are issues of riding on 349 wheels.
With more handlebar and stem options right now, it is easier to tune the handlebar height. After I made it match that for my full-size bike, the Brompton began riding for me much closer to the latter bike than before.
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Old 02-19-24, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
General Brompton question, someone said it is their choice for heavy touring loads.

From what I've read, IGHs like on most Bromptons, don't like heavy cargo or drive loads. And that just raised a question in my mind: Does the Brompton rear hub (6 speed, with 2 sprockets), have the right (drive side) bearings just inside the right dropout like a freehub, or way further in like old freewheel setups (more bending load on axle)? If the latter, that could be one of the reasons. And are the wheel bearings lubed by the gear lube, or grease? Lastly, any weakness in the various internal gear "bushings"? (My guess is none are ball-bearing, nor bronze bushing, but hardened steel gears on hardened steel pins.) Thanks in advance.
Originally Posted by 2_i
With more handlebar and stem options right now, it is easier to tune the handlebar height. After I made it match that for my full-size bike, the Brompton began riding for me much closer to the latter bike than before.
Post a pic, please. I have had a Kipp quick release on mine for years.
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Old 02-20-24, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
Post a pic, please. I have had a Kipp quick release on mine for years.
Can you show your solution?

As to my side, while I have the Brompton with me, I am away from my base for a few days more and lack the reference of my regular bike or even a longer measurement tape. In any case, a relatively complete breakdown of what one gets by combining available stems and handlebars can be found in this thread. For old/new combinations, one should open the quoted message by ThornstenB, and for new/new there is a table by Juliane. Translations from German are required. I combined an old M stem with a new M handlebar to get my fit.
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Old 02-20-24, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
Can you show your solution?
Not a solution to height. Quick release to adjust bars fore and aft. Kipp makes a strong clamp.
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Old 02-21-24, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
Quick release to adjust bars fore and aft. Kipp makes a strong clamp.
Could you comment on that adjustment? I was pondering the angle as I was putting the new handlebar on but I was not sure where to go with this. Any tidbit could be useful. Do you adjust every time you start riding, to go beyond what the fold allows for?
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Old 02-21-24, 09:19 AM
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Pop the cam on the front of the handle and move the bars fore or aft. Snap the handle back down. The handle is Al. The threaded part is SS. The knurled nut was from my parts bin. The part is from Zoro, and it is made by Kipp. Should you be interested, I will get you the size.
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Old 02-21-24, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
Pop the cam on the front of the handle and move the bars fore or aft. Snap the handle back down. The handle is Al. The threaded part is SS. The knurled nut was from my parts bin. The part is from Zoro, and it is made by Kipp. Should you be interested, I will get you the size.
Thanks! Yes, I would be interested in the size and in trying this out even if for the sake of eventually settling on one angle.
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Old 02-22-24, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
Thanks! Yes, I would be interested in the size and in trying this out even if for the sake of eventually settling on one angle.
OK, the size of the bolt is 6x25. Get the stainless one.

I would have settled on one angle and went back to the Brompton bolt (7mm) but there is only one angle for tightest fold. So if I need to fold it to minimize the folded width, I have to release the quick release to do it. That was required for fitting into B&W case.

This one would work, but it is 5mm longer than you need, but you could cut it down.

Interestingly, the end of the bolt at the lever is slotted for a plain screwdriver like a set screw, so there is some adjustment from that end as well. I just now noticed this.
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Old 02-22-24, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
OK, the size of the bolt is 6x25. Get the stainless one.
Not my forte, the bike itself, but that spec doesn't look right; SAE (english) threads go by threads per inch, so I could see 25. Metric threads go by pitch (for one thread), so would be way lower for an M6. I thought perhaps a decimal missing, but I don't see a 2.5 pitch for M6, I think it should be 1.0 or 0.75mm, no? 6mm x 25 threads per inch may be exactly correct, but a funny way of specifying it. EDIT: Oh, unless you mean 25mm length, any thread pitch. Nevermind.
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Old 02-22-24, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch
Not my forte, the bike itself, but that spec doesn't look right; SAE (english) threads go by threads per inch, so I could see 25. Metric threads go by pitch (for one thread), so would be way lower for an M6. I thought perhaps a decimal missing, but I don't see a 2.5 pitch for M6, I think it should be 1.0 or 0.75mm, no? 6mm x 25 threads per inch may be exactly correct, but a funny way of specifying it. EDIT: Oh, unless you mean 25mm length, any thread pitch. Nevermind.
25 mm is the length
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Old 02-22-24, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
25 mm is the length
Yeah, sorry, my brain is so programmed from so many years on the job, diameter, pitch, length, in that order, that until the end, I couldn't see that.
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