I looked for trifold bikes on Amazon and could find any. They DO have Bromptons (yay) but I can't find this 349 trifold. Anyone have a link? I would rather order from Amazon because of speed/return policy/trustworthy so if there are any decent Brompton copies I'd love to check one out!

9-speed derailleur gearing, 29-75 gear inches. Mechanical discs.

22 lbs

$1K + shipping

https://usa.dahon.com/collections/bi...39758277640381

$999 😂
No front block. 😂😂
1.5" max tire 😂😂😂

Why would one suggest and pay $999 for this when one can get, say, an Or!gam! L0tus for half the price?

To the OP: I'd take a few of the suggestions here with a sack of salt. Several of the channel gurus have outdated and/or parochial knowledge of the segment. Caveat emptor.

Pretty much a run-of-the-mill 20" Dahon in one airline 'legal' suitcase (packing/padding not shown for clarity):


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...612a8abc19.gif

Images like this can be found on the internet and have been posted on this forum several times over the years.

My bad - I missed the OP's post about luggage carrying and minimum tire width.

Uh, which post was that, Ron?

:roflmao2:

Ouch, the 1.5" is a deal kill for me. The no front block has work arounds.

There was none. But you ought to be wise enough to take that and other factors into consideration when making suggestions, rather than giving to your Dahon cult-like affection. Particularly to those who may be less knowledge in search of a folding bike. Fortunately there are knowledgeable folks here who are not captives of the Dahon cult to keep you honest.

Hmm, I no longer see on amazon. They were there briefly. I guess Brompton dropped the hammer on them, not due to patents, which have long since expired, but perhaps threatening to withdraw Brompton sales from the site. I won't buy a clone unless it is no more than 1/3 the price of Brompton for same features (speeds), and they were, at $700 for a 6-speed, but shipping from asia was over $300, but not on amazon, which made it viable. My guess is, someone will start selling them and with free shipping, not as good as amazon's guarantees and safety in dealing with, but may suffice. I will look now on a web search, not just amazon...

EDIT: This article features a number of clones and links:
https://www.foldingwheels.com/does-b...e-look-alikes/

I remember Ron claiming this back in December, at the same time he said a frame with cantilever mounts and a frame with disc mounts were the same frame. (???)

But has the Dahon K3+ 1.5" max width been verified?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...be9b236315.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...542296031e.png

This limitation of the Dahon K3+ has been known for several months in this channel since I first highlighted and provided proof of it from an actual owner. Nothing new.

Yes, it has. With images and testimony from an actual owner. It is up to you to search for the post on this channel, particularly since you were a participant on that thread and were made aware of it. You either have a poor memory or a very partial one.

Question - do you need to fold the bike before carrying it up the stairs? I prefer to carry my Zizzo Liberté unfolded - I can pick it up by the main tube and have the nose of the saddle rest on my shoulder, mini cyclocross style.
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That's good advice. I also carry my Speed up unfolded, but the weight is crazy with my panniers and a shopping load. I currently lift by the seatstay mostly, handlepost less but need a good rotational grip there to keep the wheel straight with front pannier shopping load. I'm gonna try your technique, see if my seat nose is in the right position to do that, I run my seat pretty high for my height, that may not give me enough lift height. My current seat appears to have a designed in lift-nose. Once before I tried fitting a clip-on shoulder strap, but it didn't work great.

I reckon the additional weight of a Linkglide cogset and RD would add about 150 grams to your already heavy load. This is roughly the equivalent of two eggs. Maybe we should start calling you Lightgrouch instead? Or you should seek weight savings elsewhere? Let's try to keep it real, bro, if just one bit. Remember that durability and weight can be two sides of the same coin, and that there is still no free lunch.
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I think you think I am contesting your assertion that my bike is overweight, and I am not.

I like durability. I was less complaining about the additional Linkglide weight, as much as wondering *why* it was heavier; Simply reducing the chain shock loads on existing Hyperglide (with the same tooth mods) should do the same. And I think that is correct. I think Linkglide is heavier for reasons besides the chain loading, and that is a) a low-cost, bombproof cassette (in some cases by removing the aluminum inboard carrier), and b) a heavy duty industrial/commercial strength rear derailleur, both for e-bike applications where weight is far less of a factor. I think this is a smart move on Shimano's part, to grab a large portion, if not the majority share, of the mid-drive e-bike market, at prices that can compete with brand-x junk, while offering superior durability. I think the other majors have abandoned the low-end market in favor of high margins, and Shimano saw an opportunity there and went for it. A win for them, a win for the market.

But for conventional non-ebike applications, Linkglide may be overkill, sort of. Less shifting shock-load is always better. My guess is, the features that provide that benefit, which do not require more mass, will be incorporated onto the rest of Shimano's line, from Dura-Ace down to Altus, or any lines that still exist after skynet becomes self-aware, so to speak.

No, I do not think that you are contesting that your bike is overweight for it is plainly visible that it is, and you have implicitly admitted it. Instead, I am contesting your judgment about relative weight in light of your ostensible regard for durability and the counter-intuituve heavy loads with which you burden and strain the durability of the components on your bike. Other people's components are heavy, but your own bike is immune from such a judgment. But you can rest easy for you are in good company. This channel is notorious for finding fault with the lower end, less expensive, high value bikes and components while remaining silent on the drawbacks and faults of the outrageously priced bikes. You are right at home, buddy.

No, you misunderstood my comment intentions. I agree, the additional weight on my bike is fly specks in pepper.

My original questions were attempting to ask more for the general market, not just my own selfish interest.

Again, I was seeking to figure out why the components were heavier. And I think, the reasons have nothing to do with lowering chain shock loads. I could be wrong, but I think that is due to some tooth-profile magic that Shimano has done for Linkglide. They have a history of being good at such stuff.

If I'm correct, the additional weight has to do with making cassettes and rear derailleurs for the ebike market, that are commercial-strength strong, at low cost. And I think that is due to full-radial depth on most of the big cogs, no aluminum carrier, and more steel rivets holding all the cogs together, and an RD that is beefed up to "taxi-level" duty-cycles, both in terms of lateral stiffness for shifting, and just plain stronger to stand up to rental use and abuse. My guess, and only a guess, is those criteria may have been more influenced by the rental bike market than just private e-bikes, as "downtime costs money". The fringe benefit is this also helps private bike owners, who are not going to be lifting their e-bikes either, unless onto a car rack, and most probably will get help to do that.

Understanding true reasons matter, especially in this case of the parts being used on a manual bike. Again, my guess is, the high-load shifting improvements will make their way onto lighter components intended for manual bikes, I think it's all in minor mods to the cog teeth. I don't think Shimano will abandon the manual bike market, despite the flood toward ebikes. They, and many other Japanese companies, have tried to be full-service suppliers to all levels of a market, and that is smart. (When Ford announced a couple years ago that they would not sell cars, only the more profitable trucks and sport-utes, I thought that was a very short-sighted decision, and I think one that may have been reversed, from what I can see of their current line.) Conversely, other bike component makers we know of, I think have abandoned the low-end market; Sachs threw in the towel long ago by selling to SRAM, and over time SRAM seems to have let the low-end market whither for them.

USA companies live and die on profit statements and share price. Japanese companies, from what I have seen over the decades, live and die on *market share*. I'm not a recent flagwaver for Shimano, I don't personally like the aesthetics of their components in recent decades. But darnit, their stuff *works*, even the cheap stuff.

Will the real Duragrouch please stand up, please stand up.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7314544eb1.jpg

I'm going to be another recommendation for the Zizzo Liberte. Claimed 23 pounds, and while the fold isn't as slick as the Brompton, it holds together OK with magnets for carrying. And IME (having owned both) it rides better. Better yet, it's about $400 new, or less used (folding bike resale is terrible).

That it is!

Brompton is the exception: high new price but also high resale price and high demand for used Brompton.

Which is crazy, now that they are no longer in short supply. A LBS and REI have plenty in stock in any color your want. Plus Brompton will now sell you one and ship to your door. And Amazon. I used to see Bromptons selling for over list, than near list, and most especially the way overpriced special editions with two-tone frame. Now they just sit on craigslist forever unsold.

The reason why Brompton resale price is high is not due to availability but to the fact that its very reliable and that even used daily, all year, whatever the weather, it last very long. 10, 15 even 20 years old Brompton still do the job.

The many special editions is a way for Brompton to drastically increase the margin and make much more money since there are buyers stupid enough to pay any price for a special edition. Since Butler-Adams became CEO, Brompton is a profit only driven company, the spirit of Andrew Ritchie who wanted to make a bike to help people move/commute is gone since a very long time.

Of course availability is a price factor. Not at the low end, but at the high end; You have a brand new, zero wear, with-warranty Brompton M6, selling for... let's say $2000, in stock, ready to buy. Why would *ANYONE* pay $2000 for a used model of the same bike, even if claimed as "new condition? It lacks warranty. Now consider ones that are in good shape, but used, and to what extent you really don't know, if they have taken care of the appearance. How much would you pay? $1800? $1600? Again, NEW Bromptons are available, no shortage.

My general rule on something used that can accumulate wear and zero warranty, I will not exceed 50% new price, and that's if it is in *pristine* condition.

Keep in mind as well, any bike with an Internal Gear Hub, you are rolling the dice buying used. That's what depresses the prices on used Bike Fridays with Dual Drive. Our local nationally-renowned IGH specialist shop recommends, at new, a teardown and adding additional lube for all IGHs that rely on internal grease, given our very rainy winters. (This does not apply to Rohloffs that have great seals and internal oil bath lube.) Brompton Sturmey-Archer hubs are greased internals. I don't know how good the seals are. If no better than Shimano, they need additional marine grease protection at the outer bearings as an additional water barrier.

The only question in my mind, is would I pay $1000 for a fairly used Brompton, or $700 for a welded chrome-moly brompnot with S/A IGH hub same as Brompton, brand new, in the box? I'm tilting toward the new brompnot, if I don't have to pay $300 shipping, just buy at the beginning of an Asian credit-card tour, then fly back with it.

I am sorry to say that this story about IGH is pure ********!

You always refer to this guy without any own experience with any IGH.

I do not know what is the real knowledge of this "nationally-renowed IGH specialist" but what he publish on his website doesn't match the experience of thousand of bike-shops selling and maintaining bikes with IGH since decades. Some pictures on a website doesn't demonstrate anything, its always possible to find some problematic products for any kind of product.

For Brompton, which is the topic of the discusssion, Brompton produces more than 50000 bikes per year most of them with an IGH without any problem, there are very few negative feedback of user about the Sturmey Archer IGH.

There are negative feedback about about the previous SRAM but mainly about the lack of availability of spare parts due to the fact that SRAM decided to stop all the IGH activity without any measure to ensure the after sale support of the many SRAM IGH sold. This is also the reason why bikes (not only Bike Friday) with the SRAM Dual Drive are difficult to sell. SRAM has a very back track record in after sale support of discontinued products.

In Europe, especially in countries where many people use their bike daily and for which their bike is their main means of transport., people prefer bikes with IGH because they are more reliable and require much less maintenance than bikes with derailleur.

I have a Rohloff mounted on a tandem bike which is now 12 year old with a lot of km on it without any other maintenance than oil change about once a year and replacement of its cog. There are many examples of Rohloff with more than 100000km on them, its the only bike component I know that last so many km.

Enviolo is less reliable but its a very special IGH with a continuously variable belt gearbox inside.