Help for a folder neophyte
 

I recently started a new job that requires a 50 minute drive each way. With gas prices heading up, I have been investigating utilizing a combination of train and bicycle as an alternative. The vital statistics for me and my ride are

Height: 5'8"
Weight: 170 lbs.
Length of ride: 4.5 miles
Type of ride: Relatively flat, low-traffic, paved road
Train: Amtrak (sans bike rack)

Despite a lot of research, I could still use some advice on the following:

Make -- I think that I've narrowed my choices down to Dahon (Espresso, Jack, and Speed) and Strida. I like the purported ease of use and maintenance of the Strida, and in terms of train storage, the form factor when folded appears to be superior to the Dahon. However, I'm concerned about the 16" wheels and the current lack of US distributor. Which leads to...

Wheel size -- It looks as if most people recommend the 20" wheels. I find myself drawn to the 26" bikes, however, based on my conception that the biked leg of my commute will be easier with larger wheels and a 26" bike would be more feasible for longer rides. But, then I have to balance that with my concerns about...

Folded size -- As far as I have been able to discern, the Amtrak guidelines for folded bikes are pretty vague. I have a fear that some overzealous official will refuse to let me take a 26" on the train, leaving me stranded 50 miles from home. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Range -- It's hard to find good information on effective ranges for these bikes. Knowing that there are a lot of individual factors that come into play, if I were to go with the Strida, what would be the maximum distance I could expect to cover comfortably? How about for the 20" and 26" Dahons?

Any comments, recommendations, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Anthony

We're very similar...only I'm 1" shorter and 5lbs heavier (I like pizza). I commute by train daily, then bike 4.5 miles each way from the train station to work, then 1.1miles each way from the train station to home. I own both a Xootr Swift (primary bike) and Dahon Vitesse D5 (retired behind the sofa).

On to your concerns:

20" wheel bikes render a much more manageable and less obtrusive (aka, less likely to piss-off the train conductor) folded package. I've seen the 26" Dahon folders on the train, and let me tell you, the owners NEVER fold them. They're just too bulky to carry in that fashion, and too bulky to store on the train in any place other than the bike rack. 16" wheel bikes are cute and cuddly, but that's about it. Stick with 20". You'll thank me when it's time to buy tires.

The range you can cover comfortably on any bike is mostly a result of fit/riding position. Whichever bike you choose, take her out for a test-ride...don't make the same mistake I made by just talking the bike for a once-around-the-block jaunt. If your commute is 4.5 miles, then put 4.5miles on it and see how you feel afterwards. Then go and test another model. If you consider getting a 20" Dahon, I highly recommend you stay away from the non-height-adjustable stempost models like the Vitesse, TR, and Boardwalk. At your height, your saddle will be close to 5" BELOW the handlebars. If you like this sit-up-and-beg riding position, then feel free.

Consider a Swift folder. With the simplest fold, it can stow on a train without taking more than about 5 seconds to either break down or set up. I can't speak for Stridas, but their small wheels won't ride as well as a 20 inch bike.

speed 8
simply "da -best"

:-)

Thor

Strida3 - it loves trains (even loves overhead racks on trains) ;-) .. si

Thanks for your advice. I'm so glad I came across this forum; it's really helped to hear from so many experienced riders. I spent some time last night reading the Swift folder thread (a brand I had not even heard of). That's a nice looking bike, and I like the idea of a solid frame, rather than one that has some type of hinge in it. So, I think I'll be saving up a little bit more money, shaving my head, and joining the Swift cult. ;)

Anthony

One thing to consider here is the folded size of a Swift. I don't know what the guidelines are for Amtrak, but the swift has a much larger folded size than e.g. a Dahon unless you start dissassembling it. A member here gave the dimension of the folded swift as 12"x35"x37"--that's three feet in two directions. A Dahon Speed P8 is 13" x 25" x 32".

This is a popular misconception about 20" wheeled bikes. My longest ride on a 20" wheeled bike is about 110 miles. I was more refreshed after the ride than I was on my "big" bikes. Small wheeled bikes are geared so every turn of the crank moves the bike the same distance as a 26" or 700c wheeled bike.

I run the equivilent of 28c wide tires on my Bike Friday and I find the ride more comfortable than my road bikes that run 23c or 25c wide tires

@Dave Sounds like you have an Air Friday or an Air Glide. ....?

Splendid choice. The difference in ride quality between my Swift and Dahon frames is like night and day. As for the folded dimensions, my Swift's folded width is identical to my Dahon. The only difference is that the Swift is a much taller fold. I've been able to stand in the train car during peak commute with my Swift folded at my side without complaint from any of the train conductors. It takes up about the same standing space as a passenger with an upright suitcase, once you remove the bars (which is very quick and easy to do). If the Amtrak doesn't have a bike car, you can always stash your Swift in the luggage car (my preferred method).

I have a Pocket Pilot and a Pocket Rocket. I'm seriously considering an Air Friday but I don't know which of my current bikes I'd sell....

That is so perfectly logical that I'm a little embarassed it didn't occur to me before I asked my question.

It's been more than 10 years since I've had a bike, and I'm unfamiliar with most of this material. If you don't mind a followup question -- what are the pros and cons of wider tires? Do wider tires equate to a more comfortable ride? And, with more suface area on the road, does that impact the handling or other characteristics of the bike?

Thanks for indulging my curiousity.

Anthony

Here are the rules for taking a folding bike on Amtrack from it's web page:

For assistance, please call 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).

Folding Bikes Brought Aboard as Carry-On Baggage

Folding bicycles may be brought aboard certain passenger cars as carry-on baggage. Only true folding bicycles (bicycles specifically designed to fold up into a compact assembly) are acceptable. Generally, these bikes have frame latches allowing the frame to be collapsed, and small wheels. Regular bikes of any size, with or without wheels, are not considered folding bikes, and may not be stored as folding bikes aboard trains.

You must fold up your folding bicycle before boarding the train. You may store the bike only in luggage storage areas at the end of the car (or, in Superliners, on the lower level). You may not store bikes in overhead racks.

The rules seem to have become more stricter recently. I would opt for the most compact size when folded for any bike I would bring on the train. I suggest you call first before you select and purchase a bike and ask what is new size restrictions and what is the largest case that can be taken onboard as a carry-on. Try not to be tempted to do check-in as you want to be flexible as you can (getting on and getting off the train without any problems or finding assistance in getting your bike out of storage). I think my 20 inch Dahon Boardwalk is out now. But my Brompton might still have a chance to be taken on with me. Then select a bike that will not be thrown off the first time you try to board and you waste your money on something that cannot be used for multi-modal commuting.

Remember to print out the official webpages of each of the transit companies you will be using containing the rules of your folder for your sanity and protection against being prevented from boarding.

@ff I think the folding 20" Dahons are still OK on Amtrak, at least in the Boston/D.C. corridor. The biggest factor is picking less crowded trains. Passenger complaint = conductor confrontation.

Just so you know, a stock Bike Friday pocket tourist sells for just $10 more than the swift...it's worth checking out
Juan162

Let me start off by saying that I am a Amtrak conductor on San Joaquin trains. Oakland Ca - Bakersfield Ca. A lot has to due with what type of passenger car you are using and how it is configered inside. Here in CA we have mainly bylevel CA cars. They each have 3 racks for full sized bikes or bagage. The guidance we are given by managment is that we can carry as many bikes as we want but they must not block doors, wheelchair access, extend into isles or dammage passenger/railroad property. The short of it is once the bike/bag space is full. You can only take on true folders that will fit in the smaller baggage areas or between the seats. I have never had to turn away a Brompton or swift they allways seem to fit some where safley. My recomendation is to ride the train during rush hour before you buy a bike and check out the bike space. Look at the amount of space for full size bikes then look for space that true folders would fit in. example: small luggage racks, over head racks or space between two seats facing back to back. CA and NC trains are both funded by state DOT money Amtrak is only the operater. You may find more info on the NC DOT web page.

If there are bike lockers at the train stations. You could also keep a lower cost full size bike in a bike locker at the destination train station. This way you do not have to mess with carrying a bike on/off the train.

I have a Helios P8 and love it. I'm 5'7" and 160 lbs so we have pretty similar builds. I don't have too much experience riding other folders, although I did try a Brompton which I found too squirrely. I considered the swift as well, but the only thing that made me decide on the Helios instead was the not so compact fold. I figured, if I'm going to get a folding bike it should at least be compact. Anyway, just my two cents.

A few weeks ago, I tried out some folding bikes at a dealers and hated them all. They felt really strange with very rapid steering. Nevertheless I needed a folder and settled on a Taiwanese copy of the Brompton called a Merc. Within two days, I grew to love it. It's very rideable once I got used to it; it's so easy to pick up and bring into the house, and it folds to a package 23x22x10 inches. It is now my mount of choice for any local road type useage. When I get on my Scott Aspen, it feels like a tank; seems to be stuck on a rail when it comes to a turn, and feels very cumbersome.

Like mutterage up above said, you won't get turned away with something like that. My 10 mile a day commute is a breeze now. Oh I forgot to say, it folds in about thirty seconds and fits into the supplied carrying bag in about twenty more.

Well, as you know, a bike is a very personal choice. There's no ONE PERFECT one. Have fun shopping.

Just so you know, I'm 6'1", 230#. I REALLY like pizza! :D

My daily round trip commute to the park n ride is 4.8 miles. All uphill at night or downhill in the morning. Traffic is somewhat heavy at night. But I've been a bike commuter all my adult life, so traffic doesn't scare me.

I ride a Dahon Speed 7. The minute I saw it I knew it was coming home with me!

20" Wheel size is a good balance of foldability and rideability. Also, it just looks kind of Euro and cool to me. Geared correctly, riding on 20" wheels compare to 26" wheels. Yes, I sat on the floor in the LBS and worked out the gear inches before I bought the Dahon.

We are allowed to bring full-sized bikes on the Metrolink here in the LA area. There are special areas for bikes. However, if it really gets crowded, the conductor has the authority put you out and make room for sitting passengers. With a folder, you can probably fit it under the seat or on the floor between your legs, and everyone is happy. You will have to check with your particular rail authority on this.

The longest I have ridden my Dahon at one time is 25 miles. Except for the nose of the saddle being just a bit too wide for my taste, it was quite comfortable. The Scouts I rode with still had to work to keep up with me! I was in no discomfort during or after the ride.

If there is any down side, it is that I tend to baby my Dahon compared to my Cannodale MTB. Folders are a bit flexible due to their design. I won't get out of the saddle and honk on the folder as I would the MTB.

Welcome to this forum. Let us know what you decide to get!

Looking for a folder as well
 

I find it ironic to say that if you are looking for a folder you might not want a Swift, but if you are looking for a bike you want a Swift. It seems like a bike that happens to fold indeed. That is my problem, I want a bike to take o the train and part of the ride is trying to store it. However if I wanted a bike I would go for the Swift because sooner or later I going to need it to tavel well.

Yep, especially after seeing james_swift bike with the drop bars, it looks like a racer. Sometimes it looks like a MTB with the straight bars. And after seeing pics of wav's green mean machine, I probably think that it is a bit like my black n green Ninja (the mirror made me think of the Ninja). Ninja refers to Kawasaki EX250 motorcycle. There is no alternative for me for a 30 mile one way ride.

See this link

My Ninja looks like this

EvilV and others,

How does the 3 speed Sturmey Archer feel like on the Merc/Brommie etc? Do you feel it lackin in any way? I usually am in 7th gear in my 8 speed DT

From all I've seen and heard about the Swift, I would say that it would not be the best folder to reccomend for carrying & storing on a train. It's size & shape folded doesn't lend itself to all trains and buses.
As the query was for a bike which is suitable for mixed travel surely any compact folder would be more suitable than a Swift?

Thanks for the empathy -- it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this. ;)

From what I have read, here and other places, the swift does not seem to fold as compactly as some of the other 20" bikes. On top of that, it is more expensive than some of the other models (such as the Dahon Speed). As far as I can tell, most people agree that it is a quality bike with good riding characteristics.

My commute is probably somewhat different from that of most of the people here. The train is not a commuter train, it just happens to run where I need it to run at a time that works for me. I will have a reserved seat and the number of passengers per car is pretty small. Also, the station(s) I will disembark at are not busy commuter depots. So, I may not have to put as much of a premium on the folded size as others. In that case, the Swift might be right for me.

Once again, thanks for the comments and suggestions. They are much appreciated.

PS: I live in the Raleigh-Durham area, and I am having a hard time finding bike shops that stock folders. Does anyone know of any in the NC Piedmont?