LittlePixel

Edd : This video is an excellent find. I want Dr Alex's little model maquette Moulton for the living room!

spambait11

Manufacturer?

jur

Dr Moulton's testing, according to images in that video, was done on a small-diameter drum. The results from such a small drum indicate smaller wheels to be more efficient compared to actual road riding, due to the smaller length of tyre deformation. And because the results do not translate directly to road riding, the results are not representative.

Bummer.

Still, Moulton wasn't born yesterday, and I think that his results do tell us something about suspended wheels being more efficient, and wheel diameter being of lesser importance than generally thought.

EvilV

Has anyone had experience of the Pashley Moulton bikes? They have 20 inch wheels it seems.

Clownbike

These guys have a few Moultons, and then some.

https://www.2-wheel.com/ayasecycle.htm

EvilV

I've just come back to this post and I'm thinking about the small drum comment. I suppose from memory that the drum was similar in size to the wheel. It looked rough and bumpy to simulate a poor road surface. Judging by the suspension deformation shown, the test was unrepresentative only in that the road was worse than any I'd consider riding on. On the other hand, I have an unsuspended 16 incher, so I flinch at potholes. Anyway, I think the comments about efficiency at the start implied some kind of track test measuring rider output.


EDIT:

TO ANYBODY WHO ENJOYED THE MOULTON VIDEO, DOWNLOAD THE FLASH MOULTON BOOKLET HERE:

https://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/booklet.html

IT GOES INTO REALLY INTERESTING DETAILS ABOUT DESIGNS AND FEATURES.

I recommend the 'download' option. I tried the view online option, but found it too small to read. The downloaded one is excellent from the size point of view.

pm124

Sorry, manufacturer. Also, the...'doctor, not a"... joke might not culturally translate. It's from Star Trek, a US television series from the '60s. Did ya'll get that down under?

So, is all of this over engineering? I recently took apart the new Birdy stem (https://www.r-m.de/uploads/vJfPkzWGoh...g/huelse_1.wmv) and wondered if all of that stuff was really necessary. (The used Birdy I bought was part of a recall, so I replaced a part.)

EvilV

Just watched that vid.

It does seem a very nicely built, if perhaps overly complicated hinge. That kind of work would cost a lot to produce and since other folder hinges are perfectly serviceable, but much less complex, I'd say it is over engineered. It's the kind of design work you might expect to see on an aircraft or something like that.

jur

Err, no, I didn't. But I can be slow as ... and I'm a Trekkie fan... culturally, we're roughly on the same level, so I have no excuse... although it is now years since I saw an episode from the original series. I'm fairly sure I have seen that particular episode, but the details escape me now.

EvilV

lol - Sorry to be replying to my own post, but was I deluded in wanting a Moulton New Series after watching that video. I just got an email from them in response to my request for pricing information....

Boy - was I barking up the wrong tree?

pm124

Yeah, your best bet is to get an old used steel one and upgrade it. I've met a few that have scored them. Amazingly, the elastomers on both bikes still work after 40 years! Of course, you could also get one in Japan for slightly less, but the Yen is rising by the day.

Or, you could just save the money and buy different full suspension small wheeled bike.

invisiblehand

Are you considering a Pashley?

Clownbike

Captain...I tried shoving a wiener in the warp drive, but it dinna seem to make a bit o' difference. By the way, would you be able to spare a bit of mustard?

Star Dreck, circa '80's thanks to Dr Demento

EvilV

Yes - I don't really need a hand made bike, built at a stately home in Southern England. Those prices for the New Series are a joke. I paid about £7000 for a three month old deisel car and was happy, but a bike?

My problem is that having written to Pashley about more detailed photographs pf the TSR8, they say they don't have any; which seems strange. My nearest Pashley dealer is over a hundred miles away. Having watched that video about Moulton's light weight suspension for small wheels, I was sort of persuaded, but maybe I'll buy a Curve woth Big Apple tyres instead.... I'd have enough cash left over to go on a world cycle tour, or maybe I'll just stick to what I've got. The pursuit of posessions is the pursuit of illusions - mostly. I added the 'mostly' so as not to sound like some kind of eastern philosopher.

EvilV

Most of the old ones are hideously ugly though. Also, a lot of them are forty years old and look it in every way - rust - style issues - white grips. Very dated, not to mention the problem of getting new parts if you need them. The newer small diameter tubes welded into a kind of space frame do have some appeal though. Naa - I'm starting to recoil from the idea like a snail does from a patch of salt.

Do you know of any high performance small wheeled bikes?

pm124

I try to keep my wiener out of the warp drive machinery, but I understand the temptation.

pm124

EvilV, nothing wrong with sounding like an eastern philosopher. We actually could use more of that around these parts. (These parts being the US.)

High performance suspension bikes?

Well in larger, fit in the car folding size (will fit in your $14,000 diesel), you have the Airnimal (rear) and the Reach (full suspension). Both expensive with excellent reviews, but much cheaper than the Moulton. Haven't tried either. The road version of the Reach is called, "Reach for the Road," which sounds like the last think you do before you hit the pavement.

Then, in mid-size, you have the hinge-frame Dahons. I think there is a full suspension sub-20# model in their international bikes section. I have a friend with one of those. It's just 4 years old and sounds like a jalopy, squeeking and creaking in a scary way from every bit of the frame. The guy weighs about 125 and is approaching 65 years old, but breaks spokes in the Rolf wheels all the time. Not sure how the newer ones are.

Finally, in the Moulton wheel, small size, you have my baby, the Birdy. I bought both of mine used, each at the 500 mile sweet spot, for a bit less than the new price. One advantage to this bike and the Reach is that they are both suspended with elastomers, which are very durable. The sealed bearings in the frame hinge are the only additional bits over a non-suspended bike.

pm124

Oh, and how could I forget. There is the Air Friday with rear suspension. No additional moving parts there at all.

invisiblehand

Bike Friday actually has a front suspension fork ... you just have to ask. The MTB front suspension version is called the Pocket Gnu.

There is a gentleman in Canada selling an Air Friday with front suspension. I think his name is Wil. You can find him on the Yak boards.

Regarding the Pashley, if you are going to spend a big lump of cash on a bike, EvilV, is it not worth a 100-mile trip?

-G

EvilV

Oh - thanks for that invisiblehand. I'd begin to wonder when the makers claim they have no better pictures than a 350x289 pixel snap that they use on their website. How do you make a purchase decision for £900 on the basis of that?

Thanks for all that detail. I'm going to look into all of them.

Can I just say something off topic about my diesel car. It normally returns about 60 mpg, but this month, I've only been using it for leisurely journeys of a long distance type. I always measure the fuel consumption by measuring mileage from full tank to the next complete refill. Last fill up, for a 560 mile period of driving, it averaged 72 mpg. I've seen 68 quite a few times, but that one is as we say here, the dog's bollocks of efficency. 19.5:1 compression ratio is the way to go... Laws of thermodynamics rule.

invisiblehand

Oh, I think that it is ridiculous and they are obviously hurting themselves. Unless of course there is something they are hiding. But I would go with a bit of incompetence for the time being.

EvilV

I found some VERY detailed photos on the web of the TSR Pashley / Moultons. They look absolutely beautifully made. Definately worth a look. I'm very tempted by them.

https://www.moulton-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=212

pm124

The Birdy (there is one in the picture) has almost the same component selection, down to the rims (same make, model). Would be fun to try them side by side. I have to say that the Moulton looks a lot nicer, but I doubt it rides any differently.

Did a stretch of a 22 mile ride this morning at 27MPH (maybe for two miles). It was a lot of fun, but the 3 chainrings on that Moulton would have changed things a bit.

jur

Heh heh, I like this pic of the bike on a cool white carefully draped background, then forgetting to crop and showing a scruffy dog peeking in!

EvilV

That's the Moulton Pooch, mid ninties model. Comes in short or long hair, model designation Moulton Pooch (scraggy) and Moulton Pooch (shaved). They can only do a few each year and sizing is variable.

What do you reckon to that frame construction Jur? It looks kind of stiff and quirky. I'm really drawn to it myself. I'm also interested in the leading link suspension idea.... As long as the bearings are well lubed and unworn - deadly otherwise.