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BF PR vs NWT

Old 01-16-08, 09:24 AM
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BF PR vs NWT

I figure if you got the title, you're in the know.

What about Pocket Rocket vs. New World Tourist? Wheel size, weight...what about ride quality (for light touring not racing)?
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Old 01-16-08, 09:36 AM
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If you don't get the answers you are looking for it might be worth asking on the BF Yak List. You'll get access to lots of owners of both models you are interested in.

https://www.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak
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Old 01-16-08, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by velogirl
I figure if you got the title, you're in the know.

What about Pocket Rocket vs. New World Tourist? Wheel size, weight...what about ride quality (for light touring not racing)?
If I recall correctly ...
  1. There is a difference in geometry ... NWT has a lower BB and a more "relaxed" geometry.
  2. Pocket Rocket typically comes with ERTO 451 wheels whereas the NWT ERTO 406 ... although one could fit ERTO 451 wheels on the NWT
  3. the NWT is heavier ... I am unable to recall the difference. I believe that it is less than the difference between the NWT and Llama which is approximately 1-1.5 pounds.
  4. They have different brakes ... caliper versus cantilever.
  5. I believe that they have the same carrying capacity.
  6. You can fit wider tires on the NWT relative to the PR.
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Old 01-16-08, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand
If I recall correctly ...
  1. ...
  2. ...
  3. ...
  4. They have different brakes ... caliper versus cantilever.
Just to clarify, the NWT has the linear-pull "V-brake" flavor of canti's.

PR vs NWT is kind of a close call. I chose a NWT because I felt like I wanted to fall firmly on the touring part of the divide. But I've ridden my NWT briskly in a paceline, and a PR certainly has the capability of being used to tour. There are more choices for 406 tires, but that's not to say that there are no choices for the 451 tires.

Oh, here's what might be an important difference. If you want to use STI shifters, then because of the linear-pull brakes on the NWT, you'll have to use travel-agents. You can use STI shifters without travel-agents on the PR. It might be a nit, but it might throw you in one direction vs the other.

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Old 01-16-08, 12:00 PM
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Thank you so much for the information.
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Old 01-16-08, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedo
Just to clarify, the NWT has the linear-pull "V-brake" flavor of canti's.

PR vs NWT is kind of a close call. I chose a NWT because I felt like I wanted to fall firmly on the touring part of the divide. But I've ridden my NWT briskly in a paceline, and a PR certainly has the capability of being used to tour. There are more choices for 406 tires, but that's not to say that there are no choices for the 451 tires.

Oh, here's what might be an important difference. If you want to use STI shifters, then because of the linear-pull brakes on the NWT, you'll have to use travel-agents. You can use STI shifters without travel-agents on the PR. It might be a nit, but it might throw you in one direction vs the other.

Speedo
Good point Speedo. In fact, I recall that the center-pull cantilever brakes would create cable/folding issues.

Like Speedo, I have a NWT and use it to do quick club rides.
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Old 01-16-08, 07:01 PM
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Velogirl,

The lightweight version of the NWT is the 'Pocket Crusoe'. It is a lightweight touring bike.

I think it's max rider weight is about 180 lbs. That's why my wife has one, but I am on a NWT!!!

Both of these bikes run on 406 wheels, but the Crusoe comes with Presta valves.

Our bikes both have Dual Drive 27-speed set-ups. The wife has "H" bars, while I went with Straight bars & short bar ends in order to have adequate hand room.

The wife LOVES her Crusoe (shown below).
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Old 01-16-08, 10:04 PM
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Does BF publish its geometry specs for the various models?
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Old 01-16-08, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
Does BF publish its geometry specs for the various models?
They publish the effective top tube length of the various sizes:

Question:

What FRAME SIZES do you make, and how do they compare to a normal bike?


Answer:

A Bike Friday frame is sized according to 8 "effective" top tube lengths. The Effective Top Tube is the distance from the center of the headtube to the the center of the seat tube measured horizontally. This number is equivalent to the top tube length on a standard pre-2000 road bike with a horizontal top tube.

XXS = 48cm = 18.9"
XS = 50cm = 19.7"
S = 52cm = 20.5"
S/M = 54cm = 21.25
M = 56cm = 22"
L = 58cm = 22.8"
XL = 60cm = 23.625"
XXL = 62cm = 24.4"


The sizing of stems and seat masts is virtually unlimited, which enables a more precise fit for a wider range of riders - from kids and short statured people to NBA Basketball players - than a conventional bike can offer. See Sizing. Those with older Bike Fridays note that we used to make our frames in just three sizes: SMALL (21.05"/52.7cm), MEDIUM (22.35"/55.88cm), and LARGE (23.12"/57.80cm).


The sizing possibilities are really endless - hey, they even make bikes for "little people", whose body dimensions vary greatly. That said, if you have a favorite bike, they can make one for you with the same effective dimensions.
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Old 01-17-08, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Foldable Two
Both of these bikes run on 406 wheels, but the Crusoe comes with Presta valves.
You can get a NWT with rims drilled for Presta valves as well. It's one of the choices you make when ordering.

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Old 01-17-08, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Foldable Two
The lightweight version of the NWT is the 'Pocket Crusoe'. It is a lightweight touring bike.

I think it's max rider weight is about 180 lbs. That's why my wife has one, but I am on a NWT!!!
With the DC Bike FRiday people, we all have different estimates of max rider weight, carrying capacity, and so on. So I would double check with the company.

Here is an relevant blip comparing the PR and PR Pro.

Question
What is the difference between the Pocket Rocket and the Pocket Rocket Pro?
Old ID
50
Answer

The Pocket Rocket is designed for all round road riding and medium loaded touring on paved roads.

The Pro is a lighter, sportier bike crafted from lighter tubing, designed for racing, event riding and unloaded touring. Both designs can be specified to include the braze-on trailer hitch to to the TravelSystem.

The Pocket Rocket:

- weighs from around 20 and upwards
- takes front and rear panniers
- rider weight limit 220 lbs

The Pocket Rocket Pro:

- Bike weight ranges from as as light as 16.5 lbs; frame, fork and stem is around 1.6 lbs lighter than an equivalently equipped Pocket Rocket
- Comes with a Custom Ultralight Fit Stem Program
- Fork is lighter and tapered; does not take front rack
- Rider weight limit 180 lbs
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Old 01-17-08, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Foldable Two
They publish the effective top tube length of the various sizes...
OK, well that's like one geometry item out of like 12 that could help you make a decision.

I'd still want to know the wheelbases, chainstay lengths, BB height/drop, seat tube angle & so forth that the use as starting points. I'm sure they can and will customize for you, but I also expect that many of their customers aren't that specific about geometry. So they must have some sort of guidelines, I'd imagine.
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Old 01-17-08, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe
I'd still want to know the wheelbases, chainstay lengths, BB height/drop, seat tube angle & so forth that the use as starting points. I'm sure they can and will customize for you, but I also expect that many of their customers aren't that specific about geometry. So they must have some sort of guidelines, I'd imagine.
I'm not sure I would have known what to make of them. All of my rules of thumb, and sense of the effect of frame parameters are associated with full sized bikes. I suppose they would make sense if you were comparing to another folder that you were familiar with. It is interesting that while I will examine bike frame parameters carefully, with the NWT I only wanted to know that it would be made to fit. I was relying on consumer descriptions that if I could get it to fit, that it would ride well.

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Old 12-29-16, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Foldable Two
They publish the effective top tube length of the various sizes:

Question:

What FRAME SIZES do you make, and how do they compare to a normal bike?


Answer:

A Bike Friday frame is sized according to 8 "effective" top tube lengths. The Effective Top Tube is the distance from the center of the headtube to the the center of the seat tube measured horizontally. This number is equivalent to the top tube length on a standard pre-2000 road bike with a horizontal top tube.

XXS = 48cm = 18.9"
XS = 50cm = 19.7"
S = 52cm = 20.5"
S/M = 54cm = 21.25
M = 56cm = 22"
L = 58cm = 22.8"
XL = 60cm = 23.625"
XXL = 62cm = 24.4"
chiming in only 10 years late here but if someone is still here....
I am looking at 2nd hand BFs. how then would you measure it's effective top tube to work backwards to it's factory size? from what point to what point? I don't know where you would find the equivalent of the center of the headtube and the centre of the seattube on a BF.

would you say A or B in the attached photo. (though if the headtube and seattube on a BF are virtually parallel then A will be the same as B I guess.)
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Last edited by pstock; 12-29-16 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 12-29-16, 02:44 PM
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The BF shown is an older model (older than my 2007) so a seperate, length specific stem is not part of it. The seatpost and the head tube are basically parallel, but by sliding the seat back & forth and/or changing the stem length (on newer models) one can make the bikes a bit shorter or longer as needed. Changing the handle bars would likely make a difference, too.

After a shoulder injury a few years ago, I made mine effectively a bit smaller by installing a shorter stem. (It started as a 62mm, but it's more like a 60mm frame, now.)
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Old 12-29-16, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pstock
chiming in only 10 years late here but if someone is still here....
I am looking at 2nd hand BFs. how then would you measure it's effective top tube to work backwards to it's factory size? from what point to what point? I don't know where you would find the equivalent of the center of the headtube and the centre of the seattube on a BF.

would you say A or B in the attached photo. (though if the headtube and seattube on a BF are virtually parallel then A will be the same as B I guess.)
If you find a used BF you are serious about, get the serial number and call Bike Friday. That's what I did and I was able to get them to email me the entire original spec sheet. They are also really helpful if you have other questions. Serial is usually on the bottom of the BB (can be hard to read) or on some older models I believe it is on the rear chainstay or rear Der hanger somewhere.
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Old 12-29-16, 07:22 PM
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You can use STI levers on a NWT if you use mini V brakes..That is what I have on my NWT and you can still fit fenders(mudguards)..
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Old 12-29-16, 10:59 PM
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newest NWT has been re designed so it will be available with belt drive, if so ordered as such..

450 rim , 1.5" tire
PR will have 451 rim thinner tire 1.125"
you may be able to order a disc brake NWT,& so choose either rim /wheel size..

I got this Pocket Llama , significantly Higher BB, & capacity for wider tires .
I've since added Some things and changed others ..


Last edited by fietsbob; 12-30-16 at 04:31 PM.
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