chagzuki

The idea that there's any notable degree of soul in welding bike frames seems like nonsense to me (admittedly I've not tried it myself), it's a repetitive act, not a creative branch of The Humanities or Arts. I'd much rather Brompton reduced their production costs and brought the retail price of the bikes down, I don't care where it's made.

gringo_gus

From memory, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance contains the argument against your first point. And actually, you do care where is made, you want it made where labor costs are cheaper. But at the same time, while copying you on the SL2 - X, PDR, I am really attached to my Dahon Speed TR.

PDR

The whole ethos of the Brompton is that it is a hand –built, British designed and manufactured product. It is (relatively) expensive but then you do have to pay a premium for quality and exclusivity. I do care where my Brompton is made...part of the appeal is the fact that it its made in Britain. I’d much rather pay my money knowing that it is going towards the wages of a skilled British worker earning a fair income than some unknown Asian worker who is probably being exploited or at least only on the minimum wage.

If Brompton switched production to Taiwan and built them by robots they would be no better than any other common Far East product. If that is what you want then why not buy a Dahon or other similar product.

chagzuki

Seems like the high cost of a Brompton is partially about buying into an unrealistically romantic idea, the reference to Zen illustrates that. I'd be curious to know what Brompton factory employees earn.

LWaB

I don't know exactly but they have quite a low staff turnover rate and there is more than one set of relatives working there. I'd guess it would be at least somewhat above minimum wage.

OrangeClownBike

a brazer at brompton earns about £8 per hour (from latest job requests) plus inclusion in the bonus scheme (I've no idea how good the bonuses are but I'm guessing they aren't in the same league as banks!)

To put it in context the minimum wage in the uk is (correct me if I'm wrong) somewhere around the £5-6 mark. A lot of people in the hospitality industry earn a lot less due to dodgy company practices regarding tips and over time.

I believe design staff are similar but not quite as good as with big engineering firms, but that's typical of small engineering firms (which brompton is)

If you don't like the price of the brompton then don't get one.

chagzuki

£8 per hour is a fairly dire wage if you're living in london and certainly not good outside london, that's subsistence living. But perhaps this is going too OT.

tcs

"Some folks don't believe that the Taiwanese can make stuff as well as the British did, but there's no factual basis for that belief, and in many cases this attitude may be traced to racism. " Sheldon Brown

brakemeister

who thinks that Dahon workers are underpaid , or working at minimum wages ?
suggesting that they have no soul is ridicoulous at best.

Dahon pays the highest wages, have the lowest turnaround of workers ( not just in town but in the whole provinze ) Dahon owner David Hon lives at the plant where they offer housing, mensa ( kitchen) child care services , Yes the owner likes to play basketball which there is a basketbal field on company grounds, as well as other sporting opportunities ... and the list goes on

not everything is perfect and there are areas where Dahon could need extra boost ( spare part distribution is one of them) but calling Dahon workers soul less is simply way out of line.


Thor

p.s.
To all disgruntled former employees and employees of competitors : You dont do yourself ( or the company you work for now ) a favour trying to drag your competitor through the mud every opportunity you get. Enuff said you know who you are

gringo_gus

Me, I like having the choice. Somethings a Dahon gives me, somethings a Brompton. If Brompton is paying £8 an hour [which I find hard to believe] though, the craft industry, made locally vibe would be damaged for me personally.

And I'm all for being unrealistically romantic. And maybe the longing for the Dahon Curl, better than, but cheaper than the Brompton, and all the posts about it here are a bit of unrealistic romanticism too ?

I dream of a world where Dahon and Brompton, Bike Friday and Birdy, Xootr and strida, and dammit, even Downtube and Moulton live side by side in peace and harmony, and where their offspring, and offspring of folders unnamed and unknown, pootle in the streets together in peace love and understanding.

chagzuki

With my extremely limited knowledge of economics it strikes me we're near the start of a long process of the devaluation of sterling and the rise in value of eastern currencies; I'd imagine british manufacturing is due a resurgence.

PDR

I didn’t mention Dahon in my reference to Far Eastern bicycle manufactures wages.
I’m not at all racist, I work with many different nationalities and I wear a German watch, own Japanese cars, TV, HiFi etc.
As regards, soul or whatever... when someone stops me at the railway station to ask about my Brompton I can take pride in telling them that it was hand-made in a little factory in London.... whereas with a Dahon I would have to say that the bike was built by a robot somewhere in Taiwan...

brakemeister

the only robots they have are their testing an q/c stuff ..
https://www.thorusa.com/dahon/technical/dahontest.jpg

The people who are assembling the bikes are far from robots, they breath and eat sleep just like everyone of us.


to answer to gringo :
it seems that some of the posters here have a complete twisted sense of what going on in the real world. Competiors are just that competitors.... but we all treat ourselves with respect and have admiration for each other. We like their products as they ultimately are doing the same thing, getting people onto bikes and enjoy riding them. We greet eachother, shaking hands with them and usually do not talk bad about them either.

shinew

If you're a British national, I can understand your pride in telling people that you use a British made folder. But to say that Dahons are "built by a robot somewhere in Taiwan..." and imply their products are inferior because they're are built by "some unknown Asian worker who is probably being exploited or at least only on the minimum wage", that's disrespectful to both the company and the people who work there.

be cool.

twentysixtwo

I agree - the IG hub = no der, but why such a large tensioner? Does the chain length change with the folding geometry? Strange... Those alloy folding pedals look sweet.

***WANT***

Now to figure out what to do with my 7 speed Dahon Impulse...

Dahon.Steve

The reason the Brompton is double the price in the U.S. has nothing to do with the quality of the product. I've always said the Brompton's high price is due to the fall of the American dollar. Our politicians devalued our dollar over the past 40 years hoping it would spur on exports. It didn't work because the Europeans protected their markets as we should have.

The Brompton would cost slight ly over $700.00 USD if it weren't for the poor exchange rate value. If you look at the Brompton up close, it looks like a $700.00 - $800.00 dollar bicycle. However, even though the price is nearly double, people are still buying the Bromptons buy the truckloads. That should tell you enough.

I still like my Dahons and will defend them when the time comes. However, there's just something about purchasing a brand new bicycle made in the UK that makes it feel better. It's called Bling. I sometimes wish the Swift were still being made in New Jesery but now that production moved offshore, the desire is all gone. I wish there was a way we could purchase a hand made Schwinn 10 speed from the Chicago factory. Today, I ride my very used World Sport and pretend.

14R 

The Brompton has the BLING factor, but clearly the selling point comes from when the bike is folded. The unique selling value and the lack of competition makes the price of the Brompton pretty acceptable: if you want a bike that can travel with you without lots of disassembly, you have to pay the price of the Brommie. Period.

Foldable Two

Steel framed Swifts are still being made in Eugene, OR

https://hpm.catoregon.org/?page_id=214

Lou

bhkyte

!!!!!!!!!!!!Since when ******************************??

Next week Brompton lands on the moon!
Brompton will heal the sick!
Brompton bike achieve world peace!

Give me a break...............

invisiblehand

Thor,

I wouldn't really worry about it. In large, people will buy the bike the provides the best value and fit.

Bacciagalupe

By the way, is there any indication that this bike will be in Dahon's 2010 lineup?

chucky

I think most folding bike companies are hopelessly romantic. I'd venture to guess that David Hon would be doing much better if his company were building lasers, weapons, etc, but he isn't because he wanted to make folding bikes instead. Same with Andrew Ritchie, George Lin, Alan Scholz, Mark Sanders, etc, etc. All men with a passion for doing the right thing as far as I can tell.

All in all I think the folding bike industry isn't a bad lot at all and a great place to blow some dough with minimal post-purchase guilt. But I guess some people are willing to pay a premium just to say "It's British ::sneer:: ".

Dahon.Steve

I don't see how Dahon can get around the incredibly small chainring issue. It appears they made a production model but it would surprise me if they never bring this bike around because of the lack of a high gear.

Several years ago Dahon had a drawing of a 16 inch folder that looked very similar to the Jet Stream. This is the bike that should have gone into production.

14R 

I am not sure about landing on the moon...

EastBiker

What's wrong with this guy? Hey bhkyte, you've been harping on Bromptons ever since you joined. Why do you hate Bromptons so much?