Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Birdy thread

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Birdy thread

Old 08-03-22, 04:01 PM
  #2126  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
The stoppers on my Ti Birdy from Pacific Cycles are the same as on the Birdy 3 but with a completely different adjustment, much longer out on the Ti Birdy.

There are two stoppers on the Birdy, one fo the fold of the rear arm, one for the seatpost, which stopper is screwed in all the way on your Birdy ?

On my Birdy 3, the one for the seatpost is screwed in all the way and has no adjusting nut, the one for the rear arm folding not and has an adjustment nut.
Iím only aware of one which pushes against the seatpost, none-adjustable. Could you point me out to the second one?
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 04:40 PM
  #2127  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,132
Liked 691 Times in 439 Posts
Originally Posted by CEBEP
Ok, this is the Litepro one I need which costs 5x the price of other Litepro adaptor lol. I guess anything Birdy costs extra.
About $26 here from the official Litepro store.
Ron Damon is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 04:50 PM
  #2128  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,132
Liked 691 Times in 439 Posts
Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling
I was able to run a GS derailleur with my 36t cassette, it has more ground clearance than the Deore SGS you have mounted on your bike. Looks good though,
What would be helpful is a straight-on image of the rear wheel and the RD so we could actually gauge ground clearance.

Example of straight on image:

GS on 53-406

Your GS RD looks like an pre-2017 Deore with a max cog capacity of 36t. Nowadays and since 2017 Deore GS has been able to span at least 42t.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 08-03-22 at 08:38 PM.
Ron Damon is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 08:12 PM
  #2129  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Ron Damon
About $26 here from the official Litepro store.
link?
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 08:24 PM
  #2130  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,132
Liked 691 Times in 439 Posts
Originally Posted by CEBEP
link?
Promo LITEPRO FD HANGER FOR BIRDY - GOLD - Jakarta Pusat - LITEPRO INDONESIA | Tokopedia
Ron Damon is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 08:29 PM
  #2131  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
I understand itís a local website which I canít even read. Maybe it costs this much locally in Indonesia which is of little help for me. Thanks for sharing though.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-03-22, 11:22 PM
  #2132  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,132
Liked 691 Times in 439 Posts
Originally Posted by CEBEP
I understand itís a local website which I canít even read. Maybe it costs this much locally in Indonesia which is of little help for me. Thanks for sharing though.
Just wanted you to know how much things cost here closer to the manufacturer and how much you are getting price gouged over there in Europe. The part will, of course, be even cheaper in the PRC.
Ron Damon is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 02:20 AM
  #2133  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
Originally Posted by Ron Damon
What would be helpful is a straight-on image of the rear wheel and the RD so we could actually gauge ground clearance.

Example of straight on image:

GS on 53-406

Your GS RD looks like an pre-2017 Deore with a max cog capacity of 36t. Nowadays and since 2017 Deore GS has been able to span at least 42t.
Riese & MŁller mount a Shimano RD-T610-SGS derailleur on the Birdy which is OK because 36t is about the maximum possible on the Birdy 3.

The stopper for the rear arm folding is circled in red in the picture below which also show the position of a Shimano Ultegra RD-R8000-GS derailleur on the Birdy with 50x355 tires in its worst case position (the cage is the closest to the ground on the cogs in the middle of the cassette, its higher on the biggest and smallest cogs, on your picture, the derailleur cage isn't in its worst case = closest to the ground position).



About the gearing, if you are satisfied with 52x11 as longest which is about 6.7m, you could as well use a 9-34 cassette with a 42t chainring that also gives about 6.7m as longest and gives about 1.7m on the biggest 34t sprocket what is the same as what you will have with the inner small 39t chainring of your double and a 32t cog.

Last edited by Jipe; 08-04-22 at 02:25 AM.
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 02:27 AM
  #2134  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
XDR hubs and cassettes were/are not available locally and I canít order them online due to the high costs. I donít want to install things which are not readily available locally and have no warranty even though the price. And no replacements available locally if Iíll need to replace cassette or change it for any other confirmation. Shimano cassettes are always available in any configuration and cheap price. Same goes for my Brompton, all parts are always available locally.

So going the way you suggested with XDR hub/cassette is not feasible for me in my location.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 02:36 AM
  #2135  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
But you seem to buy many things on Aliexpress which is also not local availability, can't you buy those XDR parts in Asia like you do for parts coming from Aliexpress ?

Is SRAM not available in Turkey?

The problem with the current range of Shimano groupsets its that they have now several groupsets completely incompatible with each others: 12s MTB is totally incompatible with 12s road, 10s and 11s MTB for ebike (Linkglide) are totally incompatible with previous 10s and 11s MTB and with current 12s MTB and they now have new 11s and 12s Di2 MTB that only work with Shimano new Steps ebike motor !
They have also now 3 types of freewheels on their rear hubs, the old one, one for MTB 12s only, one for road 12s only.
For road, there is now in 12s only Di2 groupset but customers are waiting since many years for a MTB 12s Di2 solution, the newly announced 12s MTB Di2 isn't a solution, it works only in combination with 2 new Steps motor (previous EP8 motor isn't even upgradable to work with those groupsets).

I previously liked a lot the excellent Shimano groupset but the latest one are a mess !

Last edited by Jipe; 08-04-22 at 03:18 AM.
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 02:49 AM
  #2136  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
But you seem to buy many things on Aliexpress which is also not local availability, can't you buy those XDR parts in Asia like you do for parts coming from Aliexpress ?
I donít buy drivetrain components from China if itís possible. Only components that will not require maintenance or replacement.

Rear hub, cassette, chain are all bought locally, Shimano. Front derailleur will also be Shimano. Also locally. The only drivetrain thing Iíve ordered from China is double chainrings. $33.91 shipping and import tax included. And they will be available to order forever. And for this price I have absolutely no issues ordering them from China.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 04:04 AM
  #2137  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Jipe I get it now. You just donít like Shimano. Iím sure you have your reasons. Here in Istanbul they have very good customer service, very, very wide service network, products availability, good prices and Shimano service center mechanics (mine is too) know what they are doing. So I see no reason why to look for alternatives.

I didnít come across any official SRAM service centers or found they parts widely available. Only few things here and there probably imported by individual companies. Iím pretty sure they are not present here officially.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 04:12 AM
  #2138  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
I liked a lot previous Shimano drivetrains that work perfectly well and are very reliable but not the current ones like Di2 only road 12s which are incompatible with MTB 12s mechanical only which require the special microspline hub, Linkglide fully incompatible with Hyperglyde and Hyperglide+, new MTB Di2 that work only with a Steps motor...
And all these new drivetrains have a very limited choice of cassettes that aren't good for small wheels bikes.
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 05:20 AM
  #2139  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,132
Liked 691 Times in 439 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
I liked a lot previous Shimano drivetrains that work perfectly well and are very reliable but not the current ones like Di2 only road 12s which are incompatible with MTB 12s mechanical only which require the special microspline hub, Linkglide fully incompatible with Hyperglyde and Hyperglide+, new MTB Di2 that work only with a Steps motor...
And all these new drivetrains have a very limited choice of cassettes that aren't good for small wheels bikes.
I don't know about availability where you are, but where I am one can get Shimano stuff from 7 to 12 speeds. I am still at 10-speeds and will stay there unless 10-speed parts are no longer available (which I reckon will be in a decade) and I am forced upwards. In other words, no one has to chose 12- or even 11-speeds or the latest that Shimano puts out. Heck, I've been thought of going back to 9-speed and would do so were it not for the unavailability of GS MTB RDs for small wheels. I mean, we've got 10-speed Zee with 11-36t for 305 and 349, we've got 10-speed Deore RD-M6000-GS with 11-42t and we've got 11-speed SLX RD-M7000-GS, XT RD-M8000-GS, XTR RD-M9000-GS and GRX with 11-46t for 406 and 451. That other mess that you brought up need not concern us at all. 12-speed? I reckon I'll get there in 2030 perhaps. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 08-04-22 at 05:42 AM.
Ron Damon is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 06:09 AM
  #2140  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
The problem is that a cassette that starts with a smallest cog of 11t is not good for small wheel bikes, the gear inch it gives with a usual 52 or 53t chainring and 52/53x11 is too short and the big cogs above 42 are completely useless. Using very big 60t or more chainring is not a good solution because they aren't standard and do not fit on many folding bikes.

This is the reason why bike manufacturers like Moulton, Riese & MŁller and others use special cassettes with a smallest cog of 10t or 9t.

Shimano has only one solution that accept a 10t cog, its the latest MTB 12s Hyperglide+ which is only compatible with Shimano microspline hub and only in 10-45 or 10-51 (or even bigger from third party).

Shimano had the Capreo drivetrain specially made for small wheels bike but its obsolete (cassette is max 9-28) and anyway discontinued from Shimano and n spare parts available anymore.

Therefore the choice of SRAM XD or XDR rear hub that accepts cassettes starting with a 9t cog, for which there are several cassettes options that fits very well for small wheel bikes with a wide enough gear inch range to avoid the need of a double chainring and that in 11s are compatible with SRAM, Shimano and even Campagnolo derailleurs.

The picture I put of my Birdy show such a solution : XDR rear hub, 11s 9-34t 378% range cassette and Ultegra RD-R8000-GS medium cage rear derailleur (and for a frame that accepts it, there is also a 9-39t cassette 11s for XD/XDR rear hub usuable with a Shimano GRX derailleur).
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 06:19 AM
  #2141  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: The Ring of Fire
Posts: 1,132
Liked 691 Times in 439 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
The problem is that a cassette that starts with a smallest cog of 11t is not good for small wheel bikes, the gear inch it gives with a usual 52 or 53t chainring and 52/53x11 is too short and the big cogs above 42 are completely useless. Using very big 60t or more chainring is not a good solution because they aren't standard and do not fit on many folding bikes.

This is the reason why bike manufacturers like Moulton, Riese & MŁller and others use special cassettes with a smallest cog of 10t or 9t.

Shimano has only one solution that accept a 10t cog, its the latest MTB 12s Hyperglide+ which is only compatible with Shimano microspline hub and only in 10-45 or 10-51 (or even bigger from third party).

Shimano had the Capreo drivetrain specially made for small wheels bike but its obsolete (cassette is max 9-28) and anyway discontinued from Shimano and n spare parts available anymore.

Therefore the choice of SRAM XD or XDR rear hub that accepts cassettes starting with a 9t cog, for which there are several cassettes options that fits very well for small wheel bikes with a wide enough gear inch range to avoid the need of a double chainring and that in 11s are compatible with SRAM, Shimano and even Campagnolo derailleurs.

The picture I put of my Birdy show such a solution : XDR rear hub, 11s 9-34t 378% range cassette and Ultegra RD-R8000-GS medium cage rear derailleur (and for a frame that accepts it, there is also a 9-39t cassette 11s for XD/XDR rear hub usuable with a Shimano GRX derailleur).
I think you need to speak for yourself. For many, including myself, a 11t smallest cog and cogs beyond 42t are useful and adequate. Racing and speed may be your call. It is not not mine. Your terrain and uses are not mine terrain and uses. Highest point in Belgium is less than 700m. I was born at 1,600m. Highest point here is 3,100 and it's volcanic so there are steep river ravines to traverse everywhere. We need not discuss, of course, the great inefficiency and rapid wear of 9t cogs.

Last edited by Ron Damon; 08-04-22 at 06:22 AM.
Ron Damon is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 06:31 AM
  #2142  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
As I wrote, 52x11 on the Birdy is only 6.76m which is very short.

The Riese & MŁller Birdy has 7.86-2.21m with a 9-32t cassette, a Brompton 6s with BWR 7.95-2.63m.

Neither the Birdy nor the Brompton are race bikes but nevertheless, their manufacturers judge that 7.86 and 7.95m are good for their bike. But maybe these manufacturers are incompetent ?

Shimano had Capreo with 9t smallest cog, SRAM introduced 10t cogs for both road and MTB on all their drivetrains but maybe Shimano and SRAM are incompetent too?

Last edited by Jipe; 08-04-22 at 06:46 AM.
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 06:42 AM
  #2143  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
R&M Birdyís 32t does 2.34m and not 2.21 according to my calculations. 6 speed Bromptons sold in Istanbul have 44t chainring as standard to provide shorter gears for climbing, so the Brompton 6 speed range I have is 2.33 to 7.05m. While I found 7.05m to be plenty for speed on my Brompton, 2.33m is still not short enough for me.

Hence I need shorter range and will be adding 39t chainring to Bridy which will provide 1.75m on 32t. Pretty awesome range Iíd say, 1.75t to 6.49m.

I think discussing what bicycle manufacturers put on their bikes is pointless, users are free to modify their bikes to suit their needs. I bet this chainring wasnít installed by R&M, yet rider felt such modification necessary to suit his needs.



Last edited by CEBEP; 08-04-22 at 06:50 AM.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 06:51 AM
  #2144  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
Its because like me, you changed the tires from 40mm wide to 50mm wide (Keuzotter gives also 2.21 for 52x32 with 40mm tires) and for this reason, I moved to a 50t chainring.

With the original 9-32 cassette and 42t chainring you can have 6.7-1.87, not so far from what is obtained with a double chainring.

Last edited by Jipe; 08-04-22 at 09:29 AM.
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 08:02 AM
  #2145  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
Its because like me, you changed the tires from 40mm wide to 50mm wide (Keuzotter gives also 2.21 for 52x32 with 40mm tires) and for this reason, I moved to a 50t chainring.

With the original 9-32 cassette and 42t chainring you can have 6.7-187, not so far from what is obtained with a double chainring.
Could be a good choice if we would have hubs/cassettes available.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-05-22, 03:52 AM
  #2146  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Perfect drivetrain for Birdy would probably be rear hub + belt. Belt for Birdy will be just perfect as it doesnít have to go through the rear triangle. The biggest challenge would probably be how to figure out a tensioner for belt while folding. As far as I know belts are not supposed to be bend in the opposite direction.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-05-22, 04:12 AM
  #2147  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
Liked 256 Times in 220 Posts
The benefit of the belt is limited, current belt last not as long as older ones.

And belt have a lower efficiency than a chain.

Last point, there are no small cogs for belt like for a chain which is a problem for a small wheel bike.

Tensionning is also a problem, not only for folding, but also because the distance between crankset and rear wheel axle changes when the rear suspension works.

For the hub, Rohloff is excellent and compatible with small wheel. That's what I have on my Brompton with 54x13 it gives about 1.5m-8.0m gear inch with 14% perfectly equal spaced speed. Rohloff also allow to switch speed while pedaling with power which isn't possible with other IGH and isn't too heavy (actually a non disc Rohloff with some small weight savings has the same weight as the Brompton 6s BWR).

I could take a Birdy with Rohloff but to minimize the weight, I preferred a derailleur that with my current setup 50t front 9-34t rear provides a enough range.
Jipe is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 12:18 AM
  #2148  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Could someone advise torque values for these two screws?

CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 01:05 AM
  #2149  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 464
Liked 64 Times in 45 Posts
Originally Posted by Jipe
Riese & MŁller mount a Shimano RD-T610-SGS derailleur on the Birdy which is OK because 36t is about the maximum possible on the Birdy 3.

The stopper for the rear arm folding is circled in red in the picture below which also show the position of a Shimano Ultegra RD-R8000-GS derailleur on the Birdy with 50x355 tires in its worst case position (the cage is the closest to the ground on the cogs in the middle of the cassette, its higher on the biggest and smallest cogs, on your picture, the derailleur cage isn't in its worst case = closest to the ground position).



About the gearing, if you are satisfied with 52x11 as longest which is about 6.7m, you could as well use a 9-34 cassette with a 42t chainring that also gives about 6.7m as longest and gives about 1.7m on the biggest 34t sprocket what is the same as what you will have with the inner small 39t chainring of your double and a 32t cog.
I checked that one, itís fully retracted and doesnít touch the frame when rear wheel is folded




there is also room between the wheel and the frame



but something still prevents it from going in further and I canít find what it is. Not the chain tensioner.
CEBEP is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 02:03 AM
  #2150  
Full Member
 
glye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Norway
Posts: 210
Liked 23 Times in 21 Posts
Originally Posted by CEBEP
(...) something still prevents it from going in further and I canít find what it is. Not the chain tensioner.
Maybe check for cables/wires binding and being stretched? Whatever it is, you'll find it eventually
glye is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.