BIKE FRIDAY NWT or DAHON JETSTREAM (again)
 

Hello ! It's Friday, and I am thinking of buying one, I mean a BF, or should I go for a Dahon again?

I owned & sold two Dahons already : JETSTREAM P8 (2004) & VITESSE D7.
Both bikes weren't bad, but they never convinced me either. The assambling quality, riding comfort & stability (lack of it) have always been the main issues for me not "loving" them. And each time I rode them, I always thought, I should have bought something 'better'.

I sold both bikes in 2006, now I want to return to the folding bike scene again, but I can't seem to find the best deal for me.

I've been reading a lot lately, about Dahons, BF's, Brommie, Birdy etc. So now it' decision time.

So, this is the bike I want :

What kind of folder do I prefer ?
- SPORTY, not too heavy and 'naked' (no racks, fenders etc)

What's it for?
-RECREATIONAL, TOURING, FITNESS & no off road

Folding ?
- YES, but it doesn't need to fold in 10 seconds, I wont commute on it, no trains, no busses, but it must fit in a trunk.

Quality
- HIGH, please !

Knowing this, you guys might have some answers for me. The bikes I'm leaning to are ; BIKE FRIDAY NWT, DAHON JETSTREAM P8 (if the overall quality has improved)

Of course, TEST-RIDING is the only way to find out, but that does not give me all the answers, esp. about the quality-aspect.

Thanks !

Since a dahon twice failed to satisfy you, I'd doubt a new one would. And if you're not going to take it off road, why get the bouncy suspension?
If you want sporty perhaps you shoud also consider a Crusoe or a PR instead of the NWT and then tour with the 2 wheel trailer.

I have both a NWT and a Dahon Speed 8, and IMO the NWT is way more fun to ride.

Thanks bokes.

I live in Europe, BF's are hard to find round here. Dahons are much more common as are the Brommies. That's one of the reasons why I mention the Jetstream as a possible new bike, but its unlikely. I am also awaiting prices (In Euro) from the only BF-dealer there is in Belgium.
Good point on the suspension issue, but it does improve the riding-quality IMO.

So is the BF (much) better built than it's American/Chinese competitor? With the Dahons I owned, squeaking sounds were an every day event. The chain on my Jetstream came off lots of times on bumpy roads. The paint came of easily etc.

I really want a quality product, but there's a price limit also. I mean a Birdy is nice too, and rides great, but the price is way too high for an 18" folder.

Bike Fridays most of the time are custom built bikes or if its a standard build you can specify it to your liking. You want a special tire its available. You want "H" bars its available. You want a Campy you can get Campy. They basically use standard parts with the exception of the Capreo hub and that hasn't proven to be a problem. Bang for the buck look for a Pocket Rocket with the "Quick Fold Seat Post" and fit it to your needs. Roger

Bike Fridays are powder coated rather than painted which gives a much more durable finish than paint. I think if you contacted them they can arrange a test ride with an owner in your area.

I don't think there's any lack of quality with Dahon. The main thing is making sure the geometry is right for you, and Dahons can be more limited in terms of adjustment than other bikes.

You might be able to find a local BF owner that will let you see and test ride the bike. Bike Friday, by the way, announced some sort of sale at the moment. If you go to the "rideouttherecession" page you can find active links for the sale. It also mentions some discounts on custom bikes; although you will have to call them about it.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Hi Yaksters,
You all got the "Ride Out The Recession" email, did you?
http://www.bikefriday.com/images/email/1523
Thanks to all the folks who contributed stories.
The full 2 page (so far) article is http://www.bikefriday.com/rideouttherecession
Those whose stories appear in this email - you know who you are. Write to me (as I deleted the emails - just too many) so I can tell you your gift and how to get it.
I've been asked to post the offer. Here it is....



*FALL SALE!*
Inventory Blowout

Save $100's

We need space for 2009 products! This equals great savings to you and your friends right now.

Items to clear by Nov. 28th

20 New 2008 Stock bikes
click to see list
100's of parts and accessories
click to see list
Blowout Sale Details:

Order a 2008 Stock Bike Friday and get 50% off your choice of 2 accessories. Available while supplies last, so call soon!

Fall Specials available for new bikes also. Call for details!
Call 1-800-777-0258 and mention magic code #1524.
Find your local Friday Dealer here

Lynette Chiang
Bike Friday Customer Evangelist
BIKE FRIDAY. PERFORMANCE THAT PACKS
http://www.bikefriday.com
3364 West 11th Ave Eugene, OR, 97402, USA
Phone 800-777-0258 | Fax 541-687-0403 | Cell 541-513-7711
Australia: +61 420 968 967 (Cell), +61 2 9327 8630 (Sydney)
Email: lynettec@bikefriday.com
Personal Website:
http://www.galfromdownunder.com

I believe you can get a NWT with front suspension if that is important to you.

I'd go for a Xootr Swift. The fold is not great, but you can definitely fit it in a car trunk. Stiff frame, decent quality components, lots of standard parts, reasonably light, much less expensive than a BF (though it isn't custom).

Have you looked at the Dahon mini-bikes? I have a HammerHead and I can get it in my car boot/trunk by dropping the front wheel and saddle. Oh, and the pedals which are quick release.

It doesn't fold, but it's very compact, and the real clincher is that it rides like a large bike. It would also be easy to bling it up a bit once you have decided if you like it or not. The suspension fork is just right for the purpose, but I think they have done away with that now.

I've got lots of bikes bikes, some of which are several times the price of the HammerHead, but I'd get rid of them before I would part with the HammerHead.

Since op Driver88 lives in Europe, BikeFriday and Xootr Swift are less feasible, though both would be good choices otherwise.

My advice would be to look for a pre-owned Brompton 6-speed in very good condition, try it out for a while, and if it doesn't fit the bill, resell it ... probably for at or near the same amount, if the op maintains it well.

A 6-speed Brompton meets these criteria:

-- not too heavy and 'naked' (no racks, fenders etc)
-- RECREATIONAL, TOURING, FITNESS & no off road

Regards
T

Thanks, everybody, for the input.

Brompton is of course a very interesting alternative. I did testride one, a few years ago, then 5 minutes later made a ride on a Birdy, and was impressed more by the Birdy. But as stated before: the Birdy is just too expensive, and the 18inch wheels, I don't like them.

Brommies don't look as sleek and sporty as a BF or Birdy, but on the quality aspect they do score high.

Gonna check out the Brommies once more...

Sleek? You want sleek? :)

http://www.littlepixel.info/twenty/mercton_lp.jpg

Regards
T

P.S. And the camera always adds a few pounds.

I didn't know Ferrari makes folders !!!:love:

Since you are not going off road and you want sporty-naked, then I would suggest the Pocket-Rocket. I have one and it is as fast and sporty as anybody could want. I've done one century and several metric centuries.

Bike-Friday's customer support is first class, even in Europe. You need to contact them to find where you can go for a test ride. Quality is such that you should not need much in the way of support. In addition I would stick to standard bike components and stay away from stuff like the Sachs 3X8 hubs, which seem to need more care. Using standard components like rear and front dérailleurs makes your bike easier to maintain and parts easier to find locally.

Good luck at what ever you choose.

Thanks ! I contacted the only dealer already, it's 55 miles from where I live, but as soon as they can give me an idea on prices (in Euro) I will go for a ride. Too bad a Pocket Rocket is not available for testing. They do have the Tikit and NWT ready for a testride. The Tikit is great for commuting, but that's not what I'll be using it for, so a ride on the NWT will be the only option.

Even at that, I think the quality of the build and the ride will impress you. If they can order a custom PR for you then you're set.

so... what exactly is the discount?
i called today and was offered one of the pre-owned listed on their webpage, at that price... with free shipping...

and for the 50% off two accessories... what would be the best deals?

Your description is a perfect fit for a tricked up Swift. Get some nice thin tires on there (I'm running 1.5" Stelvios at around 100PSI), cleats and some drop / butterfly bars - the ride is simply amazing. I sped home tonight absolutely loving my Swift despite the rain - particularly now that I've oiled the quick release catches and it all works so smoothly. And it fits in the truck / boot.

Jonathan

+1

The Swift is a simply amazing bike to ride.

I haven't ridden a Swift. But I love my Bike Friday Pocket Rocket Pro. I did not ride one before I ordered it, but I did ride a NWT just to get an idea. I used to have a Dahon Matrix (26" wheels) and it was very heavy and the folding mechanism gave me problems.

I took my PRP to Europe and got alot of positive comments about it there. I think they would sell in Europe if they were more available, but since they are built in Oregon, the shipping might make the price too high.

Hi bokes,

I currently ride an '06 Speed P8 and am considering a Pocket Llama (as I understand it, this is basically a NWT, but able to fit larger wheels); may I ask what it is that you think makes the BF more fun to ride? Thanks!

Terry

I'm sure you'll get different answers to that question, but for me it is the ride quality.

Think of it this way ... Have you ever ridden a low quality bike, maybe one sold at a discount department store? Then went and rode your first Bike Shop quality bike. How was the difference? To me it was a HUGE difference. My average speed went from about 10 mph to 15 mph instantly and I did not work near as hard.

That is what the difference is to me.

When I decided to invest in my first folder, I had already been riding for 10 years and had two full sized, good quality bikes. I was a bit unsure about what to expect with a folder, so I tried several. The quality of the Bike-Friday was immediately evident. That was for a basic, low-end bike friday model called the "Metro". It was at that time BF's cheapest model and it performed better than any of the folder's I had test ridden. To me, it was the difference between a lowly discount store bicycle, and a high quality bicycle sold at a proper shop.

There is also the added bonus of the bike being custom built for you.

Now I will admit, I have not test ridden some models like the speed 8 or a swift. I have heard that quality has improved since my initial test rides. So maybe that quality gap I mentioned is not as dramatic.

I've since sold that first Bike-Friday and upgraded to the Pocket-Rocket. LOVE IT!!

I see that there are Xootr Swifts for sale in the UK for not much more ($765) than they cost in the US ($700).

The Swift's ride is as excellent as the Brompton fold.

The Swift has a relatively stubby stem-riser, no hinge in the main tube, and the rear triangle sweeps out to 132mm; these features add up to a beautifully stiff ride. The Brompton has a lot of spring in the bars in large part because of its long stem riser.

If racks and fenders and similar amenities are important for the type of touring you do, the Brompton is, far and away, a much more convenient tourer than the Swift.

The Brompton is more easily taken with you in every travel scenario...car, bus, train, air. The Swift folds as rapidly as a well-trained greyhound will sit! ... but it is also about the same size as a very large greyhound even when the bike is folded.

The Swift uses standard component dimensions for the most part and, as a result, it is one of the most readily customized folding bikes on the market.

The Swift can be outfitted with a Thudbuster seatpost and the comfort of the rear suspension will then be comparable to the Brompton's. This is a ~$165 upgrade. Should you want to further optimize your Swift for comfort not for speed, a longer stem riser is available for the Swift (~$25) for a more upright riding position, approximating the rider's position on the Brompton S-type; also swap-in some handlebars with rise, and you can approximate the riding position of the Brompton outfitted with gull-wing bars.

In my opinion, one of the greatest shortcomings of the Swift is its lack of braze-on cable-stops. Cable stops could make it much easier to change the bars to suit your mood/purpose, and to pack the bike up for a journey.

Regards
T

To me the Dahon S8 feels like I'm riding a folding bike, while the BF feels like a full size bike that just happens to have smaller wheels. The BF feels more solid. But don't take my word for it, try one out first. The BF company might be able to set you up with an owner for a demo.

Also, If you're considering a Llama, did you see my post in the recent NWT vs Llama thread? (I've owned both)
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=479890