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Tikit versus Brompton?

Old 12-22-08, 09:16 AM
  #26  
feijai
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Originally Posted by iamstuffed View Post
Also, on the Tikit, the chainring is still precariously close to your pant leg while rolling, unless you roll it from the right, keeping the chainring guard between your pant leg and the chain.
Hmmmm. I've rolled the Tikit a *lot* and have never once even *thought* of that as an issue. I guess I can see how you could have a rolling style which puts you near the chainring, but for me the chainring has always been at least a foot away. Interesting.

I've had a couple incidences where the bike tipped over or became lopsided, and I had to clean the chain grease off white carpet.
It looks like you don't have the rear rack, which makes the bike radically stabler, and better looking and more functional too. $50. [BTW, I forget, were you the one in DC I was talking to last summer about getting the rack off of my size-Large before I returned it?]

The Tikit, at least the older ones (one of which, I have), needs adjustments out the wazoo to keep it locked while folded and to keep it stable while folded. I have an older style Tikit, and constantly have to keep bending the locking latch that clicks to lock the bike while folded. If it becomes too relaxed, it won't stay folded if I lift the bike. Newer style Tikits have a different latch mechanism, but I doubt it's dramatically better.
They are, and I believe dramatically so. I have never once adjusted the dinosaur on my 2008 (that's what BF calls the locking latch in-house).

BTW, if you're interested, there's now videos for adjusting the dinosaur on the 2007 (which I guess needs it), transitionary 2007-2008, and 2008 tikits.

Last edited by feijai; 12-22-08 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 12-22-08, 09:35 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
It looks like you don't have the rear rack, which makes the bike radically stabler, and better looking and more functional too. $50.
I do have the rear rack but I haven't posted any of the newer photos. My dad and I both ordered the racks at the same time and it does help stabilize the bike, but mine is still more finicky than his. I don't know if that's entirely because of the latch or the age and use of my bike compared to his new one.
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Old 12-22-08, 11:41 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by iamstuffed View Post
I have both a Tikit and a Brompton. Having ridden both, here are some thoughts.

1. Even though the Tikit can be rolled around while folded, you need forearms the size of Popeye's to roll it any significant distance. The weight distribution of the Tikit when folded forces the bike to lean to one side, forcing the rider to twist to keep it level to roll. The Brompton, with OEM rollers, sucks to roll while folded even more. I put roller blade wheels instead of the EZ Wheels on the Brompton and I prefer to roll the Brompton than the Tikit. My girlfriend rolls her Brompton everywhere and she weighs 112 lbs. It really is effortless on the Brompton. Also, on the Tikit, the chainring is still precariously close to your pant leg while rolling, unless you roll it from the right, keeping the chainring guard between your pant leg and the chain.

2. People keep dismissing the size difference between the two as insignificant. I consider the size difference incredible for my uses. I can fit only one Tikit into the trunk of my VW Golf. I can fit my TWO bromptons and still have room for at least one more in the same trunk. I could probably stick a fourth one in there, but I have not tried it. People keep spitting off dimensions of the Tikit while folded, without the front rack!

3. The Tikit's chainring is very close to the ground while folded. I've had a couple incidences where the bike tipped over or became lopsided, and I had to clean the chain grease off white carpet. I've never had that issue with the Brompton. Even though people would not put a bike on lighter color carpet, it's something to consider.

4. The Tikit, at least the older ones (one of which, I have), needs adjustments out the wazoo to keep it locked while folded and to keep it stable while folded. I have an older style Tikit, and constantly have to keep bending the locking latch that clicks to lock the bike while folded. If it becomes too relaxed, it won't stay folded if I lift the bike. Newer style Tikits have a different latch mechanism, but I doubt it's dramatically better. It's still a latch that slides over a peg and locks. It's still a piece of metal that bends to lock. My dad has the newer style, so I guess I can try it out next time I visit him. I have the rear rack too, and while it helps stabilize the bike while folded, if the ground is anything but level, it's a pain to keep it upright. The Brompton is very stable while folded, but since I put roller wheels, I need to place it in such a way that it doesn't roll away

I modified the Tikit by replacing almost every component with standard bike parts from online retailers and local bike shops. I can't do that with the Brompton, which is a pain in my butt, since I want to modify the gearing.

Both are great bikes. I've ridden the Tikit on a metric century and my girlfriend rode her Brompton. After that experience, I can tell you that I'll never ride a Tikit or a Brompton on a metric again! Out of the two, I like riding the Tikit for longer faster rides and the Brompton for shorter more casual rides.
Good to hear from you Iamstuffed , and a balanced report.

The BIG difference I noticed was how Flexible the Tikit feels compared to the Brompton, especially the Stem area. This is more the surprising when the riding position of the Tikit is much more aimed at touring and speed, in town I'd choose a much more upright riding position. My riding style out of town is to pull on the bars when climbing etc. and this is fine with regular bikes, as well as the folders I've owned, but I think I'd have to adopt more of a 'change down and spin' approach if I got a Tikit, to avoid the stem flex. I am surprised no one has mentioned this. Disclaimer: I own a Brompton, and have test ridden a Tikit.
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Old 12-22-08, 02:31 PM
  #29  
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Brompton Test-ride Report

As promised, I stopped by Bikes@Vienna (a great store) and test-rode two brand-new Bromptons: an M3L (higher handlebars) and an S2L, both with rear racks, hubs, and the locking latch option which keeps the rear triangle attached to the bike when riding. I brought along my Tikit and two tape measures. I also brought along a friend who's ridden neither bike because I wanted an objective opinion independent of my own biases. And his opinion, before I offered mine, jibed with mine more or less exactly.

The rear latch on the Brompton does a fine job of keeping the triangle from completely coming out when going off curbs etc., though I was surprised that it permitted some play. No biggie. So anyway, that's a non-issue.

Jur is right, there is no difference in the crank heights. With no load, the Brompton is the same crank height as the Tikit (about 11 inches). When you sit on the Brompton, it decreases by 3/4 inch, so it's lower than the Tikit. In fact, I more easily ran the risk of scraping the pavement on the Brompton with the pedals.

The bikes have nearly identical wheelbases.

The bikes weigh about the same.

When folded, the Tikit's not so much bigger than the Brompton than I had thought. Maybe barely 150%. But there's no doubt that the Brompton's package is elegant, and the Tikit's folded package looks like a mess of metal.

While biking on the Brompton, I almost hit a parked car with the M3L. I stopped fast and the rear of the bike lifted enough to almost put me over the front wheel. I've never had that happen on me with the Tikit. It didn't give me a good feeling.

I expected the Bromptons to have a smoother ride than the Tikit given their rear suspension. But wasn't the case! The tikit is a smoother ride over brickwork etc.

As it doesn't telescope, the Brompton's got a much stiffer stem than the Tikit.

I was less than impressed with all the custom stuff on the Brompton. The bike was solid. The gear shifters didn't feel industrial grade. And that's saying a lot given the Tikit's cheapo shifter.

The Tikit was indeed much stabler than the Brompton. Its steering is quite a bit less squirrely. It's much easier to ride with no hands, to steer stably, and to steer while out of the seat.

And now to the big item: handlebar to seat distance. Even with the Brompton's seat pushed clear back at maximum, my Tikit's distance is almost four inches longer. Now, I have a size-Medium Tikit with a size-Large horizontal Stem, with the seat pushed back a bit. A standard Size-Medium stem, and normal seat position, is two inches shorter than my Tikit. A size-Small is two inches shorter still. So a Brompton M3L at maximum size appears to be about the same as a size-Small Tikit! I was told that there are no options that would allow the handlebars to be canted forwards on the Brompton without affecting the fold. Is this correct?

The result was that the Brompton M3L was quite cramped and upright for me compared to the Tikit. More cramped feeling even than my Dahons. The store suggested I try the S2L, which has a shorter stem and so would feel a bit "longer" (because I'm tilted *down*). I'm used to low-riding bikes: I have a mountain bike with extremely low bars. But I found the highly tilted position necessary to ride the S2L basically unrideable for my height (5'11"). It felt dangerous.

I should mention that my friend, who has pretty short arms, had less of a cramped feeling than I did on the M3L but still preferred the Tikit. He thought the Brompton felt "wobbly".

Summary. We both thought the Tikit was quite a bit stabler feeling than the Brompton, and had a rather better riding position. And, unexpectedly, was smoother.

Last edited by feijai; 12-27-08 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 12-22-08, 03:31 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
... I was told that there are no options that would allow the handlebars to be canted forwards on the Brompton without effecting the fold. Is this correct?...
No, you have been misinformed. The M and P-typ bar can be tilted for- and backwards slightly, secured in this position and the bike still will fold fine. However this is only true for some small degrees. For a more forward handlebar position the s-stem is the best option: add an aberhallo stem or the syntace-clamps and a quick release and you get more reach: see what Littlepixel has shown so nicely: a Littlepixel™ stem QR clip" -
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=16
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=16

If the s-typ is too low, it is no problem to change the flat bar for a moderate riser since this is a standard measure: 25,4 mm.

Originally Posted by feijai View Post
The store suggested I try the S2L, which has a shorter stem and so would feel a bit "longer" (because I'm tilted *down*)...
No, not correct: the s-typ has not a shorter stem than the m-model but a longer stem! About 8 cm longer. The reason why the reach feels longer is because the effective top tube on the s-typ is longer since the s-stem bends a lot more forward than the m-stem does.

Last edited by somnatash; 12-22-08 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 12-22-08, 05:26 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by somnatash View Post
No, you have been misinformed. The M and P-typ bar can be tilted for- and backwards slightly, secured in this position and the bike still will fold fine.
Sure, but so far as I could tell, not enough to make any difference WRT the comparison to the Tikit, correct?

If the s-typ is too low, it is no problem to change the flat bar for a moderate riser since this is a standard measure: 25,4 mm.
Well, that'd defeat the purpose. We were going for more perceptive length enabled by the lower angle.

No, not correct: the s-typ has not a shorter stem than the m-model but a longer stem! About 8 cm longer.
I think I may have misspoken: I meant the *effective* stem length. The S2L handlebar position was definitely *much* lower than the M3L, even if the actual stem portion is longer.

Cool to see some aftermarket stuff to improve the handlebar situation.

Last edited by feijai; 12-23-08 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 12-22-08, 10:47 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Summary. We both thought the Tikit was quite a bit stabler feeling than the Brompton, and had a rather better riding position. And, unexpectedly, was smoother.
I don't think its fair to say that one is really "better" than the other. They are completely different kinds of bikes:
The Brompton is a miniature English 3-speed, no doubt shrunken from old age.
The Tikit is a minature hybrid.

Enjoy.
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Old 12-23-08, 06:52 AM
  #33  
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Is there a marked difference in flex between the twiddly-knob Tikit and the hyperfold/cable-activated Tikit? That is, does the cable contribute to the flex, so that the twiddly knob version is stiffer? If the cable does add flex, is there a difference in stiffness between the old cable and the new cable versions?
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Old 12-23-08, 09:59 AM
  #34  
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Stupidly, I didn't compare the model T (which Bike@Vienna had) with my tikit in terms of stiffness. But my understanding is:

Model T > Single-cable Hyperfold >>> Multi-cable Hyperfold
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Old 12-26-08, 03:58 PM
  #35  
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The Bike Friday Tikit is steel like the Raleigh Twenty. They share the same looks.
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Old 12-27-08, 05:35 PM
  #36  
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Hi,

I thought I'd chime in just a bit, if I may , concerning my article comparing the Tikit to the Bromptom.

Originally Posted by LWaB View Post
Anatoly's comparison is just one person's opinion.
Absolutely. As I say on my web site I specialize in opinionated, subjective journalism.

Originally Posted by bykerouac View Post
While Anatoly has some excellent opinions, it is by no means true for everyone.
Thanks . And I agree. Test ride both bikes as much as possible before you buy.

Originally Posted by cyclistjohn View Post
Sadly, that is a second hand report. I've been riding a Brompton for the past 3 months, & as the model I have has a mere 3 gears, I've found on some uphills it's easier to stand out of the saddle. That feels no different than doing the same on big wheel bikes. Maybe the original reporter is exceptionally tall?
Uhmm... No, I'd say pretty standard. I'm 1 m 80 cm (5.9").

I ride out of the saddle on my modified Brompton every day. And well, it lacks that "on rails" feeling. My opinion resembles that of quite a few other Brompton owners, but I've never intended to quantify or quote user feedback.

In my case, Iíve chosen the Brompton folder specifically for its folded compactness and its ability to travel on my back in a rucksack.
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Old 12-27-08, 07:40 PM
  #37  
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I see the Brompton. I see the rucksack. I see no Ivanov, let alone his back. Really, though - a bike on its rider instead of the rider on its bike? Maybe someone will cross-breed a Bromptikit. Now that would be interesting!
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Old 12-27-08, 07:58 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by chainstrainer View Post
I see the Brompton. I see the rucksack. I see no Ivanov, let alone his back.
Normal! I'm a photographer, so I'm almost always on the other side of the camera!
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Old 12-27-08, 08:30 PM
  #39  
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Surely you have a self-timer? Remote release? Ah! Camera shy?
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Old 12-28-08, 12:59 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by chainstrainer View Post
Surely you have a self-timer? Remote release?
Yeah, I have all these... The problem is composition.

I'm a perfectionist. I guess I'd need to connect a huge plasma display and then shoot tethered, so I could see the framing and be in front of the lens at the same time.

Easier to find someone to carry the backpack. Do you really need this picture?

Originally Posted by chainstrainer View Post
Ah! Camera shy?
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