vmaniqui

hi all,

a newbie here and my first post. accidentally found your site and subscribed to the forum as i think this is one of the best folder forums out there. anyway for my question - i will be starting to ride bike but needed a recomendation on the Citizen Folding Bike. i am cheap as i need it to go from my house to the bus station to ride the bus that will take me to the bart train. so my total travel distance will only be about 2-3 miles one way. so i wouldn't be needing an expensive bike. anyone have ridden or have an experience with the Citizen folding bike. are they really comfortable to carry when in a folding bike bag ? anything i need to consider when buyong one? i know that they are the cheapest but would appreciate any input.

TIA,
vic

vmaniqui

hi all,

as a follow-up - i scanned all the threads and found one regarding the Citizen Folding bike. i guess i am ok for now. thanks for looking at my post though........

vic

invisiblehand

are you planning on taking the bike onto the train? if you don't need the bike on the other end, just get a clunker and lock it up at the station.

DVC45

Read the Flying Pigeon thread. It might be what you need.

EvilV

Also - if the ride is flat, consider one of the fake strida 5 copies that there are around. You can fold it to the size of a golf bag in seven seconds. It weighs only twenty pounds and has a clean toothed rubber/kevlar belt rather than a dirty chain. I got one REALLY cheap on ebay and it came with a bag to put it in. BE CAREFUL though - they are made by different manufacturers in China and some of them are dogs, others are very good - like mine. For £110 I can not fault it and I am riding it every day.


This one is the same source I got mine from:
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-In-B...|39:1|240:1318

BruceMetras

Great EvilV, just curious... as a consummate connoisseur of replica-ware, what are the differences between the dog knockoff's and the high end knockoff's such as you possess ?

EvilV

Well Bruce, I have read accounts of copy Stridas which were badly made and unserviceable out of the box. I think there are accounts buried around this forum of them in the fake strida threads. I also read of one where the top ball joint collapsed and dumped the rider as he set off to ride. There are several factories turning these out in China and I only have one example. Someone else here has one from the same source and he said pretty much same as me.

Mine is entirely serviceable in my opinion. I've ridden it about 160 miles and apart from one or two adjustment issues out of the box, it has been pretty good. It is strongly made, stiff framed and pretty nicely presented with good paintwork. It just functions in a decent manner.

I'm not blind to some of its shortcomings at all. I'll list them:

Wheels needed minor truing up out of the box
Brakes functioned, but not properly adjusted. I reset the cable and the braking was transformed. The brakes work well, but will need to be kept adjusted.
The hex screws in non-critical functions are not high quality
The belt was too tightly adjusted for maximum efficiency. Easily solved.
Plastic shelled bottom bracket creaked at first. Lightly oiled the interface between the BB and frame and solved completely.
I broke the luggage rack when I dropped the rear frame when demonstrating the fold. Query the plastic used - however other accounts of dropping genuine Stridas reveal breakage of plastic parts too.

The bikes strengths are attributable to the designer's work. The riding position once you get used to it is great for city riding and very comfortable since I bought a padded seat. I can easily ride it twelve miles without the least discomfort and could do more without doing penance. The bike is silent, nimble, stiff framed and sure on the road. It's parts are perfectly functional and as far as I can say ought to be durable. Tyres are smooth riding and robust. Inner tubes are made of very strong rubber - about twice as thick as most tubes. The ride is surprisingly forgiving, much more so than my B knockoff.

This is the cheapest bike I have bought just about ever since 1970 and I am smiling from ear to ear as I ride it. I do get frustrated when it spins out on a downhill at about 13mph and feel a bit silly with my legs whirling away for such a speed, but that's in the genetics of the design. I'm loving it. If it breaks in some horrible way, I'll be sure to let everyone know. I tell as I find.

This guy 'Ringo' on the Strida forum bought from the same source as me. Check out his pictures ->
https://www.stridaforum.com/forum/vie...&sd=a&start=30

EvilV

S h * t

I have four broken spokes in the rear wheel! Just came back after a blast around the town and thought I heard some rear wheel clicking going on. I think I'll get it rebuilt properly. That's annoying.

badmother

Must be the extra 10 kgs Now you know why I use BMX wheels.

makeinu

I can't understand what all the controversy is about.

Seems like a case of frankenstein to me. Mark Sanders designed the Strida to be easy to manufacture and affordable and so it is!

KitN

Hi,

I just purchased a Citizen folding bike. I ordered the Tokyo version in silver. I commute all around NYC with it even in the snow, ice, freezing rain and slush. I also purchased a bike bag for it so that I can fold it up and carry it in the bag or throw it into a shopping cart.

My Tokyo is 29 lbs with the front and back fenders and the rear rack. I don't mind the weight. Small wheels = smaller folded footprint which was very important to me. I didn't want a folder with anything bigger than 16" wheels so getting the higher priced models (with larger wheels) wasn't an option for me. (I would have gladly gotten the highest priced model, the Gotham which is alloy and lighter, if they sold it with a 16" wheel option).

If 20" wheels are fine for you, I would suggest you go for the Gotham model. It has a higher class of Shimano deraileur/gears, an alloy frame and is lighter. If you plan on biking in any wet conditions, I would suggest you add the fender/rack kit for $17. I believe it adds about 2-3 lbs of weight to the overall weight of the bike but since the Gotham is only 23 lbs to begin with, it's not a problem.

My Citizen rides quite well. It folds easily and is simple to put in it's carry bag. I did have a problem with the seat stem's build quality. Pieces of aluminum was flaking off and the saddle/seat had a few scuff and a tiny hole in it on the side. I contacted Citizen by email and they promptly replied, replacing the offending seat post and saddle using FedEx. The replacement parts arrived within 3 days of emailing them. They also included a FREE seat bag for my trouble, I guess. I have to admit that Citizen has EXCELLENT customer service. They are prompt, friendly, informative and very nice people.

The first thing I would suggest you do when you get your Citizen is to take it to your LBS to adjust the gearing and brakes or if you are knowledgeable about this sort of thing, you can do it yourself. It's not that there is a problem with any Citizen bikes, it's just that ANY bike that comes directly from the manufacturer, straight out of a box, should be tuned. Normally, if you buy a bike from your LBS they assemble it and tune it for you but since Citizen is a maufacturer that ships the bike directly to you it will need to be tuned.

The bike comes fully assembled. All you have to do is unfold, attatch one of the peddles, adjust the seat and handlebar height and tune the gears/brakes. That's it!

All of Citizen bikes come with 6 gears which is incredibly handy. (My last folder, which was stolen the day after Xmas, only had one speed.) The gearing is of decent range but does focus a little bit more on lower gears which helps greatly if you have any hills to hit.

The build quality of my bike is very good. It's a solid commuting bike. I'm very pleased so far with it's construction. It's one of the best "bangs" for your buck that you can get for a solid folder.

You would be wise to check out purchasing a Citizen if you are looking to maximize your dollars while getting a solid folding bike with very nice features (like fenders, rack, Shimano gearing, and 6 speeds).

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. I hope you enjoy your Citizen bike.

KitN

Again, I have the 16" wheeled model, the Tokyo. It folds easily and fits snuggly in it's bag. The bag is bigger than you might think but fits over your shoulder without a problem. I've folded my Tokyo, put it in it's bag then put the whole thing in a shopping car and did some shopping at Target. No one bothered me and security didn't even bat an eye or raise a protest in the slightest.

Obviously, the 20" models will take up more real real estate so if you want a slightly smaller package and don't mind a few extra pounds, you can go for the Tokyo but if the 20" wheels are not an issue, you should definitely consider the Gotham.

EvilV

Totally right. The last bike I got that didn't need a service from new was bought about 1990 from a LBS and cost a fortune. It was a Dawes Galaxy Tourer and it was perfect from the off, but boy did I pay for it. Even the TSR30 needed the gears tuning and that was a very pricey one.

EvilV

Actually, I think I have been hearing clicks from the back wheel when powering along for a day or two - maybe thirty miles. I have experienced this with another bike which broke five spokes. It is ALWAYS essential to properly investigate ANY funny sound. They always have a cause and if it is unusual, there is a good reason why it is happening, or maybe a BAD one like this - leading to a rash of spoke failure like I have had. My Merc - Brompton copy which had five broken spokes and then no more, all because I didn't spot the cause of a funny clicking noise. Once I sorted the first two broken spokes, three more went in quick succession, which I think were weakened by my continuing to ride on a damaged wheel. Afterwards, once everything was trued and strong, the wheel has been great for maybe 2000 miles.

With this new bike, I might get the whole wheel rebuilt at a folder specialist with new spokes. If I go to my LBS a mile away, they don't know what to do with any wheel of less than 26". About ten miles away there is a folder specialist. I really don't want to have a succession breakages like last time. Reliability is essential in my opinion, and once you have ridden a bike for a while with one or two broken spokes, you can't tell when others will snap through fatigue caused by the wheel being run out of tension. Other spokes get badly stressed by riding with even a single broken spoke. Dscovering four broken at the same time is a bad situation for the others.

Dahon.Steve

I think the OP is one of the few that's actully using bus and train in his multimode commute to work. I hope he gets back and tells us about his folding bike adventures during rush hour. It would be interesting to see if he has any problems boarding the bus with his folder and what solutions he's taken.

If I were him, I'd get the 16' inch wheel folder. The smaller the better.

KitN

I have to agree 100%. This is exactly why I refuse to buy any folder with anything larger than 16" wheels. For portability, the smaller the wheels the better.

badmother

Sounds right. Five spokes in one day of regular riding does not make sense. I guess it started earlyer.

Also you need to be able to trust the bike if you are taking it to spain.

EvilV

I've had to ask a bike shop to make me some spokes. They need to be 125mm and I only have some 150mm ones from my Merc bike. They are charging £1 each to cut and re-thread them from a longer size. That's a fair enough price considering the work. I ordered ten, and will get them on Monday..... I'm wondering how wise my Spanish plan is now.... Maybe I should cover a much greater mileage on this bike before I decide finally which bike to take. The Merc is pretty reliable now having done a large mileage. At least I know what is likely to fail and can take spares. If that spoke problem had happened in the middle of nowhere it would be a real pain in the backside. Fortunately, it's not a problem to replace spokes AS LONG AS YOU HAVE SPARES. I'm not sure how my language skills in Spain would have coped with that.

Of course it was the back wheel that got the problem. The weight distribution is VERY much towards the rear wheel, and also that is the one that provides the power. When my Merc spokes went, two of them happened when I was accelerating from standstill. I heard them snap as I pushed strongly away.

jur

By the time a spoke breaks, it has seen many cycles of slight relaxing and re-tensioning as the spoke goes past BDC. The lower the static tension, the higher the probability a spoke will momentarily lose its tension and that's when the damage happens - metal fatigue sets in rapidly. If the tension is high enough, this won't happen. This is why, seemingly paradoxically, spokes that are too limp will break whereas ones which are very tight will last for ever. The limiting factor to spoke tension lies with the spoke nipples which will round off, and at the rim which will crack.

So your spokes, while they did finally snap at pull-away, were already fatally weakened at that time.

So my call on the strida back wheel is, have all the spokes replaced by a competent wheel builder. They are all suspect due to being machine-built.

badmother

So basically, you are trying to tell us how strong your legs are??

I think you are right about using the bike for some time before taking it on a trip to a remote area. Is it your bike (merc) I`ve seen in a picture with a big front bag (Brompton type)? I wanted to ask you if you could possibly use that front bag on the Strida to get some of the weight in front, but maybe the angle of the front tube is not making it a great idea.

Around here you pay £1 for one spoke, no cutting or threading included so I guess that is what can be expected.

I think you need to get a BMX with ape hangers and longer seattube and those five spoke plastic wheels for this trip, or maybe there is a R20 in your life?

vmaniqui

hi all,

thanks a lot for the great advices. now i am torn between the Stida knockoff or the Citizen. i will be hauling it inside the bus and train so i am taking everyone's advice to buy the 16" or smaller. i will take a great look at the Strida or even the A-bike knockoffs. although i am leaning more towards the Citizen for it's built. i will let everyone know how it goes.

thanks again,
vic

KitN

Hi Vic,

The Strida (official or knockoff) is light and folds easily but does take up a good deal of vertical space but the good thing about it is that you can still wheel it around when it's folded.

The Citizen folds up similar to a Dahon (or Brompton) but is not as compact/tight. It's still a small footprint but it cannot be wheeled around easily like the Strida can. It can be carried bare in the hand or for longer stints folded, can be put into it's carry bag which is what I do.

The A-Bike looks to be a good option for taking on the bus/train but I'm personally weary of those small tires. Here in NYC, they'd be eaten alive on even the most tame of cracks, potholes and street junk. I had a folder with 10" wheels and I had to be VERY careful about where to ride it and what I could and couldn't roll over. I nearly wiped out in heavy traffic and got run over when trying to ride up on a curb that was level with the road going to a gas station!! WTF? Nearly got me killed so I don't trust anything less than 16" wheels for my rides in NYC. Your situation may be very different but it is worth noting that very small wheels are quite limited in what potholes, bumps, cracks, etc., that you can safely ride over.

vmaniqui

hey kitn thanks for the safety advice. i will definitely take that into account when buying one. i am leaning more towards the citizen. my wife also told me to avoid the bike with a small wheel. just a quick question - how cumbersome it is to be lugging the folded citizen in a bus/train. my commute will be - ride the bike for about 2 miles to the bus station then take the bus to bart train. ride the bart train then take another bus that will take me to work. so all in all about 2.5 hours commute for me. i could walk the lenght from my house to the bus station but the problem is i normally go to work 4:30am.....

thanks again,
vic

KitN

Hi Vic,

My Citizen Tokyo, when folded and put into it's bag, isn't the neatest or smallest of folding packages. It does weight about 29 lbs. I have the carrying bag in front of me... Let me measure it for you...

Bike Compartment Measurements:
Length: 27"
Height: 18"
Depth: 12"

Total Measuremets:
From underarm to base of bag: 21"
From base of bag to very top of bag (shoulder strap incl'd): 33"
Width (at it's widest point): 27"
Depth (at it's widest point): 12"

The bag is fully lined on the inside with some sort of plastic coating that protects you, your clothing, fellow passengers and your surroundings from any dirt, mud, water, etc. The bag has a zipper that fully encloses the bike. The bag also has a large zippered pocket on the outside that houses the backback straps. You can use it to put your things in it when you have you bike in the bag. It's pretty neat.

I'm tall, thin but i am recovering from a back injury so I'm a little weak and have to watch my back as to not stress or strain it. I can handle the bike and the bike in the bag for short stints through the train stations here in NYC, on the train, off the train, up and down the stairs, etc. but I definitely feel the weight and try to minimize the time I have it on my shoulder as much as possible. I put it down when waiting for the train, when on the train, etc. I only have it on my shoulder when I'm actually walking.

When I have the carry bag on my shoulder it comes down to mid-thigh, about 6" above my knee. Again, it's not the smallest of folding packages or the lightest but for short periods that it will be on your shoulder, it's tolerable.

I would highly suggest that when you board the bus/train that you find a spot away from the door and place the bag (with bike in it) between your legs or in a spot for storing bikes or a heavy duty luggage rack (realizes that you will be lifting up a 29+ lb package over your head if you choose to put it on an overhead luggage rack).

How crowded are the trains and buses that you take? Are there any designated bike racks or luggage areas to store the bike on the bus and/or train?

Can you handle carrying a package weighing 29 lbs to the train/bus, on the train/bus and off the train/bus?

KitN

I took some pictures for you of my Tokyo when folded and also when it's in it's carrying bag.