piback, so you end up with Brompton with a greater folded width, less handlebar adjustment and sized to fit people with "duck's disease"; not my ultimate folder.

The folded width does remain the same.
Unfortunately there is no adjustment system that is light weight and stiff at the same time. Lightest and stiffest adjustment is obtained by different handlebars.

"Duck disease"? Actually most comfortable riding geometry for touring is widely known to be 0-7cm handlebar below saddle high. This way you get a 45° body angle and optimum weight distribution over feet, butt, and wrest. The saddle-to-bar distance should be approximately 'forearm+hand+fingers + 2. hand width'. Brompton defeats this geometry rules which is its major problem, imho. Its too upright position does cause back problems quite quickly and becomes unstable at faster speed.

Usual xenophobic crap. Len Rubin may be an enthusiast but he is still basing his UFB concept around the core design of Brompton's founder Andrew Ritchie. While it might be one amazing bike they have no right to promote with Brompton's brand mentioned in the word 'Super Brompton'. That's piggybacking and perhaps it would be wise for Len to desist from using such a word when launching the UFB.

It's great to see such innovations and it's obviously aimed at wealthy enthusiasts of folding bikes. Better to see monied people buying such a piece of engineering than some horrible monster of a vehicle like a hummer or 4WD.

Having said that, I notice some Brompton knockers jumping on the bandwagon. The Brompton is good value for money in the long-term and the most trouble-free bicycle I've ever had. I'm not a Bromptonite and also have 2 Dahons; a Mu SL and a Cadenza 08. Having said that the Brompton is my my favourite and the best money I ever spent on any type of gadget. I'm about to have some nice mods completed to it including the inclusion of an 8 speed Shimano Alfine hub shortly. It might not make it a superlight bike but thenI don't need it to be superlight version as I only carry it short distances and can opt to roll it. It certainly won't cost me $10-12,000 and it will be just as good in its own right to cycle.

At the end of the day Brompton knockers no matter what you think it still remains one of the finest proper compact folding bikes in the world. I'd like to state for the record Len Rubin's concept is no hoax. It's clever refinement and materials work. Just drop the brand piggybacking and most of us will wish the Rubins all the best!

PS I'd like to add the UFB is not what the Brompton 'should be'. Most of us could not afford such a version whilst most of us can afford a Brompton if we save up. It's all about accessability. There's room for premium editions but the critics of the Brompton continue the old hack cliches and they usually come from the other side of the Atlantic pond. Very predictable!

For those of us built a little taller, a Brompton does provide a reasonable saddle to handlebar height. Both Mrs LWaB and myself have ridden over 200 km in a day on Bromptons and 'tkatzir' of this forum has done the 1200 km Paris-Brest-Paris on one. Len Rubin's adjustable stem gives the smallest folding size and a worthwhile range of saddle to handlebar distances. Try riding his bike, the stem is surprisingly good, probably because it was not engineered for the lowest possible cost as with most adjustable stems. YMMV.

I don't see how supporting one's local community is 'crap' or a phobia.

Kam

Good point actually. I scanned through the pdf of the history (far too many gratuitous exclamation marks!!! :p ) but I seem to recall they are good friends. As long as Rubin's bike does not compete in the same market, "Super-Brompton" is a compliment of sorts, acknowledging the UFB's pedigree.

(You do seem touchy this morning, my friend of the thunder-calves. :roflmao2: )

Are the Super Bromptons built on top of a donor Bromptons or are they manufactured from scratch?

Kam

No it isn't xenophobic to buy local but implying the ideas behind the UFB project to be 100% American is wrong. Secondly what's wrong with spending some money in the UK economy? We buy lots of your products and don't complain about it, thanks very much! Thirdly a number (not all I stress) of you in the US are very quick to come up with criticisms of Brompton's flaws and what they should do and shouldn't do as a company. At the end of the day it's an honest small business that makes very good folding bikes. No-one in America has to buy them if they don't like the price or features, as does any consumer. But they are hugely popular in the UK, especially London now and they don't copy anybody else. They even recommend prospective buyers check out the websites of their main competition before making a purchase decision. They also manufacture locally in London and that's makes a change from a British or any perspective given all the outsourcing and FDI that exists these days at the expense of local employment and sometimes even quality. I'm not against outsourcing overseas but I'm against it becoming a fashion for every company in existence. It's fine for a company such as Downtube or bring some very nice Chinese made bikes to the market at keen prices. My 1st folder was a Downtube and enabled me to get on the folding bike ladder.

That's why I applaud socially run but commercial businesses such as Brompton and Bike Friday who bring handbuilt durable quality and innovative folding bikes to the market at a fair enough price. Both marques will last a lifetime and fold beautifully and ride relatively well. They aren't the only good companies but I like what they make and what they stand for.

As far as i can recall the seatpost is used to lock the frame when it is in the folded position, so if you do without the telescoping you will need to find another locking mechanism. It is one of the Brompton's design strengths that when folde it is actually locked into one solid lump with nothing loose or flapping about.

Hello Jur! Long time no speak! No you are right it is a compliment of sorts to Brompton and as long as they've sought permission then it is a positive for both the UFB concept and Brompton. Absolutely it's a different upper niche segment that Brompton probably have no interest in.

Touchy? Perhaps a little lol but when you read the usual cliches about spendng money in England or what 'Brompton should be' I have some strong things to say back lol!

Exactly! It's easy to fire off criticisms without ever truly knowing the Brompton or using it on a regular basis. I'm not saying it's beyond criticism but some of the usual Brompton knocking gets very predictable after a while. I've long said Brompton could be a little more adventurous and progressive on some aspects such as a new 6 speed shifter design and slightly more hub options. However, overall they are a great company who makes a great folding bike built to last and it latches togther beautifully as Diode rightly points out. By the way who said that Brompton don't offer a telescopic seat post?

It's not bad at all. But it is still kind of hack, not 'ultimate'. Giving the stem a more forward angle instead would eliminate the need for that extra stem. Less weight. Less folding time. Less complexity. Optimized in every detail and reduced to only what is the truly necessary is what an 'ultimate' folding bike should be like.

Regarding the telescoping seatpost, yes, that is exactly the point. It double serves to lock the rear. But for larger people it has to be telescoping. Only way out clearing this up seems to have a slightly higher main tube. Thinking this further, you get to slightly bigger wheels, 18" or 20". Also the handlepost becomes shorter and stiffer (the uberlong and wobbly handlepost is the main problem of folding bikes, imho). To optimize folding size, a simple tuck under fold doesn't work then. This is why Bike Friday, Mezzpo, or Birdy do a slightly asymmetric fold-under sideways. But this makes the package too wide. So the answer of Dahon was the Curl, a Brompton-Friday-mix fold but with 18" wheels and main tube curling in between the wheels. I like this idea - but seemingly this concept is not mature yet. Maybe there are some other ways to go. Still lots of space left for more ideas and innovations to come.

Fortunately, there is always someone willing to pay a fortune for something they believe to be 'the ultimate'... no matter what that costs. Then, when something better comes along - carbon-fibre, for example, they'll be first in the queue again.

And for what? Just to say you've got one. Most of us could probably lose 5lb personal weight and achieve the same effect. Good luck with the drooling!

Well said!

+1

Agree with you.

Well on my limited 54 kg weight, if I remove 5lb, people will think that I arrived from a 2 dimension universe !

I can't imagine improving on titanium in durability/weight ratio. It should last forever and if all the consumable parts are standard then the total cost of ownership over 30-50 years could actually be lower than a Brompton. To me, it seems like a good product, but to invest so much in unproven enhancements/features is too risky. So for now I'll leave it to the playboys.

On the other hand, one could just spend $2000 on an equivalent nonfolder and invest the other $10,000 in a "bribe fund" for train conductors and security guards. :p Or $3000 on a good roadie, $2000 on a good Brompton, and pick the right tool for the job.

Yeah... but what if a 16.5 lb super brompton is the right tool for the job. Just sayin'.

I mean... it will never be the right tool for the job for me because I can never afford it... but it could be the right tool for someone. I wish Len the best of luck... and I hope that some day his ideas get picked up by Brompton for their bikes (which I can probably afford with a little belt tightening).

--sam

When do you think it would be the right tool for the job?

I must be either really smart or incredibly dumb when it comes to managing money because I could easily afford one and I see signs on the subway asking people to support welfare programs for families at my income level (granted I don't have a family to support, but still). But I'm having a hard time imagining the UFB doing more than an appropriate selection of 3 or 4 high end specialist bikes.

I think the key is that you don't have a family to support. I've heard they can get really expensive, really fast. Not unlike certain "super" bikes. ;)

As for the right tool for the job... What if the right tool is an ultra-lightweight multi-modal commuter with good gearing. Most folders can handle the multi-modal part. Some can handle the decent gearing. Some can handle the ultra-lightweight bit. However, there are few that can do all of that. My guess is that this "super brompton" can probably handle that with few, if any, compromises.

I still can't afford it... and even if I could afford it, I could easily convince myself to use that money for something else. That doesn't mean that someone out there won't buy it. As a matter of fact, I suspect that the bikes will sell.

--sam

Maybe one would need to purchase another cheaper bike as well so the armed guard to prevent bike jacking can ride alongside you. Maybe two armed guards would be better. They could ride one either side like when GWB went out on his mountain bike, or they could follow on in a hummer with a top gun at the ready.

Do you need armed guards with you so not to be in imprisoned by the counterfitt bike police?

What's counterfeit about it? The one they just sold on eBay was a Brompton- with many mods. The UFB is not, nor is it described as such, it's built from scratch, though it clearly follows the original design template. If Brompton had a problem with Len, they'd have sued by now. And I quote from the PDF :"I was invited to be a Keynote Speaker at the first “Folder Forum” in Weymouth, England [where I first met Andrew Ritchie in person, who—despite my being forewarned might disapprove of the modifications and reinterpretation I had visited upon his noble-yet-humble Brompton design—greeted me with genuine interest and was quite generously supportive, as he has continued to be over the years. [One employee of the company later quipped over a beer, “sure—youʼre our free R&D department!”)]".

I did say this is the bike Brompton should be building 'in many respects'. One respect I didn't mean is the price...Certainly many of Len's ideas could be used on the production line, like those of modders like Steve Parry and Ben Cooper- it's a shame their ideas haven't been picked up by the factory.

I was joking about Evil V "counterfiet" bikes( strida copy + merc) not the Superbrompton,

I agree with your comment its a shame that expensive bespoke brompton mods have not being taken up by the brompton factory. Some of the issues discussed in Evil V "brompton get of your ass" thread.

I noticed the Brompton didn't sell. I guess the price was too high that no one was able to buy it. I suspect it was selling for over $3,000.00 USD!

No - I fear no evil as I am well hard.

:)

I have no negative vibes for Brompton. They are excellent. I only went the copy way because the Brompton sales channel were content to make me wait for about three months. That's not my style. Nobody makes me wait. If they try, I buy an inferior product - though in the case of the merc - not much inferior and a hell of a lot cheaper - but I digress - as usual.

Yes, and until O'Bree came along, nobody had imagined changing riding position... and still nobody commercially has picked up on his point about how far apart your feet are on any 'standard' bike. I agree with 'leave it to the playboys' and refer back to my other point: The majority of us could achieve 'faster' through personal weight loss and improved fitness. That doesn't include you 54kg folk :rolleyes:, nor the super-fit :rolleyes:

It's Obree, I think, Graeme Obree. Have you see the film of his efforts, The Flying Scotsman ? very interesting. Of course he coudn't post here, his bikes didn't fold.

http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/cyclists/ob...e-obree-bikes/

:thumb: Thank you very much! :D

But he would have made it fold, if he thought it would make him faster. (Note.. him, not the bike any faster; 'cause the bike is inert until someone gets on and rides it! :lol:) A fine example of someone who didn't let conventional thinking get in the way of progress; unlike the officials of UCI.:innocent: