Gearing on 16" Folders
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Gearing on 16" Folders
I like my 16" Citizen Tokyo a lot. It fits in the small space I have in a closet. No-one on the subway has complained about it being in the way. It folds easily. It rides well. I'm having a ball riding again for the first time in years.
But it is also geared too low for the small wheels. Everybody passes me, and forget riding in a group - I can't keep up. It takes me an hour and fifteen minutes or so for about a 10 mile commute. So I'm saving my money for a faster folder.
I like the compactness of my 16" folder, so I probably want to stick with that size. I'm looking at a Dahon Curve or Curve SL, or a Downtube Mini. How is the gearing on these bikes? Can I manage 10 MPH or better on mostly flat terrain (I think I'm averaging 8 on the Tokyo)? Any other bikes I should consider? Brompton or Bike Friday are a bit pricey for me, but I could save up longer, I guess.
But it is also geared too low for the small wheels. Everybody passes me, and forget riding in a group - I can't keep up. It takes me an hour and fifteen minutes or so for about a 10 mile commute. So I'm saving my money for a faster folder.
I like the compactness of my 16" folder, so I probably want to stick with that size. I'm looking at a Dahon Curve or Curve SL, or a Downtube Mini. How is the gearing on these bikes? Can I manage 10 MPH or better on mostly flat terrain (I think I'm averaging 8 on the Tokyo)? Any other bikes I should consider? Brompton or Bike Friday are a bit pricey for me, but I could save up longer, I guess.
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Can you share with us the gearing of your Tokyo? Chainring/sprocket tooth counts?
I haven't been on the Curve for ages, but I don't remember it being a particularly speedy example. What you'd want is probably an 8sp SA hub which is a 300% overdrive.
I haven't been on the Curve for ages, but I don't remember it being a particularly speedy example. What you'd want is probably an 8sp SA hub which is a 300% overdrive.
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i have a citizen tokyo also and you're right about it being on the slow side as far as gears are concern. i decided to get myself a dahon boardwalk and it's a night and day difference for speed. i also got myself a dahon boardwalk d7 which i am preeping up and upgrading to make into a road bike. i will let you know how it goes. from what i have read, the dahon curve is faster compare to tokyo.
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Vic - The idea of going with a 20" folder like your Boardwalk did occur to me. The current Boardwalk available in the US is a S1 - single speed, but very affordable. Most of my commute is flat, but not all of it - every route home has at least one good-sized hill, except the route from the Metro when I do a multi-mode commute. Still, there are some 20" folders in the Dahon and Downtube lines with 7-8 speeds that might do. But as I said, I really like the compact fold of my 16" bike. I borrowed a friend's 20" folder when I was deciding what to buy, and it didn't fit in the closet where I keep the Tokyo - which fits nicely, but barely.
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Can that possibly be true? Assuming the Tokyo uses 305 tires rather than 349, that comes out to 46.1 gear inches! That's ridiculously slow. With 349, it's 55.1 gear inches, still very slow. You absolutely sure the smallest sprocket is 14t?
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Yep, I used to have a 6sp 14-28 freewheel. So it *does* exist.
Ideally, you'd want this:
https://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=742
Shimano 11-28 freewheel. But you'll have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Or I guess you could:
- Replace the crank with a 53t, and
- Replace the freewheel with something that starts at 13, or even old suntours with 12
But you'd be spending nearly the price difference to a DT Mini.
I'd go with a Curve D3. With the SA 3-speed Dahons, you can modify the gearing by making your own cogs, preferably out of shimano DX singlespeed cogs. Not sure if this is doable with other hubs.
Ideally, you'd want this:
https://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=742
Shimano 11-28 freewheel. But you'll have a better chance of winning the lottery.
Or I guess you could:
- Replace the crank with a 53t, and
- Replace the freewheel with something that starts at 13, or even old suntours with 12
But you'd be spending nearly the price difference to a DT Mini.
I'd go with a Curve D3. With the SA 3-speed Dahons, you can modify the gearing by making your own cogs, preferably out of shimano DX singlespeed cogs. Not sure if this is doable with other hubs.
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I had the same problem with my Mission Genie and thought I was being smart getting an SRAM 3x7 hub. But the rim I've bought (I ordered a 16in) is bigger than the existing 16x1.75 I was using. (See the thread I've just started) So, just be careful.... like you, I think I'll just stick to the original plan and change the front chainring to a 53t.
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Can that possibly be true? Assuming the Tokyo uses 305 tires rather than 349, that comes out to 46.1 gear inches! That's ridiculously slow. With 349, it's 55.1 gear inches, still very slow. You absolutely sure the smallest sprocket is 14t?
I may try the chaingear upgrade as a stopgap, but my question stands - are any of the other 16" folders I mentioned any better? I find it hard to believe that the 3-speed Curve is faster, but I'll believe it if someone who owns one says so.
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Oh yes - I told you it was slow.
I may try the chaingear upgrade as a stopgap, but my question stands - are any of the other 16" folders I mentioned any better? I find it hard to believe that the 3-speed Curve is faster, but I'll believe it if someone who owns one says so.
I may try the chaingear upgrade as a stopgap, but my question stands - are any of the other 16" folders I mentioned any better? I find it hard to believe that the 3-speed Curve is faster, but I'll believe it if someone who owns one says so.
The Curve SL is 31" to 90", a very good range.
The Mini comes in both Capreo and hub forms. I don't know the gear inches, but Downtube could tell you quickly.
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My Bike Friday Tikit has gearing from 30 to 77, depending on the actual diameter of the tires. I could stand to have a lower low and a higher high. I might switch to a 9 speed. That would get me lower low, but a higher high is a problem because 11 is pretty much the smallest cog you can get except on the special Shimano Caprio. I could go to a 54 running an 11 30 cassette and end up with a 29 to 78--looking at it, it really isn't worth it.
But, you definitely need to get rid of that 14 as your smallest cog.
Good luck.
But, you definitely need to get rid of that 14 as your smallest cog.
Good luck.
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The Downtube Mini has a wide 300% range, and an exchangeable chainring so you can fine tune the gearing. Of all choices, it will give you the highest gearing you possibly want. Mine has in excess of 100" at the top. I can go very fast on it.
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My Bike Friday Tikit has gearing from 30 to 77, depending on the actual diameter of the tires. I could stand to have a lower low and a higher high. I might switch to a 9 speed. That would get me lower low, but a higher high is a problem because 11 is pretty much the smallest cog you can get except on the special Shimano Caprio. I could go to a 54 running an 11 30 cassette and end up with a 29 to 78--looking at it, it really isn't worth it.
But, you definitely need to get rid of that 14 as your smallest cog.
Good luck.
But, you definitely need to get rid of that 14 as your smallest cog.
Good luck.
thanks,
vic
Last edited by vmaniqui; 05-30-09 at 11:37 PM.
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I would get a wheel built with a cassette hub so you can use a easy to get cassette with an 11 tooth cog.
maybe look for a big ring from a timetrial bike.
I got a campag 56 tooth ring from ebay for a couple of quid
maybe look for a big ring from a timetrial bike.
I got a campag 56 tooth ring from ebay for a couple of quid
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Thanks, Jur, that's the kind of information I'm looking for. Several have suggested upgrades to the Tokyo, and while I may look into a quick, cheap upgrade, I don't want to pour money into this bike - I'd rather save for a better bike. Just trying to figure out what I'm saving for.
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According to Dahon, 34-92. But this is a 20" bike -- why is it being brought up?
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is there a problem with this post ? is this against the forum's ethics ? the reason i brought this up is to give jcflack some options. we're helping him look for a folder that is speedier than his tokyo. why is it when the tikit's spec was brought up you didn't raise a finger......
Cheer up
Edward Wong III
Qile Duo VSTII 5 Speed 20" Folder
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why not just 'copy' the dahon curve?
install a 3 speed internal gear, 14t cog, the original 48T or replace with a 52T, and off you go..
many of us here in indonesia, convert their cheap 16" folders, to a 3 speed hub (around 50 dollars here)
regarding gear inches, if you choose a 48T/14T combo, you will have a slightly lower gear inches than the Curve set up of 46t/13t....
or
if your rear frame spacing permits, install a capreo hub nad sproket (110 dollars here).
then you have a curve csL wannabe...
install a 3 speed internal gear, 14t cog, the original 48T or replace with a 52T, and off you go..
many of us here in indonesia, convert their cheap 16" folders, to a 3 speed hub (around 50 dollars here)
regarding gear inches, if you choose a 48T/14T combo, you will have a slightly lower gear inches than the Curve set up of 46t/13t....
or
if your rear frame spacing permits, install a capreo hub nad sproket (110 dollars here).
then you have a curve csL wannabe...
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...like a wheel with Shimano, SRAM or Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hub. Even with your existing 48T chainwheel you could achieve something like 36-50-68 gear inches, a useful range.
You're saving for a Brompton, of course!
HTH,
tcs
...I'd rather save for a better bike. Just trying to figure out what I'm saving for.
HTH,
tcs
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why not just 'copy' the dahon curve?
install a 3 speed internal gear, 14t cog, the original 48T or replace with a 52T, and off you go..
or
if your rear frame spacing permits, install a capreo hub and sprocket (110 dollars here).
then you have a curve SL wannabe...
install a 3 speed internal gear, 14t cog, the original 48T or replace with a 52T, and off you go..
or
if your rear frame spacing permits, install a capreo hub and sprocket (110 dollars here).
then you have a curve SL wannabe...
I'm just not sure that I want to spend a lot of money upgrading the Tokyo that I could be saving to buy a Downtube Mini or Curve D3 at just over $500 or a Curve SL for around (gulp!) $850.
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Loose Screws Bicycle small parts.
Before you give up ,check for loose screws on the web( It is the name of an online seller of bicycle small parts among the "small parts" are front sprockets.I bought a 60 Tooth from them a few years back.) You may simply need a larger front sprocket to make your folder livable.
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Before you give up ,check for loose screws on the web( It is the name of an online seller of bicycle small parts among the "small parts" are front sprockets.I bought a 60 Tooth from them a few years back.) You may simply need a larger front sprocket to make your folder livable.
The cheapest solution is to get a used Sturmey Archer AW hub on ebay. The 28-hole variety, which is what you want, can be had for $20 - $30. Rebuild your back wheel with that, and you'll have a tolerable gear range.
The best solution is more expensive, but still way less than a new bike, is to get the new Sturmey Archer X-RF8w hub. Unless you (or your mechanic) is a bit daring, you'll probably need a new rim as well, since the hub is only available with 36 holes. It's an excellent hub, though. This would make your Tokyo very much like a Downtube Mini; better, in fact, if the Mini comes with the older model X-RF8 hub. And you should be able to get the whole thing done for less than half of what a new Mini costs.
A Shimano Nexus inter-4 hub will work, but wouldn't be much better than the SA AW. A Shimano Nexus Inter-7 or Inter-8 will not work unless you get a larger front chain ring, which could get very expensive.
A Rohloff would work, but would be very expensive.
Last edited by rhm; 06-02-09 at 12:24 PM.
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p.s. if you do decide to go the cassette hub way, I have one made up on a 16in rim that you can have for £70 plus postage! All you will need is a 7 sp cassette to go on it. No darn good to me as the rim is too big.
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No, really, it isn't.
If he changes the rear hub to an old SA AW with a 13T cog, he gets 66.3 gear inches.
If he leaves his existing rear wheel, he has to get a 69T chain ring to get the same ratio. And that's not going to be cheap.
If he changes the rear hub to an old SA AW with a 13T cog, he gets 66.3 gear inches.
If he leaves his existing rear wheel, he has to get a 69T chain ring to get the same ratio. And that's not going to be cheap.
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The best solution is more expensive, but still way less than a new bike, is to get the new Sturmey Archer X-RF8w hub. Unless you (or your mechanic) is a bit daring, you'll probably need a new rim as well, since the hub is only available with 36 holes. It's an excellent hub, though.
The older design Sturmey 8 has a well earned reputation for early demise as well.
tcs
PS - FWIW, the X-RF8(W) model IHW8FXDSSAA1 has 28 spoke holes and a 120mm OLD.
Last edited by tcs; 06-03-09 at 06:51 AM.