Brompton vs. Tikit
08-02-09, 02:57 AM
#151
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Obviously if you absolutely need a supercompact fold, the Brompton is the bike to get. But I think you are dramatically downplaying the tradeoffs made with the Brompton in order to achieve that: a great many custom parts, with some [brakes] of low quality; a very small, cramped effective top tube, about the size of the *smallest* Tikit; no real ahead stem options; few, and poor, gearing options; slow folding; etc.
It's that top tube and lack of ahead stem which was the killer for me: at 5'11" I found the bike more or less unrideable for long distances. I like the Brompton a lot. But tall people make significant sacrifices to ride it.
Perhaps. Or maybe Britain consists entirely of hobbits. :-)
It's that top tube and lack of ahead stem which was the killer for me: at 5'11" I found the bike more or less unrideable for long distances. I like the Brompton a lot. But tall people make significant sacrifices to ride it.
Perhaps. Or maybe Britain consists entirely of hobbits. :-)
Seems to be a thread where it's acceptable to rip the Brompton apart but add a 11th commandment 'Thou shalt not blaspheme the Tikit' lol!
And don't go labelling people trolls before you look in the mirror yourself! I think you run pretty close to that label with some of yoiur own comments as evident from the quote above. Or else all digs from 'hobbits' to 'Tikit cracks' should be taken in good humour?
By the way you found the Brompton unrideable for you but I'm 6 feet tall and find it perfect with the right length saddlepost and I've seen a lot of far taller people than me comfortably riding this versatile little folder using the telescopic option. So it's all down to your 'spin' on things rather than the belief that everything that you say is irrefutable fact lol!
Last edited by mulleady; 08-02-09 at 03:03 AM.
08-02-09, 03:59 AM
#152
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I think feijai made some good points.
I agree there needs to be a question of balance.
There are major disadvantagers of the Brompton setup. Many shops/riders/reviews tend to concentrate on what it does well. However many people have chosen alternative bikes because of the Brompton "short fallings".If I lived in london I would definately consider getting a Brompton (again) because of it strenghts. But its short fallings often seemed to get glossed over in reviews ect.
Ie comments like "after fitting Koolstops brake pads,an extended seat post an aftermarket rear frame clip, altering the bars stem arrangment to get more room and finding solutions to offer enough gears. I had a bike I was happy with."
The Tikit is a solution that does not need any of the above, but it lacks some of the Bromptons key abilities in the folding size,and luggage capabilities.
I like the Tikit set up, and agree it is a better package overall,,but I understand why some people prefer the Brompton in their circumstances. I would personally choose the Diblasi as the ultimate folding package over the Brompton. I feel the Mezzo needs to be compaired to the tikit as another better riding, but slightly bigger,and faster folding package,than the Brompton. However I had to upgrade my Mezzo gearing and alter the bars,upgrade to Koolstops also to get a bike I was happy with. But thats another thread!
I agree there needs to be a question of balance.
There are major disadvantagers of the Brompton setup. Many shops/riders/reviews tend to concentrate on what it does well. However many people have chosen alternative bikes because of the Brompton "short fallings".If I lived in london I would definately consider getting a Brompton (again) because of it strenghts. But its short fallings often seemed to get glossed over in reviews ect.
Ie comments like "after fitting Koolstops brake pads,an extended seat post an aftermarket rear frame clip, altering the bars stem arrangment to get more room and finding solutions to offer enough gears. I had a bike I was happy with."
The Tikit is a solution that does not need any of the above, but it lacks some of the Bromptons key abilities in the folding size,and luggage capabilities.
I like the Tikit set up, and agree it is a better package overall,,but I understand why some people prefer the Brompton in their circumstances. I would personally choose the Diblasi as the ultimate folding package over the Brompton. I feel the Mezzo needs to be compaired to the tikit as another better riding, but slightly bigger,and faster folding package,than the Brompton. However I had to upgrade my Mezzo gearing and alter the bars,upgrade to Koolstops also to get a bike I was happy with. But thats another thread!
Last edited by bhkyte; 08-02-09 at 04:19 AM.
08-02-09, 05:39 AM
#153
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I don’t think this is still the case. The 2009 bikes come as standard with the rear frame clip and the brakes have been improved (and work very well). You can specify an extended seat post for free on a custom B-spoke order. There are three different handlebar types to suit different tastes (I prefer the S-type as it gives a more sporty forward reach position). And with the new wide rage hub you can have a good gear range.
I know when I first looked at Bromptons a few years ago I criticized the look of the brake levers and the two separate gear levers on the 6 speed models...... now that I own a 2-speed S-Type the gear levers are not an issues as I only have one lever on the left that works perfectly well and incorporates a bell (I like the design). I have grown to like the Brompton brake levers to the point that I would not like to see the factory change the design.
I think it would be easier to compare the Tikit against the Brompton over in the USA where they are both on sale, but here in the UK the Tikit is such a rare bike that it is not really a competitor to the Brompton. Most people looking for a folding bike in the UK can easily find a local Brompton dealer and have a test ride.... whereas if you want a Bike Friday Tikit you are going to have to travel a good distance to see one, or buy one mail order and then just hope that you are really going to like it.
I called into several bike shops last time I was in London and asked if they stocked Bike Fridays and all I got was a puzzled look and a “Bike who”.... then a “we have some Bromptons”
There are only three companies left in the UK who make real British hand- made bikes (Moulton, Pashley and Brompton) and part of the attraction of these bikes is the traditional style and craftsmanship and most people don’t want to see these companies go all high tec and futuristic at the expense of losing their traditional roots.
Brompton (and Moulton) owners tend to have the same sort of love for their bikes as owners of the original Mini, VW Beetle (Bug) or MG cars have and that is something you don’t find with a lot of other bike brands.
It all depends what you want, traditional British craftsmanship or innovative designs from a modern fast paced company.
I know when I first looked at Bromptons a few years ago I criticized the look of the brake levers and the two separate gear levers on the 6 speed models...... now that I own a 2-speed S-Type the gear levers are not an issues as I only have one lever on the left that works perfectly well and incorporates a bell (I like the design). I have grown to like the Brompton brake levers to the point that I would not like to see the factory change the design.
I think it would be easier to compare the Tikit against the Brompton over in the USA where they are both on sale, but here in the UK the Tikit is such a rare bike that it is not really a competitor to the Brompton. Most people looking for a folding bike in the UK can easily find a local Brompton dealer and have a test ride.... whereas if you want a Bike Friday Tikit you are going to have to travel a good distance to see one, or buy one mail order and then just hope that you are really going to like it.
I called into several bike shops last time I was in London and asked if they stocked Bike Fridays and all I got was a puzzled look and a “Bike who”.... then a “we have some Bromptons”
There are only three companies left in the UK who make real British hand- made bikes (Moulton, Pashley and Brompton) and part of the attraction of these bikes is the traditional style and craftsmanship and most people don’t want to see these companies go all high tec and futuristic at the expense of losing their traditional roots.
Brompton (and Moulton) owners tend to have the same sort of love for their bikes as owners of the original Mini, VW Beetle (Bug) or MG cars have and that is something you don’t find with a lot of other bike brands.
It all depends what you want, traditional British craftsmanship or innovative designs from a modern fast paced company.
08-02-09, 10:58 AM
#154
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I don’t think this is still the case. The 2009 bikes come as standard with the rear frame clip and the brakes have been improved (and work very well). You can specify an extended seat post for free on a custom B-spoke order. There are three different handlebar types to suit different tastes (I prefer the S-type as it gives a more sporty forward reach position). And with the new wide rage hub you can have a good gear range.
I know when I first looked at Bromptons a few years ago I criticized the look of the brake levers and the two separate gear levers on the 6 speed models...... now that I own a 2-speed S-Type the gear levers are not an issues as I only have one lever on the left that works perfectly well and incorporates a bell (I like the design). I have grown to like the Brompton brake levers to the point that I would not like to see the factory change the design.
I think it would be easier to compare the Tikit against the Brompton over in the USA where they are both on sale, but here in the UK the Tikit is such a rare bike that it is not really a competitor to the Brompton. Most people looking for a folding bike in the UK can easily find a local Brompton dealer and have a test ride.... whereas if you want a Bike Friday Tikit you are going to have to travel a good distance to see one, or buy one mail order and then just hope that you are really going to like it.
I called into several bike shops last time I was in London and asked if they stocked Bike Fridays and all I got was a puzzled look and a “Bike who”.... then a “we have some Bromptons”
There are only three companies left in the UK who make real British hand- made bikes (Moulton, Pashley and Brompton) and part of the attraction of these bikes is the traditional style and craftsmanship and most people don’t want to see these companies go all high tec and futuristic at the expense of losing their traditional roots.
Brompton (and Moulton) owners tend to have the same sort of love for their bikes as owners of the original Mini, VW Beetle (Bug) or MG cars have and that is something you don’t find with a lot of other bike brands.
It all depends what you want, traditional British craftsmanship or innovative designs from a modern fast paced company.
I know when I first looked at Bromptons a few years ago I criticized the look of the brake levers and the two separate gear levers on the 6 speed models...... now that I own a 2-speed S-Type the gear levers are not an issues as I only have one lever on the left that works perfectly well and incorporates a bell (I like the design). I have grown to like the Brompton brake levers to the point that I would not like to see the factory change the design.
I think it would be easier to compare the Tikit against the Brompton over in the USA where they are both on sale, but here in the UK the Tikit is such a rare bike that it is not really a competitor to the Brompton. Most people looking for a folding bike in the UK can easily find a local Brompton dealer and have a test ride.... whereas if you want a Bike Friday Tikit you are going to have to travel a good distance to see one, or buy one mail order and then just hope that you are really going to like it.
I called into several bike shops last time I was in London and asked if they stocked Bike Fridays and all I got was a puzzled look and a “Bike who”.... then a “we have some Bromptons”
There are only three companies left in the UK who make real British hand- made bikes (Moulton, Pashley and Brompton) and part of the attraction of these bikes is the traditional style and craftsmanship and most people don’t want to see these companies go all high tec and futuristic at the expense of losing their traditional roots.
Brompton (and Moulton) owners tend to have the same sort of love for their bikes as owners of the original Mini, VW Beetle (Bug) or MG cars have and that is something you don’t find with a lot of other bike brands.
It all depends what you want, traditional British craftsmanship or innovative designs from a modern fast paced company.
08-02-09, 01:52 PM
#156
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I always thought that bike friday and brompton, in terms of the nature of their production process (ie not in China, craft-like, customising options), were very similar.
And something else - can anyone point me in the direction of a pic of a tikit and a brompton folded side by side?
And something else - can anyone point me in the direction of a pic of a tikit and a brompton folded side by side?
08-02-09, 02:14 PM
#157
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Just been out to collect another bike for my Dad.... he now owns 7 bikes (to my 3). I am awaiting delivery on a new bike for me as soon as the dealer gets a set of larger chain rings to raise the gearing for me. I will post some photos of our expanding collection later in the week.
Regards, Paul
08-02-09, 03:28 PM
#158
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Doing well thanks Mulleady.
Just been out to collect another bike for my Dad.... he now owns 7 bikes (to my 3). I am awaiting delivery on a new bike for me as soon as the dealer gets a set of larger chain rings to raise the gearing for me. I will post some photos of our expanding collection later in the week.
Regards, Paul
Just been out to collect another bike for my Dad.... he now owns 7 bikes (to my 3). I am awaiting delivery on a new bike for me as soon as the dealer gets a set of larger chain rings to raise the gearing for me. I will post some photos of our expanding collection later in the week.
Regards, Paul
The foldernitis virus is in your family for sure! Sounds incurable!
08-02-09, 11:53 PM
#159
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indeed, many bike co's would do well to learn about innovative r & d....
as for the crack, well all frames do crack eventually, if you ride them. few companies will replace them even years lates (as BF will: is there anything unclear about lifetime guarantee?)
The reason I suggested the Tikit wins hands down in its category -which, in my opinion, is Functional Daily Folding Bike, as opposed to Packable or Collapsible Bike (Airnimals, Xootr Swifts, other Bike Fridays, most Pacific bikes). This category features ease of rolling of the folded bike (which discounts Dahons and similar designs), as well as a fast, easy fold that will not get you dirty and you can take on public transport- but I digress... The Reasons Tikit wins are the many points brought up before which have not been rivaled by any other folder in this category as far as I know, nor have they been disputed in this thread (which, at the risk of sounding redundant, is why I suggested a clear victory for the Tikit):
-Easily adaptable to ANY gearing system (including fixed gear or IGH without the need for a tensioner)
-Capable of fully loaded touring
-Custom build (for a very low premium)
-Lifetime guarantee
-Disc brake option
to that I may add
-Constant innovation (in my opinion, a bonus, esp. when the company will offer to retrofit innovations to old bikes for FREE!)
There has been alot of innovation in the last 25 years. Brommie is a timeless design, yes, but it needs some uptading in the performance department, in my humble opinion.
I still stand by my first bit of advice to the OP: Get them both if you can, they are both good bikes. If I had them both, I would end up selling the Brommie (if I had to) simply because I cant carry as much on it when touring, and it dosent ride as nice (AND the brakes are dubious), but I am sure the OP can make his own desicion based on his own needs, and may very well end up keping them both, and for good reasons too.
I love all bikes.
as for the crack, well all frames do crack eventually, if you ride them. few companies will replace them even years lates (as BF will: is there anything unclear about lifetime guarantee?)
The reason I suggested the Tikit wins hands down in its category -which, in my opinion, is Functional Daily Folding Bike, as opposed to Packable or Collapsible Bike (Airnimals, Xootr Swifts, other Bike Fridays, most Pacific bikes). This category features ease of rolling of the folded bike (which discounts Dahons and similar designs), as well as a fast, easy fold that will not get you dirty and you can take on public transport- but I digress... The Reasons Tikit wins are the many points brought up before which have not been rivaled by any other folder in this category as far as I know, nor have they been disputed in this thread (which, at the risk of sounding redundant, is why I suggested a clear victory for the Tikit):
-Easily adaptable to ANY gearing system (including fixed gear or IGH without the need for a tensioner)
-Capable of fully loaded touring
-Custom build (for a very low premium)
-Lifetime guarantee
-Disc brake option
to that I may add
-Constant innovation (in my opinion, a bonus, esp. when the company will offer to retrofit innovations to old bikes for FREE!)
There has been alot of innovation in the last 25 years. Brommie is a timeless design, yes, but it needs some uptading in the performance department, in my humble opinion.
I still stand by my first bit of advice to the OP: Get them both if you can, they are both good bikes. If I had them both, I would end up selling the Brommie (if I had to) simply because I cant carry as much on it when touring, and it dosent ride as nice (AND the brakes are dubious), but I am sure the OP can make his own desicion based on his own needs, and may very well end up keping them both, and for good reasons too.
I love all bikes.
08-03-09, 11:26 AM
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When I called BF to ask about prices, they told me that a built-to-order version of a "standard" tikit (same components as a Just the tikit) with the hyperfold mechanism would cost over $1600...and higher if I wanted an internal hub, pedals, saddle, fenders, etc.
The BF sales person actually told me that I would be better off buying a stock version of the tikit from a lbs...which kind of annoyed me...
Does this sound right or did I miss some kind of special sale? Any idea how much a tikit would cost with your suggested adds if a customized Just the tikit is over $1600...I obviously didn't get much help from BF other than being told that my height/weight was great for the medium stock sized tikit...and that a custom build would not be worth it for me...
The BF sales person actually told me that I would be better off buying a stock version of the tikit from a lbs...which kind of annoyed me...
Does this sound right or did I miss some kind of special sale? Any idea how much a tikit would cost with your suggested adds if a customized Just the tikit is over $1600...I obviously didn't get much help from BF other than being told that my height/weight was great for the medium stock sized tikit...and that a custom build would not be worth it for me...
08-03-09, 01:21 PM
#163
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The BF sales person actually told me that I would be better off buying a stock version of the tikit from a lbs...which kind of annoyed me...
Does this sound right or did I miss some kind of special sale? Any idea how much a tikit would cost with your suggested adds if a customized Just the tikit is over $1600...I obviously didn't get much help from BF other than being told that my height/weight was great for the medium stock sized tikit...and that a custom build would not be worth it for me...
https://community.bikefriday.com/ModelsList
08-03-09, 03:01 PM
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I don't think the frames are actually custom. I think the most custom you can get is asking for something like a medium size middle part and a size large handlepost and fork.
08-03-09, 03:03 PM
#165
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I think that will be true for many commuter/utility cyclists. Or put another way, most people really don't have pressing demands that far from the average cyclist. Consequently, the stock model usually does a good job.
Presummably he/she asked what you wanted to do with the bike or what you wanted on your bike. What was your response?
Presummably he/she asked what you wanted to do with the bike or what you wanted on your bike. What was your response?
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08-03-09, 07:01 PM
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That's only $300 more for the custom frame - a standard tikit with hyperfold costs $1300. I think that $300 for a custom frame qualifies as a low premium.
Why did that annoy you? Isn't the fact that they have told you that there is a cheaper option for you good news?
https://community.bikefriday.com/ModelsList
Why did that annoy you? Isn't the fact that they have told you that there is a cheaper option for you good news?
https://community.bikefriday.com/ModelsList
Additionally, if I went the custom build route, I wanted something similar to the Season tikit with hyperfold ($1800+)...but for some reason they kept mentioning that a stock tikit would be best for me. This was the primary reason for my annoyance...I told them that I did not like blue and that I wanted an internal hub...but was only offered a stock bike. No idea why...and I'm hoping/guessing that my experience was the exception and not the rule.
So, while they did propose a cheaper alternative, I don't see it as good news because it was a color/configuration that was never an option for me.
08-06-09, 07:49 AM
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There is a Brompton for sale on Ebay with a cracked tube. I only mention this because it can happen to any bike and someone may get a good deal on a Brompton.
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08-06-09, 08:21 AM
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A $300 increase is more like a 23% premium over the price of a stock tikit...I couldn't justify paying 23% more just for a different color.
...but for some reason they kept mentioning that a stock tikit would be best for me. This was the primary reason for my annoyance...I told them that I did not like blue and that I wanted an internal hub...but was only offered a stock bike. No idea why...
...but for some reason they kept mentioning that a stock tikit would be best for me. This was the primary reason for my annoyance...I told them that I did not like blue and that I wanted an internal hub...but was only offered a stock bike. No idea why...
Now: I am of the opinion that BF should be selling their bikes in a lot more color options on the cheap. But I understand why they don't want to: it requires them to keep stock rather than do just-in-time building. And BF is very much a member of the just-in-time religion: I think there's a video on YouTube showing Alan Scholz holding a Toyota management binder (Toyota's famously JIT). At any rate, that's a different topic...
08-06-09, 03:39 PM
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Probably right...unfortunately the BF rep failed to hear my need/desire for an internal hub...so the stock bike was still not an option (let alone the best choice) for me.
08-06-09, 09:31 PM
#172
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the Season Tikit is the internal gear hub model, and runs around 1600, and you can get it powdercoated any color you want. For only a little bit more you can get further customizations. I really do not think you have a valid point here, my friend.
go here and view all the Tikit models arranged by base price:
https://community.bikefriday.com/node/1676
go here and view all the Tikit models arranged by base price:
https://community.bikefriday.com/node/1676
Last edited by ChiapasFixed; 08-06-09 at 09:35 PM.
08-07-09, 03:21 PM
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the Season Tikit is the internal gear hub model, and runs around 1600, and you can get it powdercoated any color you want. For only a little bit more you can get further customizations. I really do not think you have a valid point here, my friend.
go here and view all the Tikit models arranged by base price:
https://community.bikefriday.com/node/1676
go here and view all the Tikit models arranged by base price:
https://community.bikefriday.com/node/1676
My post wasn't focused on price, but that the BF rep was steering me towards a stock tikit with hyperfold...no internal hub and I don't like the blue color.
My comment regarding the 23% premium was solely based on what the lowest price would be for any tikit with hyperfold that wasn't blue.
So again, my point was that I think it's a high premium to just change the color (assuming you want something similar to their stock offering).
..and my annoyance stemmed from the BF rep steering me towards a model that wasn't what I was looking for...not the best option for me.
So friend, what isn't valid???
08-08-09, 01:38 AM
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kaprive,
Why you did not ask the salesman why he is insisting on steering you to the stock models? Or did you? What did he say? You migh have shown your concern for the price difference you would pay for a custom model and he might have made sure he sells one to you and thinking price is important to you he should have tried steering you towards the fairly priced stock model.
In a business mind, a premium is high only if it causes a trouble for the company selling the good. For example less sales, lost customers etc. They may even set it high enough to guarantee they maintain a sales ratios of stock/custom bikes favourable for the company. I do not know if it is true for BF but it may be that they want to sell mainly standard production bikes over the customs ones and they offer custom bikes for reputation and the synergy it will add to their sales growth efforts.
In fact for the same reasons I dropped BF Tikit from my shortlist of 4 folders
: I want a hub gear and I dislike its blue color. I am going for a Birdy or Brompton by the way (Mu P8 also out of my list).
Why you did not ask the salesman why he is insisting on steering you to the stock models? Or did you? What did he say? You migh have shown your concern for the price difference you would pay for a custom model and he might have made sure he sells one to you and thinking price is important to you he should have tried steering you towards the fairly priced stock model.
In a business mind, a premium is high only if it causes a trouble for the company selling the good. For example less sales, lost customers etc. They may even set it high enough to guarantee they maintain a sales ratios of stock/custom bikes favourable for the company. I do not know if it is true for BF but it may be that they want to sell mainly standard production bikes over the customs ones and they offer custom bikes for reputation and the synergy it will add to their sales growth efforts.
In fact for the same reasons I dropped BF Tikit from my shortlist of 4 folders
: I want a hub gear and I dislike its blue color. I am going for a Birdy or Brompton by the way (Mu P8 also out of my list).
08-08-09, 01:41 AM
#175
hipster traffic dodger
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 596
Bikes: IRO Mark V Pro, home made bamboo track bike, eddy merckx corsa extra, Airnimal Joey commute, UGADA Tikit
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change of color costs 100 bucks, just like pretty much anywhere else (including getting the frame re-done at a shop of your choice).
the 23% premium gets you a customized Season Tikit, which apparently is what you want, right?
or, do you just want a regular 8 speed Tikit of a color that is not blue? You can get that for under 1000...
that is the point, you have options. You could for example, get a one way Tikit, for under 1K, and then add the internally geared hub of your choice at a later date.
Many more options than Brompton, better price range, better product.
Thanks for reading!
the 23% premium gets you a customized Season Tikit, which apparently is what you want, right?
or, do you just want a regular 8 speed Tikit of a color that is not blue? You can get that for under 1000...
that is the point, you have options. You could for example, get a one way Tikit, for under 1K, and then add the internally geared hub of your choice at a later date.
Many more options than Brompton, better price range, better product.
Thanks for reading!
