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Brompton vs. Tikit

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Brompton vs. Tikit

Old 08-08-09, 08:35 AM
  #176  
feijai
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Originally Posted by ChiapasFixed View Post
Many more options than Brompton, better price range, better product.
Not more standard colors though. Brompton's pretty good there.
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Old 08-10-09, 01:13 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by ChiapasFixed View Post
change of color costs 100 bucks, just like pretty much anywhere else (including getting the frame re-done at a shop of your choice).
the 23% premium gets you a customized Season Tikit, which apparently is what you want, right?
or, do you just want a regular 8 speed Tikit of a color that is not blue? You can get that for under 1000...
Not quite sure where you're getting your prices...but when I last checked the BF website a stock tikit without hyperfold (only available in black) was $999 and $1295 with hyperfold (only available in blue).

It seems like you're suggesting that one could buy a regular 8-speed tikit of any color for under $1000...but that doesn't seem true either. I believe $1000 only gets you a stock black tikit without hyperfold.

A Season tikit with hyperfold is over $1800...which is the one that I wanted...this is more like a 40% premium over a stock tikit (blue) with hyperfold...($1800 vs. $1295).

Also, you mention getting a One-way tikit for under $1000...BF says the One-way tikit is about $1300 without hyperfold and about $1500 with hyperfold.

Would love to know if the prices I got from BF are wrong/too high...but without knowing how you're coming up with your prices, you're post still doesn't make much sense.
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Old 08-10-09, 02:28 PM
  #178  
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karprive, your prices are accurate. The only time they wouldn't be accurate is if BF is having a sale of some type... which is rare.

--sam
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Old 08-10-09, 02:54 PM
  #179  
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This makes interesting reading:
https://www.anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/
Photos don’t lie and it is obvious that the tikit is a lot bigger than a Brompton.
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Old 08-10-09, 04:31 PM
  #180  
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^^^

No question. The Brompton has a much more compact fold than the Tikit. The Tikit rides better than the Brompton.

Speedo
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Old 08-10-09, 07:58 PM
  #181  
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from the bike friday website:
Season tikit® with 8-speed Nexus internal hub for all-weather commuting from $1,545.
thats any color you want.
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Old 08-10-09, 09:01 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by PDR View Post
This makes interesting reading:
https://www.anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/
Photos don’t lie and it is obvious that the tikit is a lot bigger than a Brompton.
I don't think anyone has ever argued otherwise. If someone did, I think he/she would be pitied at for being the village idiot. LOL

I do find the rest of the comparison interesting though. Lots of good points brought up in that comparison.

--sam
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Old 08-10-09, 09:52 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by PDR View Post
This makes interesting reading:
https://www.anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/
Photos don’t lie and it is obvious that the tikit is a lot bigger than a Brompton.
Well, duh.

The Brompton has basically one advantage over the Tikit: it folds to about 60% the space. And it's a long proven technology. Otherwise it's got a lot of disadvantages. IMHO, the Tikit's got a better ride, better handling, better brakes and other components, much faster folding, many more and better options both from the factory and after the fact, and a better customer service record. So in choosing between the two, you need to ask yourself: is ultracompact folding paramount?

It may be. But not for me.
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Old 08-10-09, 10:10 PM
  #184  
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another thing u gotta think about is rear and front rack.

i know the brompton has a rear and front rack for basket and bag. but it will hinder when folding it up and thus you need to remove the bag and basket. so it is time consuming u need to remove and put back basket/bag when folding. but with a tikit, i saw some video that a guy shop in a supermarket with his tikit folded up with a bag.

so something u gonna think about when getting a folder. what to use it for.
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Old 08-10-09, 11:26 PM
  #185  
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It seems extremely easy to me to get the front bag quick released and over the shoulder when getting on a bus or something. In that comparison I go for Brompton because I need the tidy and tiny package when a bike gets folded and 30 seconds to do it is fast more than enough for me. Besides I consider Bromptons to have the most elegant solutions for bags and all. Tikit is reported to have a better ride even though some find it too flexy, however if I go that route I would look at the Birdy even though there is a price difference.

Tikit's folded size is large but what disappointed me was its folded shape: it seems very unbalanced, `thick` and untidy, and frequently reported to be awkward even when rolling it along holding the handle.
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Old 08-11-09, 01:28 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Well, duh.

The Brompton has basically one advantage over the Tikit: it folds to about 60% the space. And it's a long proven technology. Otherwise it's got a lot of disadvantages. IMHO, the Tikit's got a better ride, better handling, better brakes and other components, much faster folding, many more and better options both from the factory and after the fact, and a better customer service record. So in choosing between the two, you need to ask yourself: is ultracompact folding paramount?

It may be. But not for me.
That's right! 'In your opinion'!

Take our folding enthusiasts from Taiwan, Japan or South Korea. They love importing the Brompton. I'd like to see the sales of BF's Tikit there? Recently a South Korean man came into the shop that upgraded my Brompton and ordered 30 Brommies with a view to taking 20 more for their local Korean town.

If you choose one of the recent Bromptons the ride and performance is far better than the older models and it is a superior commute-n-go folder to the Tikit hands down. It's already been stated that different folders excel for different purposes. Yes ultracompact folding is paramount for many of us feijai. That's why the Brompton will always outsell the Tikit for commuting purposes in urban cities with multi-mode transport. I'd also feel more comfortable bringing the Brompton into buildings, restaurants, shops, and ne pubs. I've rarely been refused with the Brompton, the Tikit would be a lot trickier.

I still maintain the argument that the pro-tikites are limited to one particular geographic region. Then there's the opinion of the ROW

And if one really wants to customise the Brompton it can be done. See my own example:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...rompton+alfine

It was a great ride as it was with the original 6 speed but it was my dream to power the bike with a Son hub and I absolutely love the Shimano Alfine hub gearing, so I saved up and had it done! BF might offer more custom options pre-order as a small business but the Brompton's sturdy steel frame can be stretched and worked with effectively and their are loads of options for 16" wheel folders these days.

Suffice to say, you are barking up the wrong tree repeating all the limitations of this wonderful folder. Some of your claims are unfounded whilst any valid disadvantages pale into insignificance with the benefits and fun that the Brompton offers.

Last edited by mulleady; 08-11-09 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 08-11-09, 07:58 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by mulleady View Post
That's right! 'In your opinion'!
Suffice to say, you are barking up the wrong tree repeating all the limitations of this wonderful folder. Some of your claims are unfounded whilst any valid disadvantages pale into insignificance with the benefits and fun that the Brompton offers.
As far as folders go, in my opinion there is only the Brompton. It is for me the best compromise between ride and folding.

If the ride quality is the real issue then Tiket or Swift is in my opinion a better matchup.

The Brompton exists in it's own category
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Old 08-11-09, 08:49 AM
  #188  
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I cant believe this thread is still ongoing... well, my wife and I shall be doing a 400km ride across the top end of Borneo on a Tikit, and probably a Brompton. There will be some transporting on buses etc with some hill climbs and descents.

I shall report my findings on these 2 fine 16" commuter foldies on tour in 2 months time. Stay tune.
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Old 08-11-09, 09:14 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by mulleady View Post
Take our folding enthusiasts from Taiwan, Japan or South Korea. They love importing the Brompton. I'd like to see the sales of BF's Tikit there?
How is this relevant to the discussion exactly?

If you choose one of the recent Bromptons the ride and performance is far better than the older models and it is a superior commute-n-go folder to the Tikit hands down.
The "recent" Brompton (which are the only ones I've tested) has a much lower trail than the Tikit, and has an effective top tube that's the length of the *smallest* Tikits, with no ahead stem options to compensate. (Oh yeah, I didn't list that big disadvantage, my bad: the Brompton's got a highly cramped effective top tube). These aren't opinions: they are simple facts.

And if one really wants to customise the Brompton it can be done.
Your example is a beautiful job. But it's a ridiculously stupid support for your argument here. You seriously expect people to reweld their rear triangle in order to support a better rear hub?

Some of your claims are unfounded whilst any valid disadvantages pale into insignificance with the benefits and fun that the Brompton offers.
So far you've not actually countered any statements I made. I think they were fair.

Have you ridden a Tikit? It sounds like you haven't.

Last edited by feijai; 08-11-09 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 08-11-09, 10:52 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
How is this relevant to the discussion exactly?



The "recent" Brompton (which are the only ones I've tested) has a much lower trail than the Tikit, and has an effective top tube that's the length of the *smallest* Tikits, with no ahead stem options to compensate. (Oh yeah, I didn't list that big disadvantage, my bad: the Brompton's got a highly cramped effective top tube). These aren't opinions: they are simple facts.



Your example is a beautiful job. But it's a ridiculously stupid support for your argument here. You seriously expect people to reweld their rear triangle in order to support a better rear hub?



So far you've not actually countered any statements I made. I think they were fair.

Have you ridden a Tikit? It sounds like you haven't.
Why do you keep zeroing in on the Brompton when you spent less than 30 minutes on it? If you are unwilling to adjust your riding position then of course the Brompton will feel weird to you. Spend more time with this bike before you lambast it. To reiterate, you have nearly zero experience with the Brompton, and many hours on your Tikit, and yet you consider yourself an authority on both bikes.
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Old 08-11-09, 11:02 AM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by ChiapasFixed View Post
from the bike friday website:
Season tikit® with 8-speed Nexus internal hub for all-weather commuting from $1,545.
thats any color you want.
Chia, You really should read the posts before replying...

No one said you couldn't get a Season tikit in any color you wanted for over $1,500...so, not quite sure why you're focusing on that.

However, it did seem like you were suggesting that a regular tikit could be had in any color for under $1,000...(Post #175)...which is inaccurate according to the BF website.

Also, the $1,545 (BF website shows $1,615...but your number is close enough) is for the Season tikit without hyperfold...I stated a price of approximately $1,800 with hyperfold so again, not sure what you're trying to say/prove by stating that a Season tikit without hyperfold costs over $1,500.
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Old 08-11-09, 11:05 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by Lalato View Post
karprive, your prices are accurate. The only time they wouldn't be accurate is if BF is having a sale of some type... which is rare.

--sam
Thanks for the confirmation...
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Old 08-11-09, 11:36 AM
  #193  
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Why do you keep zeroing in on the Brompton when you spent less than 30 minutes on it?
Ah, the troll's back. Wait, where's your obligatory "crack" reference?

My comment above notwithstanding, you insist on ad hominem a lot. It's time to put up or shut up, EastBiker and mulleady. Please tell me which of the following are not factual and why:
  1. The tikit has more trail than the Brompton.
  2. The tikit has many more standard component options than the Brompton, both before and after purchase.
  3. The tikit folds significantly faster than the Brompton.
  4. Whereas the Tikit comes in three sizes and further sizing options, the Brompton's effective top tube is as short as the very smallest Tikit, and has no real procedure for an ahead stem, telescoping stem, or bars beyond Brompton's own without affecting the fold.
  5. Bike Friday's customer service record is unusually strong, even compared to Brompton's.

Here is what I'll grant you (and have always): (1) the Brompton folds significantly smaller, (2) the Brompton is more time-proven technology (the Tikit is unquestionably bleeding edge), and (3) the Brompton's non-telescoping stem is stiffer. Oh, and (4) I like the Brompton's color options a lot better.

If you are unwilling to adjust your riding position then of course the Brompton will feel weird to you.
You're seriously going with this line of argument?

Last edited by feijai; 08-11-09 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 08-11-09, 01:22 PM
  #194  
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  1. The Brompton has considerably less flex.
  2. The Brompton has better accessories, more seamlessly fitting and better in quality and better looking.
  3. The Brompton folds significantly tidier and smaller than the Tikit.
  4. The Brompton is better manageable when folded.
  5. The Brompton has many color options.
  6. The Brompton is lighter and more silent and more elegantly converted to an electric bike.
  7. The Brompton is a better multimodal city commuter.
  8. And.....The Brompton is the more elegant of the two in both looks and feeling. It has some quality comparable to Leica in photography world. Nikon might better it in many areas but for some, Leica is the best and many similar pointless comparisons and postings for those cameras (and between Nikon and Canon especially) are all around the web.

For me Brompton is better just because I can take it to crowded busses, shops, trains, motorboats, office buildings, the back seat (or passenger seat) of my car (let alone the trunk), top of my wardrobe easily and it blends in if covered. I wonder if I would need a better ride quality and in that case I consider a Birdy not a Tikit. Tikit's big trick is the speed of fold (hyperfold model only), and there is nothing much that attracts me.

I think this is just a matter of priorities and there is no point in arguing that one is better overall.
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Old 08-11-09, 07:21 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Ah, the troll's back. Wait, where's your obligatory "crack" reference?

My comment above notwithstanding, you insist on ad hominem a lot. It's time to put up or shut up, EastBiker and mulleady. Please tell me which of the following are not factual and why:
  1. The tikit has more trail than the Brompton.
  2. The tikit has many more standard component options than the Brompton, both before and after purchase.
  3. The tikit folds significantly faster than the Brompton.
  4. Whereas the Tikit comes in three sizes and further sizing options, the Brompton's effective top tube is as short as the very smallest Tikit, and has no real procedure for an ahead stem, telescoping stem, or bars beyond Brompton's own without affecting the fold.
  5. Bike Friday's customer service record is unusually strong, even compared to Brompton's.

Here is what I'll grant you (and have always): (1) the Brompton folds significantly smaller, (2) the Brompton is more time-proven technology (the Tikit is unquestionably bleeding edge), and (3) the Brompton's non-telescoping stem is stiffer. Oh, and (4) I like the Brompton's color options a lot better.



You're seriously going with this line of argument?
Who's the troll? You're the one who came with a supposedly scientific study where you raised your Tikit on a pedestal, and kept lambasting the Brompton despite you having near zero experience on the Brompton. Though you may argue the individual points piecemeal, you fail to realize that a bike should be judged by the sum of all its parts. It's how you experience a bike dude! I find it funny how you label others (me) as a troll when you're a giver of snarky comments yourself. Pot, meet kettle?
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Old 08-11-09, 07:29 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Biont View Post

I think this is just a matter of priorities and there is no point in arguing that one is better overall.
+1. It seems that some Tikit owners insist that their bike is so much superior than the others, Brompton included, and they seem to want everyone to agree. Wake up and smell the coffee dudes, you can't go wrong with both bikes, just get one that suits your lifestyle better.
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Old 08-11-09, 08:10 PM
  #197  
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The rear triangle on any bike can be spread a little, done cold,no heat and know welding(brazeing in Bromptons case)of course done properly re:Sheldon Browns site.
Dont know if this matters but my S-type Brommie is 1 1/4 inchs longer center of stem to center of seat post than my Speed D-7.Im just over 6ft tall with long arms and find Brommie more than roomy enuf.But then im a old fart and probably shouldnt be reaching that far anyway.Lol.
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Old 08-11-09, 08:25 PM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by EastBiker View Post
Who's the troll?
Examples one, two, three, four, and five. I think this is the definition of troll.

I find it funny how you label others (me) as a troll when you're a giver of snarky comments yourself.
I'm not sure you understand what "snark" means. Oh sure, faults I definitely have! Excessive Tikit booster, no doubt: we all have ego-investiture in our expensive purchases. Bombastic and overly forceful, sure. Snark, not so much. When called on weak claims, I have backed off of them. And my claims are based on fact, measurement, and specific experience. On the other hand, you and mulleady appear to be entirely based on rhetoric and snark. I rarely, if ever, see much factual analysis or evidential claim in your comments. It's all trolling.

You two even go so far as to repeatedly, absurdly, attack me for what you *think* is my lack of experience with Bromptons (and humorously, Dahons, even though I own three). Your postings are so full of personal vitriol against me it borders on self parody. And despite all this blow-hardedness, I'm going to make a good guess that you've probably never touched a Tikit. Sure, I don't own a Brompton, but unlike yourself, I've actually compared the two personally (and measured them with devices from my lab). And ridden the Brompton a lot more than you seem to think. There are others on this board who own both tikits and Bromptons and have every right to tell me that I'm full of crap on a certain comparison: but I think they've usually agreed with me. You on the other hand, don't have much of a leg to stand on, so all you can do is sit out in the bleachers and blow rasberries.

BTW: stay tuned for some tikit criticism I'll be posting in a while. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for you to put up or shut up: which of the claims I made above (1, 2, 3, 4, or 5) are not factual, and why?

Originally Posted by Biont View Post
  1. The Brompton has considerably less flex.
  2. The Brompton has better accessories, more seamlessly fitting and better in quality and better looking.
  3. The Brompton folds significantly tidier and smaller than the Tikit.
  4. The Brompton is better manageable when folded.
  5. The Brompton has many color options.
  6. The Brompton is lighter and more silent and more elegantly converted to an electric bike.
  7. The Brompton is a better multimodal city commuter.
  8. And.....The Brompton is the more elegant of the two in both looks and feeling. It has some quality comparable to Leica in photography world. Nikon might better it in many areas but for some, Leica is the best and many similar pointless comparisons and postings for those cameras (and between Nikon and Canon especially) are all around the web.

...

I think this is just a matter of priorities and there is no point in arguing that one is better overall.
Your argument would be a lot more reasonable, if points 2 and 6 were actually true. And points 4, 7, and 8 are hardly evidence-based claims.

I'm not sure I have ever claimed that the Tikit is a *better* bike than the Brompton: there's obviously a lack of Pareto dominance between the two. But I do personally think that, were the supercompact fold not a major factor, it'd be hard to justify a Brompton over a Tikit. Of course for many, particularly the British bike-on-train set, the supercompact fold is a major factor. But not for me: like many Americans I needed the best-riding bike I could fit in my small closet or trunk, and one with some nerd credentials to boot (and the Swift was, unfortunately, just too large).

Last edited by feijai; 08-11-09 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 08-11-09, 08:59 PM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Examples one, two, three, four, and five. I think this is the definition of troll.



I'm not sure you understand what "snark" means. Oh sure, faults I definitely have! Excessive Tikit booster, no doubt: we all have ego-investiture in our expensive purchases. Bombastic and overly forceful, sure. Snark, not so much. When called on weak claims, I have backed off of them. And my claims are based on fact, measurement, and specific experience. On the other hand, you and mulleady appear to be entirely based on rhetoric and snark. I rarely, if ever, see much factual analysis or evidential claim in your comments. It's all trolling.

You two even go so far as to repeatedly, absurdly, attack me for what you *think* is my lack of experience with Bromptons (and humorously, Dahons, even though I own three). Your postings are so full of personal vitriol against me it borders on self parody. And despite all this blow-hardedness, I'm going to make a good guess that you've probably never touched a Tikit. Sure, I don't own a Brompton, but unlike yourself, I've actually compared the two personally (and measured them with devices from my lab). And ridden the Brompton a lot more than you seem to think. There are others on this board who own both tikits and Bromptons and have every right to tell me that I'm full of crap on a certain comparison: but I think they've usually agreed with me. You on the other hand, don't have much of a leg to stand on, so all you can do is sit out in the bleachers and blow rasberries.

BTW: stay tuned for some tikit criticism I'll be posting in a while. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for you to put up or shut up: which of the claims I made above (1, 2, 3, 4, or 5) are not factual, and why?



Your argument would be a lot more reasonable, if points 2 and 6 were actually true. And points 4, 7, and 8 are hardly evidence-based claims.

I'm not sure I have ever claimed that the Tikit is a *better* bike than the Brompton: there's obviously a lack of Pareto dominance between the two. But I do personally think that, were the supercompact fold not a major factor, it'd be hard to justify a Brompton over a Tikit. Of course for many, particularly the British bike-on-train set, the supercompact fold is a major factor. But not for me: like many Americans I needed the best-riding bike I could fit in my small closet or trunk, and one with some nerd credentials to boot (and the Swift was, unfortunately, just too large).
And you're not a troll? Sure, conveniently forget your snarky comments. Anyway heed my advice. Experience the Brompton first before you dis it dude.

And FYI, my brother has a Tikit. I get to ride it once in a while and he gets to ride my Brommie. He is joking that we change bikes permanently. It is a great bike, handles really well. It does though fold into a jumbled mess (fast though). And yes it has a crack, and he is not satisfied at all with BF's solution as it is awkward to roll in its folded state.

So feijai, before you dis the Brompton, why don't you experience it first. Put up or shut up.
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Old 08-11-09, 10:30 PM
  #200  
ChiapasFixed
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Bikes: IRO Mark V Pro, home made bamboo track bike, eddy merckx corsa extra, Airnimal Joey commute, UGADA Tikit

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I think this thread will continue for a while yet. Which is fine by me! I would suggest we try an objective comparison and exclude matters of opinion such as "Bike X is the more elegant of the two", or "Bike Y is better looking", and come up with a reasonable, testable criteria.
I am sure we all know the results ahead of time anyway, but here is an attempt at a 10 point criteria set:

1)Comfort of ride over long distances (50km+)
2)Capacity to carry loads
3)Ease and speed of folding
4)Folded size
5)Ease of transportation when folded
6)Ability and cost of customization (color, gearing, riding position, components, etc.)
7)Price point
8)Warranty/customer service (at point of sale and ongoing)
9)Weight (with similar or equal components)
10) Durability

If we all agree these are fair points, we can even set up a poll and see which bike excels in each one. Or feel free to suggest other criteria. In the end, I think they will both be similarly matched, and it will once again be a question of what each person wants to do with the bike or whether they want to support a US or a UK based company, or a host of other subjective, individual criteria.

From my subjective, individual POV, the Tikit wins as it rides very much like a full sized bike (it was built to emulate the riding position of my Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra), and it came from the factory with exactly the components and color I wanted (racks, disc brakes, dynohub, IGH, edelux light) albeit at a price premium. With regards to flex, ever since I greased and "improved" my twiddly knob, the stem flex has dissapeared to where i can ride the bike as hard as any other with no noticeable lateral movement.

Last edited by ChiapasFixed; 08-11-09 at 10:35 PM.
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