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Brompton vs. Tikit

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Brompton vs. Tikit

Old 08-12-09, 01:47 AM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by Biont View Post
It seems extremely easy to me to get the front bag quick released and over the shoulder when getting on a bus or something. In that comparison I go for Brompton because I need the tidy and tiny package when a bike gets folded and 30 seconds to do it is fast more than enough for me. Besides I consider Bromptons to have the most elegant solutions for bags and all. Tikit is reported to have a better ride even though some find it too flexy, however if I go that route I would look at the Birdy even though there is a price difference.

Tikit's folded size is large but what disappointed me was its folded shape: it seems very unbalanced, `thick` and untidy, and frequently reported to be awkward even when rolling it along holding the handle.
Yes it is.... I arrive at the station, detach the front S-Bag swing it onto my shoulder, fold the bike and pull the cover out of one of the s-bags rear pockets, cover the bike, step on the train and place the bike between the seat backs. Simple, quick and very well designed.

I would have to agree. The Hyper fold Tikit is amazing to watch for those few seconds as it is folded... but then you are left with an ungainly looking package resembling just about any other folded bike...
The folded Brompton in contrast is just a piece of pure artistic engineering. Put a folded Brompton in a room and look at it from any angle and it is just fantastic.
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Old 08-12-09, 02:05 AM
  #202  
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I posted the link in #179 as I thought it would be good to see a photo of a Brompton and a Tikit next to each other. Reading printed measurements does not work as well as showing a photo.
As far as I am concerned, the only compromise I made with my Brompton was in the gearing. I sacrificed the wide gear range of the BWR hub in favour of light weight. In all other aspects (ride position, handling, comfort, folding, and build quality) the Brompton is absolutely perfect for MY needs as a bike for train commuting.
For weekend distance rides I now have my Bridgestone Moulton as a fast sports bike, but I guess this compares more with the likes of the Bike Friday Pocket Rocket rather than the Tikit..... oh no, I’d better not start a Bike Friday verses Moulton debate
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Old 08-12-09, 08:00 AM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by PDR View Post
oh no, I’d better not start a Bike Friday verses Moulton debate
Wouldn't be very long...

Tikit: Cheaper, Folds

Moulton: IT'S A FREAKIN' MOULTON
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Old 08-12-09, 08:36 AM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by Biont View Post
  1. The Brompton has considerably less flex.
  2. The Brompton has better accessories, more seamlessly fitting and better in quality and better looking.
  3. The Brompton folds significantly tidier and smaller than the Tikit.
  4. The Brompton is better manageable when folded.
  5. The Brompton has many color options.
  6. The Brompton is lighter and more silent and more elegantly converted to an electric bike.
  7. The Brompton is a better multimodal city commuter.
  8. And.....The Brompton is the more elegant of the two in both looks and feeling. It has some quality comparable to Leica in photography world. Nikon might better it in many areas but for some, Leica is the best and many similar pointless comparisons and postings for those cameras (and between Nikon and Canon especially) are all around the web.

For me Brompton is better just because I can take it to crowded busses, shops, trains, motorboats, office buildings, the back seat (or passenger seat) of my car (let alone the trunk), top of my wardrobe easily and it blends in if covered. I wonder if I would need a better ride quality and in that case I consider a Birdy not a Tikit. Tikit's big trick is the speed of fold (hyperfold model only), and there is nothing much that attracts me.

I think this is just a matter of priorities and there is no point in arguing that one is better overall.

Are #2 and #6 true?

Personally, I have seen Bike Friday 20" fenders. I think that they are disappointing. I have not personally seen the tikit's fenders in detail, but for the time being I'll assume that they are of similar design. It has been a few years, but I recall the Brompton fenders doing a decent job. But Bike Friday racks are pretty good and a reasonable price; relatively light chromoly racks are not cheap. I liked the Brompton's front bag/mount; according to the model one can fit a lot of stuff there. But I didn't think that the workmanship was good and they can be pretty steep.

Is the Brompton lighter? I think this statement needs more caveats such as which model you are talking about and total cost. More silent? I would think that either bike in a well maintained state would be pretty silent and in a poorly maintained state would be fairly noisy. So is this a statement about durability or ease of maintenance? I know little about the electric bike statement; but my surprise comes from the Brompton's teeny tiny OLD versus the Bike Friday's standard OLD. The wheel diameter is the same and both bike swing the rear triangle forward during the fold. So out of curiousity, what makes the Brompton easier to set up as an electric bike?
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Old 08-12-09, 02:58 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Are #2 and #6 true?

Personally, I have seen Bike Friday 20" fenders. I think that they are disappointing. I have not personally seen the tikit's fenders in detail, but for the time being I'll assume that they are of similar design. It has been a few years, but I recall the Brompton fenders doing a decent job. But Bike Friday racks are pretty good and a reasonable price; relatively light chromoly racks are not cheap. I liked the Brompton's front bag/mount; according to the model one can fit a lot of stuff there. But I didn't think that the workmanship was good and they can be pretty steep.

Is the Brompton lighter? I think this statement needs more caveats such as which model you are talking about and total cost. More silent? I would think that either bike in a well maintained state would be pretty silent and in a poorly maintained state would be fairly noisy. So is this a statement about durability or ease of maintenance? I know little about the electric bike statement; but my surprise comes from the Brompton's teeny tiny OLD versus the Bike Friday's standard OLD. The wheel diameter is the same and both bike swing the rear triangle forward during the fold. So out of curiousity, what makes the Brompton easier to set up as an electric bike?
These are my own deductions from the many reviews I have read in my search of a folder for commuting. Some might even be shown to be wrong, and some are subjective. I also needed an electric motor just for some boost over the steep hills in my 15 km commute from home to office. Also sorry for my broken English that caused some unclear statements about it. By light and silent, I meant an e-Brompton. It is well tried and tested. For Bromptons, there is a front hub nano motor that provides the exact assistance I need without causing the bike to gain more than 3.2 kg (7 lbs) in weight and without changing its looks that much and it is (said to be) very silent. Maybe Tikit could be fitted with one' however people considering it is more likely to choose a Tikit over Brompton usually for ride quality' trail etc. and they won't be interested in an e-bike. I am yet to see one.

My point is I have my own reasons, right or wrong, to choose Brompton over Tikit by far. Someone else would have his own to adore a Tikit. To compare bikes we need to set some criteria and if a bike does not match those it is no good. If my first criterion is to be able to take the bike on a crowded bus without bothering anybody and without causing a stir, a Tikit is no good. It would still be no good if it was indestructable, made of a fancy light and sturdy material, had a free Rohloff coming with it or no matter what.
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Old 08-12-09, 07:32 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by Biont View Post
To compare bikes we need to set some criteria and if a bike does not match those it is no good. If my first criterion is to be able to take the bike on a crowded bus without bothering anybody and without causing a stir, a Tikit is no good. It would still be no good if it was indestructable, made of a fancy light and sturdy material, had a free Rohloff coming with it or no matter what.
Sure of course.

What I hoped to get out of our resident trolls, EastBiker and Mulleady, was: what advantages did the Brompton provide over the Tikit? I see four, only the first of which is very important: (1) ultracompact folding (2) more color choices (3) older design and (4) less handlebar flex.

Your earlier post implied there might be more advantages still. But alas no. Some of them (2 and 6) aren't true, and, if I may, (4, 7, and 8) are opinions of (IMHO) some debate.

Last edited by feijai; 08-12-09 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 08-12-09, 08:53 PM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Sure of course.

What I hoped to get out of our resident trolls, EastBiker and Mulleady, was: what advantages did the Brompton provide over the Tikit? I see four, only the first of which is very important: (1) ultracompact folding (2) more color choices (3) older design and (4) less handlebar flex.

Your earlier post implied there might be more advantages still. But alas no. Some of them (2 and 6) aren't true, and, if I may, (4, 7, and 8) are opinions of (IMHO) some debate.
First, lay off mulleady, as he has way more class than you. Concentrate on me dude! You accuse others of ad hominem attacks yet you are fond of doing the same thing.

You accuse me of being a troll and cited some of my posts, all of which pertain to the Tikit having the propensity to develop cracks. Is it not a weakness of the Tikit? You keep on reminding people here of the Brompton's weaknesses (a bike that you have nearly nil experience on) yet you are up in arms when someone mentions a glaring Tikit weakness. Will the cracks go away if nobody mentions it at all? Are you satisfied with the solution? My brother is irked to no end that he can't roll the Tikit comfortably.

Like I said before, go experience the Brompton first before you dis it. No amount of measuring trail, height or whatnot can even come close to actually riding the bike for several days. It does offer a different riding position, but if you are unwilling to adapt to it then it is not for you. Put up or shut up dude (your words I believe).
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Old 08-12-09, 11:41 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Sure of course.

...Your earlier post implied there might be more advantages still. But alas no. Some of them (2 and 6) aren't true, and, if I may, (4, 7, and 8) are opinions of (IMHO) some debate.
2 and 6 are true:

2 The Brompton has better accessories, more seamlessly fitting and better in quality and better looking. Proprietary parts and accessories are usually bashed (which I agree) but at least they have an advantage over standard ones: it is that they fit the bike perfectly since they are developped for that bike for customized fit. Customized for the bike itself. The front block, the front bag alternatives, the cover, the B-bag, etc) are better solutions, are custom made for the bike and they are of high quality and therefore beter looking. Maybe not much accessories but if few they are the best solutions.

6. The Brompton is lighter and more silent and more elegantly converted to an electric bike. You did not my post above clarifying what I meant there and apologizing for my poor English? Let me repeat; I am interested in an electric motor fitted bike and when fitted, the hub motor offered for Brompton (80 mm nano) is the most silent and the most lighter and more elegantly (seamlessly) fitted to the Brompton. It adds just 7 pounds to the weight and therefore an e-bike around 30 lbs is the lightest.

4,7,8 are not opinions

4. Brompton could be carried handheld, even the saddle works like a handle for it. You have eazy wheel option to use it over surfaces including some rough ones if you go with inline skate wheels. Tidier, capable of standing buy itself, and etc. etc. Tikit on the other hand ' once does its trick folding marvelously and is a lump when folded surprisingly fast, turning heads, it has no more appeal and the head turn the other way It is reported to be of requiring manipulation and wrist strength. It is unbalanced. It can not stay by itself. It can not be carried in one hand easily. I agree Tikit is better if the owner enjoys handling its unbalanced mass on the ground and this is true for shorter distances in any case. My opinion? That's right.

7. The Brompton is a better multimodal city commuter.

If you say this is an opinion only, you are just being unfair not only to Brompton but to people reading your posts.

8. And I already explained thatg I think and that I find The Brompton to be more like a Leica than other good brands. But this opinion is shared by many people. All you want seems to be comparable figures right? You can not bear with some unmeasurable (well' unmeasurable in figures) qualities? Anyway those items you state being an opinions makes them more valuable in comparing bikes since vast number of people think the same way I do (and maybe you can compare the number of people)

You want a decent ride and a cool fast folding action to surprise people: get a Tikit.
Otherwise get something else.
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Old 08-13-09, 02:20 AM
  #209  
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"Put up or shut up dude (your words I believe)"

I think a certain measure of civilility will go a long way here... sigh!
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Old 08-13-09, 04:23 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by OldiesONfoldies View Post
"Put up or shut up dude (your words I believe)"

I think a certain measure of civilility will go a long way here... sigh!
I agree. Tell that though to the guy who first said it though, and throws the troll word around to boot.


Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Ah, the troll's back. Wait, where's your obligatory "crack" reference?

My comment above notwithstanding, you insist on ad hominem a lot. It's time to put up or shut up, EastBiker and mulleady. Please tell me which of the following are not factual and why:
  1. The tikit has more trail than the Brompton.
  2. The tikit has many more standard component options than the Brompton, both before and after purchase.
  3. The tikit folds significantly faster than the Brompton.
  4. Whereas the Tikit comes in three sizes and further sizing options, the Brompton's effective top tube is as short as the very smallest Tikit, and has no real procedure for an ahead stem, telescoping stem, or bars beyond Brompton's own without affecting the fold.
  5. Bike Friday's customer service record is unusually strong, even compared to Brompton's.

Here is what I'll grant you (and have always): (1) the Brompton folds significantly smaller, (2) the Brompton is more time-proven technology (the Tikit is unquestionably bleeding edge), and (3) the Brompton's non-telescoping stem is stiffer. Oh, and (4) I like the Brompton's color options a lot better.



You're seriously going with this line of argument?
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Old 08-13-09, 07:40 AM
  #211  
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I can't believe this silly argument is still going on
In Canada I would have given the edge to the tikit just cause it was $500 cheaper than the imported brompton here but recently the LBS here just raised the tikit price to $1300 from $1000 (https://ucycle.com/products/bikes/folder-bikes), gah! bromptons here start a $1500 (both hand made in their respective countries). so the price gap is closing over in Toronto, not sure anywhere else. I'm just arguing on price point. I have 0 experience with either bikes so I'm not commenting on anything else, cause I ride my triangle bike daily.
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Old 08-13-09, 07:51 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
Wouldn't be very long...

Tikit: Cheaper, Folds

Moulton: IT'S A FREAKIN' MOULTON


True. And I'm a Tikit owner.

On the other hand, if you are at the extreme ends size wise then Moultons might not be for you. When I was researching folding bikes the Moulton was beckoning, but the TSR was just a bit too small for me, and I couldn't justify that kind of money for something that would have a sub-optimal fit.

(edit) Back on topic and speaking of fit, a mid-sized person is almost certain to get a Brompton to fit but a three sigma large or small might have a problem. My avatar pic is me riding a Brompton. It had the extension seat post, but no amount of tightening the clamp would keep it from slipping. Over the course of a 30 mile ride I had to stop quite a few times to raise the seatpost. The three standard sizes of Tikit are a big help in getting a good fit.(/edit)

Speedo

Last edited by Speedo; 08-13-09 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 08-13-09, 09:07 AM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Biont View Post
2 The Brompton has better accessories, more seamlessly fitting and better in quality and better looking. Proprietary parts and accessories are usually bashed (which I agree) but at least they have an advantage over standard ones: it is that they fit the bike perfectly since they are developped for that bike for customized fit.
I'm a mac user since the early days so I know where you're coming from: but I think you're far underestimating the value of having standard parts and enabling an aftermarket: you can put a carbon fiber handlebar on the Tikit; or bullhorn bars; or all kinds of bar ends (check these out; or a front rack which works with the fold; or any number of gearing options. You can replace the brakes with a variety of better ones; or attach a trailer; or braze on a front derailleur; and so on. And these are *nice* accessories.

I'll give you that the Brompton's great fenders are much better than the Tikit's. That cannot be debated! And their factory front bags are nice. Though the Tikit's transit cover is significantly better thought out than the Brompton's covers IMHO.

6. The Brompton is lighter and more silent and more elegantly converted to an electric bike. You did not my post above clarifying what I meant there and apologizing for my poor English? Let me repeat; I am interested in an electric motor fitted bike and when fitted, the hub motor offered for Brompton (80 mm nano) is the most silent and the most lighter and more elegantly (seamlessly) fitted to the Brompton.
I understand now. "silent" and "lighter" referred to the motor. I've you're talking about this one, I don't see any reason it's not trivially thrown on a Tikit with no modification.

4,7,8 are not opinions
If you say so.
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Old 08-13-09, 09:11 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by EastBiker View Post
First, lay off mulleady, as he has way more class than you.
Will do.
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Old 08-13-09, 09:37 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by Biont View Post
Also sorry for my broken English that caused some unclear statements about it.
Nothing to be sorry about bud. This is why we ask questions. Thanks for the reply.

Originally Posted by Biont View Post
My point is I have my own reasons, right or wrong, to choose Brompton over Tikit by far.
Personally speaking, as long as you are happy with the bike, your decision is "right".
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Old 08-13-09, 01:52 PM
  #216  
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Anatoly's website has by far the most even handed discussion of B vs. T that I've seen.

The problem with listing a bunch of pros and cons is that the pros and cons aren't equal for everyone. If you really need the B's small folded size (for some MM commuting or for taking it into certain restaurants), then the small folded size trumps everything. It doesn't matter (up to a point, anyway) how well a bike rides if its size means you can't take it with you when you want to.
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Old 08-13-09, 02:11 PM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by PDR View Post
Yes it is.... I arrive at the station, detach the front S-Bag swing it onto my shoulder, fold the bike and pull the cover out of one of the s-bags rear pockets, cover the bike, step on the train and place the bike between the seat backs. Simple, quick and very well designed.

I would have to agree. The Hyper fold Tikit is amazing to watch for those few seconds as it is folded... but then you are left with an ungainly looking package resembling just about any other folded bike...
The folded Brompton in contrast is just a piece of pure artistic engineering. Put a folded Brompton in a room and look at it from any angle and it is just fantastic.
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Old 08-13-09, 02:23 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by feijai View Post
How is this relevant to the discussion exactly?



The "recent" Brompton (which are the only ones I've tested) has a much lower trail than the Tikit, and has an effective top tube that's the length of the *smallest* Tikits, with no ahead stem options to compensate. (Oh yeah, I didn't list that big disadvantage, my bad: the Brompton's got a highly cramped effective top tube). These aren't opinions: they are simple facts.



Your example is a beautiful job. But it's a ridiculously stupid support for your argument here. You seriously expect people to reweld their rear triangle in order to support a better rear hub?



So far you've not actually countered any statements I made. I think they were fair.

Have you ridden a Tikit? It sounds like you haven't.
Wrong, wrong and wrong! it's all relevant to the argument but you are blinkered. There was the argument about the Tikit being more customisable. Well so is the Brompton post-factory. For your information the rear triangle was merely widened not rewelded! My views are farfrom 'ridiculously stupid' thankyou. You can agree to disagree but why be so dismissive and contemptuous? Who's the troll now? Not Eastbiker from what I see lol!

You like to speak in 'facts' or so you say. I've raised the question which folder will always sell the most across international markets, all things equal. My challenge was the Brompton. If the Tikit is such a fantastic folding bike and the Brompton so limited, why does it sell so well and has done so for over 20 years?

Only irrelevant facts and points in your mind's eye

Finally, I test rode a Tikit for over an hour from the sole supplier in the UK in Bath so wrong again! It's a very nice bike indeed but inferior in its fold dimensions. For longer distance and overall riding I chose a Dahon Cadenza 08. that's better than a Tikit and so is the Dahon Speed Pro TT 2007/8. So what do we compare the Tikit to? For compact multi-mode commuting and urban versatility the Brompton is far from inferior.

I quite like the Tikit and I very much like Bike Friday as a company. Having said that I like Brompton too and it's the best bike and gadget I've ever owned in any category, bike or otherwise!

Last edited by mulleady; 08-13-09 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 08-13-09, 02:35 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by alhedges View Post
Anatoly's website has by far the most even handed discussion of B vs. T that I've seen.

The problem with listing a bunch of pros and cons is that the pros and cons aren't equal for everyone. If you really need the B's small folded size (for some MM commuting or for taking it into certain restaurants), then the small folded size trumps everything. It doesn't matter (up to a point, anyway) how well a bike rides if its size means you can't take it with you when you want to.
Anatoly's side by side comparison is brilliant and highly informative. It's interesting to see that on the whole he views the Tikit as a better bike but the Brompton as a better folding bike. Living in a city like London the choice is a no-brainer, no wonder the city is now so full of Bromptons. I see one almost every 5 minutes walking or cycling in London.

I reference this thread below:
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/573186-brompton-sets-up-subsidiary-usa-well-sorta.html

Very interesting!

Last edited by mulleady; 08-13-09 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 08-13-09, 02:56 PM
  #220  
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Cant we all just get along!


I wish to ride a brompton or bike friday...even a birdy would be a cool ride....
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Old 08-13-09, 05:58 PM
  #221  
Speedo
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Originally Posted by alhedges View Post
The problem with listing a bunch of pros and cons is that the pros and cons aren't equal for everyone.
+6.02e23

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Old 08-13-09, 07:11 PM
  #222  
ChiapasFixed
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Originally Posted by ChiapasFixed View Post
I think this thread will continue for a while yet. Which is fine by me! I would suggest we try an objective comparison and exclude matters of opinion such as "Bike X is the more elegant of the two", or "Bike Y is better looking", and come up with a reasonable, testable criteria.
I am sure we all know the results ahead of time anyway, but here is an attempt at a 10 point criteria set:

1)Comfort of ride over long distances (50km+)
2)Capacity to carry loads
3)Ease and speed of folding
4)Folded size
5)Ease of transportation when folded
6)Ability and cost of customization (color, gearing, riding position, components, etc.)
7)Price point
8)Warranty/customer service (at point of sale and ongoing)
9)Weight (with similar or equal components)
10) Durability

If we all agree these are fair points, we can even set up a poll and see which bike excels in each one. Or feel free to suggest other criteria. In the end, I think they will both be similarly matched, and it will once again be a question of what each person wants to do with the bike or whether they want to support a US or a UK based company, or a host of other subjective, individual criteria.

From my subjective, individual POV, the Tikit wins as it rides very much like a full sized bike (it was built to emulate the riding position of my Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra), and it came from the factory with exactly the components and color I wanted (racks, disc brakes, dynohub, IGH, edelux light, two shades of green) albeit at a price premium. With regards to flex, ever since I greased and "improved" my twiddly knob, the stem flex has disappeared and I can ride the bike as hard as any other with no lateral movement at all.
maybe nobody saw this post before? thoughts?
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Old 08-14-09, 02:18 AM
  #223  
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Yesterday at Liverpool, Lime Street railway station I spotted a guy with a Red Bike Friday Pocket Rocket.... I almost shouted to him “stop, please, let me have a look at your Bike Friday” as he was walking towards the lift. That is only the second BF (the other was a standard Tikit) that I have seen in 2 years of rail/bike commuting. By contrast you can see Bromptons any day of the week.

Bike Friday, proclaims on their website “75 dealers in 20 countries”, (only 5 dealers listed in the UK) whereas Brompton has 70 dealers in Britain alone and 22 dealers in America (3 more than BF have on their home turf). It is no wonder that Bike Fridays are always going to be a rare site on British roads.
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Old 08-23-09, 01:49 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by PDR View Post
Yesterday at Liverpool, Lime Street railway station I spotted a guy with a Red Bike Friday Pocket Rocket.... I almost shouted to him “stop, please, let me have a look at your Bike Friday” as he was walking towards the lift. That is only the second BF (the other was a standard Tikit) that I have seen in 2 years of rail/bike commuting. By contrast you can see Bromptons any day of the week.

Bike Friday, proclaims on their website “75 dealers in 20 countries”, (only 5 dealers listed in the UK) whereas Brompton has 70 dealers in Britain alone and 22 dealers in America (3 more than BF have on their home turf). It is no wonder that Bike Fridays are always going to be a rare site on British roads.
Even if Bike Friday had as much marketing exposure and distributors as Brompton, I'd put my money on Brompton outselling the Tikit in most markets lol!

I wouldn't even compare a Bike Friday to a Moulton in the same breath
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Old 08-23-09, 06:12 PM
  #225  
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oh contrary mulleady. the reasons that u see more bromptons in the uk and not any other folders (dahon, downtube, tikit, etc.) cuz ur government put a double tax for any products that isn't make in the uk. go read on some protectivism. that is y ur petrol is also twice as much compare to the rest of the world.

i remember reading about yan saying that bringing his downtube and selling in the uk was nothing but a headache since day one. they "double" tax his products and thus for uk consumers, they don't see that much saving compare to the brompton.

give it on the plain level field, and u will see more dahon and downtube in the uk if ur government is not sticking the uk consumers in the "arse."

Last edited by vincentnyc; 08-23-09 at 08:23 PM.
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