Kent Mini 8
 

Look at this cute little fella:

http://ridethisbike.com/products/Ken...lding-bike.htm

The designer had the right idea to utilize a "crank forward" geometry to reduce the need for an ultra long seatpost, and allows the rider's feet to reach the pavement much easier when stopped.

I noticed we haven't had much discussion about micro sized folders in months, and thought it would be fun to show this bike.

On another mini/micro bike sold by Ride This Bike, didn't someone on this forum order an EZ Pak recently?

http://ridethisbike.com/products/Sdw...lding-bike.htm

Was wondering if that person had received their bike, and if he or she could post very briefly what their impressions are.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder
:giver:

Can not see the point of a small bike than does not fold compact myself./ It needs to fold on the main tube.

Hummm...seems like a valid observation but look how compact it really is when you see the final folded dimensions compared to other popular folders. The first measurement is the folded length of the bike, second is the height, and the third is width:

Kent Mini 8 folded dimensions: 28" x 23" x 16"

Sinclair A-Bike: 26" x 12" x 6" (A micro folder too, and does fold smaller, but has 6" wheels with many moving joints.)

Pacific Carryme: 35" x 12" x 10.75" (This is of course another "micro" folder with 8" wheels and though it does have a narrower folded size, it is several inches longer than the Mini 8.)

Kent Compact 16: 28" x 23" x 16" (Notice the same as the Mini 8, and this one folds it's frame in half just like any conventional folder.)

Strida: 44" x 20" x 20"

Bikefriday Tikit: 35" x 24" x 15"

Dahon Speed 8: 32" x 25" x 13"

Downtube FS 9: 33" x 23.6" x 12"

The Bikefriday NWT is slightly smaller at 27" x 27" x 10", and the Brompton is significantly smaller folding down to 22" x 22" x 10".

My point is, the Mini 8 can fold compact enough for most people even though it lacks a frame hinge. Why introduce another moving part that adds cost, weight, complication when folding, etc.? Abeit this bike isn't meant to be a direct competition to any of these fine machines with the exception of the A-Bike, and to a lesser degree, the Carryme but it's another contender in the micro folder class.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

Point well made. Your so reasonable Edward Wong!

However I would chose a used 16" older Diblasi or a Dawoo shuttle if I wanted a simple cheap bike with more gears and decent sized wheels.

Thanks for your compliment! :)

Quite honestly, the smallest wheel size I would probably ever go with is 16" too. For the $199 that the Mini 8 sells for, I would probably get the Kent Compact 16, and would have a few bucks left over for some accessories.

But you've heard the saying, "Different strokes for different folks", and it's quite possible that a multi modal commuter, or a college student that needs something to "zip" around a large campus, and not ever be late for a class again might very well see that Mini 8 online, and say, "Hey, that's what I"ve been looking for!". They would probably whip out the 'ol debit or credit card, and order it so fast, it'll make your head spin! :D However someone else might see the same bike, and say to themselves, "Why?".

I'd like to see more discussions of micro folders. They do look like a lot of fun.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

I have an Onza Mini. Which is fun. All the family can ride it including a 7 year old. Its a good bike for tricks like pivot turns and backhops.

Looks cool. Never seen that one before. What is the wheel size on that bike? What is the maximum height that this bike can accomidate?

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

I do not see a spare parts ordering page. I vaguely remember people having trouble getting a pinion gear for mobikey

wheel size is about 12 or 14inches?
It accommodates my 5 foot 11 frame fine as it has a telescopic seat post. This could go higher still.
ITs under geared as a commuting bike ,but fine as a fun bike. It has come in usefull a couple of times so far due to the fact it will stand a BMX track and we have taken it in turns to have a rest riding it whilst other members of the family run!

What's up with all the small wheel hate? Frankly, I'm not a fan of 16" wheels because they're too large to really exhibit the advantages of small wheels such as lighter weight, more aero, compactness, more possible frame geometries, etc and so close to 20" that you might as well go with the more popular/available/cheaper 20" rims and tires.

IMHO you really can't appreciate these advantages until you've ridden a very high quality micro folder like the Carryme which I find to have better quality wheels and bearings than bikes costing 4-5 times as much. After riding one for a number of years there's no doubt in my mind that apart from the gearing bottleneck micro sized wheels are much faster than standard bmx or road sizes and the comfort and safety drawbacks are massively overblown and misunderstood. Unfortunately it won't fit you if you're taller than average (which a lot of folder fans strangely seem to be...I guess because shorter folks are instantly turned off by the bulk of the common 20" format folders), but personally the only reason I even bother with larger wheeled folders is when I want more gears or a cheap 20" beater that I can lock outside while still being technically allowed on the train.

Strangely the only place I prefer larger wheels is on a recumbent because I don't think it's safe to lay down in the road at bumper level and there's no equivalent to a long seat post for recumbents. I know you guys are thinking that I'm just a contrarian since recumbents are one of the few bikes where small wheels are commonly viewed as advantageous, but I kid you not that I started out shopping for a small wheeled recumbent (16" or 20" for gearing reasons) and ended up buying 700c as a compromise to get myself above the car hoods.

Although I can't say I've ridden a 12" or 6" wheel of sufficient quality for me to like it, I love Pacific's 8" wheels. :love:

Ha! Ha! No Chucky, at least on my part there is no "small wheel hate"! Small wheels, and micro folders have their place. Else why would I even start this thread? For stand alone transportation, I just prefer the more mainstream 20" size.

Speaking of recumbents, I've owned 3 CLWB's with the 16"/20" wheel configuration. Those were a ReBike Leisure (1998), a BikeE CT (2001), and an EZ-1 SC I bought used. All 3 put me in a high enough seating position for traffic. Those were fun.

Getting back to the topic, I'm certain the Carryme is an excellent bike. It is probably an underestimated folder, and I bet many folks would be pleasantly surprised if they ever ridden one.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

Smaller wheel hate. That is a bit of an over reaction.

I stated a prefference for a different bike at a given price level, not an objective assessment of smaller wheels verse big wheels. I have ridden a carry me, a mobiky, and an A-bike before, and I think the carry me is competitive even at the high price as their is little with similar characteristics. I do not feel the MObiky offers anything really compaired to other bikes IMO.

I would sooner Rollerblade at this level of bike. I am a former rollerblade coach. Therefore skates for me would be at least as fast, as safe , and massively more compactable. Have you considered rollerblading?

True that small wheels are not a problem on recumbents with an upright seating position, but IMO being laid back is much more comfortable and aerodynamic and for that the seat needs to be higher.

I've been an inline skater for much longer than I've been a cyclist and also agree that it's a great way to travel with a much better compactness/utility ratio than any folder and certainly a much better way to travel at this price point.

However, as good as it is, skating will never be as efficient as biking with a good quality bike. I average 15mph on my Carryme (including stops and starts) and although I could do similarly on skates it takes far far less effort on the Carryme and the only thing that stops me from going faster is the gearing. Rule of thumb for a practiced individual with quality equipment is that skating is 2x faster than running and cycling is 2x faster than skating and I don't think wheel diameter changes that equation (although lack of quality equipment does and skates are certainly much cheaper than bikes at the same quality level).

Also, although skates are more compact, it's way quicker to fold most folders than don a pair of skates. In fact, of the four human powered vehicles in my arsenal (a pair of detachable Hypnoskates, a Carryme, a 20" Downtube, and a Bacchetta highracer); I use the Hypnos or the Downtube when traveling multimodally and don't want to be bothered with a large package (typically when meeting friends who don't cycle or skate), the Downtube gets locked outside and used for longer distances and the skates for shorter distances; I use the Carryme and Bacchetta typically when traveling exclusively by bike, the Bacchetta for far off destinations on the open road and the Carryme for dense traffic or popping in/out of shops (although the Carryme is also great multimodally, multimodal travel for me usually means I'm trying to accommodate others which is usually easier with the Hypnos or locking up the Downtube) and without hesitation I think each bike is the fastest available for the purpose. The only thing I'm not happy about is locking the Bacchetta, but I guess if most bikes get locked most of the time then I can brave the risk for long rides.

Just my 2c. :)

Those bikes look so unstable. 20" wheels are small enough for me, any smaller and I feel suspension is a must. I don't fancy flying over the handlebars.

I found that rollerblading was as fast as my Dawooe shuttle folder over 10 miles. ie both took around 40 mins. The difference was that the skates took more effort but were no slower.

I have always found good quality inlines expensive compared to bikes in the Uk.

I use match quality hockey skates indoors £ 300 and £60 for quality soft replacement wheels. As for outdoors I use 5 wheel speed skates which start at £300 ,my carbon fibre ones are about £500-1000 (when new) and were imported used.AS for replacement wheels in 82-84 mm and 84 plus hardness forget it. Import again. Maybe in the US skates are cheap, in the UK its too much of a minority sport.

You "average" 15mph on an 8" wheeled Carryme as a 48 gear inch singlespeed including starts and stops at intersections? .. that means you would routinely have to approach 25mph to achieve that kind of average speed.. and in traffic... nice feat .. would require frequent spinning at a cadence of around 175.. at 20mph, 140 .. at 15mph 105... maybe your speedometer is not calibrated correctly....

This is a fallacy. First off, a bike is not a train, so endoing from a stuck wheel requires not only that the wheel get stuck, but also that the bike hold a straight course forward, which is much more unlikely than commonly appreciated for many reasons. Second off, two wheels are really a sort of suspension and especially with a tight cockpit (and really small wheels enable tighter cockpits) where the rider's weight can easily shift from front to rear because the front wheel can automatically bob up/down as weight shifts to the rear and vice versa.

You should try a small wheeler sometime. They're a lot better than they look. For a road bike the only drawback is the inherent technical challenge of gearing IMO.

Well how much does a carbon fibre bike cost? I like using rec skates outdoors with stiff ankle support, because it's easy to twist an ankle on potholed roads while darting through traffic and 80+mm wheels are a must for speed (explanation for nonskaters: larger wheels give more leverage pushing off so they're akin to bigger gears). They seem to be cheaper. Plus I'm now using http://www.hypnoskates.com and they only come as rec style skates.

Sounds like you buy higher quality skates than you do bikes.

Don't need a speedometer cause the clock can't be cheated. I don't know what the top speeds are, but I've yet to see anything out run me in the city. If things don't seem to add up then I'm guessing you're overestimating the time lost accelerating from a stop with this bike because like I said there's no way to cheat the clock.

I guess then I should mention that I owned a Lightning Thunderbolt which I bought new from the Hostel Shoppe in summer of 1999. The reclined seat was very comfortable. It was also quite high at 24" from the ground. However since I rode mostly in the city, and urban environment, the low BB of the CLWB's I found to be more intuitive, especially in stop, and go traffic, while the SWB Lightning shined out in the open road.

Today, I don't own a single recumbent but that is about to change in a few weeks.:D

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

When I said an upright seat I meant a bike like the Lightning Thunderbolt. :p

Well Lightnings got the reputation of "upright" seats mostly because of the P-38. You can only recline it so much on that bike because the rear 700c would cause the tire to rub against the back of the mesh. The Thunderbolt could be reclined much more as the smaller 26" wheel places the tire's edge further away from the mesh.

All that said, I did ride the bike with a relatively upright position but it was still more reclined in comparison with the other bikes I owned.

By the way, we're far from topic as this thread was intended to discuss micro folders. This current discussion should be in the Recumbent forum. :D

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

That explains it then .. you have no idea what your accurate average speed is .. you must be guessing at the distance and then applying the time it takes you to negotiate your route.. since most Strida owners (55 gear inch) report comfortable speeds of 12-15 mph (72 to 90 cadence), my guesstimate is that a Carryme with 48 gear inch will be substantially slower 10-13mph for the same cadence .. so unless you average a cadence of 105 with lots of sustained 140 to 170 bursts, you can't be averaging 15mph .. simple math .. besides you, I have not read of another person who claims these kinds of speeds on a singlespeed Carryme.. but I'd love to hear from anyone else who has accurately recorded these kinds of average speeds on an 8" singlespeed 48 gear inch bike in the city..

Feel free to seek whatever kind of testimony you'd like, but the fact of the matter remains that I use the most accurate and true measure of real world speed known to man: GPS calculated distances with a satellite synchronized clock to measure the time difference between start and finish. It's not an estimate like your speedometer gives you, which is thrown off of miscalibration, rider meandering or wobble, wheel slip, and countless other things, but the true bonafide accurate 100% real deal speed.

In short, I know exactly what my speed is. Although I never said it my cadence was comfortable at these speeds. So I suggest you stop trying to make assumptions to derive imperfect secondary measures because I have the gold standard of truth which tests your assumptions and it says you're wrong wrong wrong.

I ordered the EZ Pack several months ago. got it quickly. Larry is the site owner and is a nice guy, had amazing customer service...answering email at just about any time of the day (literally any time of the day, had it happen at 2 am before) and answers the phone too.

i chose the EZ Pack because of its small size and weight (20-21lbs). the 12" tires are fine for city riding. ive ridden on it for at least 1-1.5 hours before. just exploring downtown.

the folding size fits behind desks at college. i can store it anywhere in my car.

goes over railroad tracks fine, small curbs too (3-4 inches or less).

make sure you dont pass the weight limit or carry a lot of crap with you.

i primarily ride road bikes but this bike is great too.

dont expect a superior bike compared to the other folders. it is amazing for the price and i have no regrets spending 154 on it.

i would suggest emailing larry if you have more questions

Thanks for the mini review.

Thanks for your comments. In looking at the pictures alone, the EZ Pack looks like a well made unit, and according to your impressions, it's ride is very good too.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder