jur

I did not read any such stuff. incredulous? condescending? passive-aggressive? Dude this is all of your own making. I doubt that you would find a more helpful, friendly subforum here at the bikeforums. All that these people were doing were sharing their own experiences with BF who have earned a fantastic reputation over the years.

lucille

Oh, man! This is getting beyond ridiculous.... I'm not even going to bother answering that last one, Alec.
I suggest Sesame Crunch starts a new thread, and we will all just quietly back out of this one.

neilfein

+1. Until then, y'all can head over to this thread for some warm fuzzies.

folder fanatic

I still don't like the way this particular forum handles something that does not make themselves "feel good" and "happy." I think if you decide to drop thousands of dollars into anything-especially bikes-you should be able to get the customer service care and the bike you want. My different means of communication from Alec with the retailer or bike company in question would be I would not use e-mail or other quick electronic means of contact-more likely face to face contact, real time phone, or snail mail only. As for this particular thread's direction, well that is the price of letting masses of anonymous people chime in on all sorts of issues. Personally when I had my own little issue with my own folding bikes a while back, I chose not to listen to the crowd and now the problem is solved for me--now and in the future. The 2 Dahons are the same as my imported sewing machines are here in my house-disposable when something major goes wrong with one of them. My more expensive bike and special sewing machine is something far more likely repairable (if and when they break down-not very likely) than the recent numerous imports I do have to buy periodically. The retail stores that offer these sought after & more valuable items are a cut way above the discounters. I do expect different treatment when I visit the different levels of retail-and note a huge difference in quality****. I won't make the same mistake and confuse these items again.

***That is one of the "perks" living in a large city with a large number of celebrities and stars living here. You do learn the difference very quickly around here, no matter what social or economic strata you live in.

IronMac

Yes, that's it...poke the self-admitted Ed Anger...

driftwork

I think one possible way to make some additional use out of this thread might be to discuss exactly what people might 'agree' is wrong with the Bike Friday website and potentially, how it can be improved.

Now, I don't have a PH.D in the psychology of GUI or anything, but it really seems as if the BF website confuses at least as much as it informs.

Also, something that I've never really understood is what seems like a major lack of videos available about Bike Friday products.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why isn't there a substantial repository of streaming, high-resolution videos that show -for example- different BTO models and exactly how they differ and how they work.

It makes sense that the vast majority of BF Tikit videos available on YouTube are made by fans, fair enough, but it almost leaves one with the impression that BF doesn't care enough to make some more of their own.

I think that stuff is minor though, if I lived in the USA, I'd buy a Tikit in a heart-beat.

rhenning

Part of the problem for Bike Friday is they build custom bikes and except for a few base models there are no two bikes the same. I was at a Bike Friday Training Camp in Arizona and we had about 50 Bike Fridays there. I don't believe any two were the same. That is the reason it is important you talk to them when you want a bike. Much ado was made about gearing and the fact is they will if possible gear the bike almost any way you want it to be geared. If you are a web site shopper you are not going to get the information you need because you need to discuss it with someone from Bike Friday. My bike Friday was the second Pocket Rocket made and in those days you used a 46/60 front chain rings and a 11 to 28 rear cassette to get road bike gears. Now with Capreo hubs you can easily do it with normal sized chain rings. My experience has always been the staff at Bike Friday is always wonderful to work with. Roger

vik 

I have one of the early run of Tikits that is coming up on 3 years old this year. The only issue of note has been a crack in the seatmast area that BF repaired for free quickly. I also own a Dahon folder and a BF NWT. I've ridden a couple Bromptons extensively and tested a couple Dahons for my LBS. I haven't come across another folder that rides as well as my Tikit, that folds as effortlessly and that actually fits me [I'm just shy of 6'].

I could buy 2 lower cost Dahons for the price of one Tikit, but I wouldn't want to use the Dahons so that's no deal. I need to buy some new tires and install a new chain on my Tikit this summer. Other than that the bike is aging well and baring theft or an accident I'll be riding the same Tikit in 3 more years.

If something did happen to my Tikit first thing I'd do was call BF and order a new one. The only two things I'd do different next time around are:

1. get a white one!
2. get an IGH or fixed gear version



I throw a leg over every folding bike that crosses my path and I would be more than happy to report I found a better folder than the Tikit, but so far after each test opportunity I get this great sense of satisfaction when I climb back aboard my Tikit.

I should also note that I have rec'd excellent service from BF. Most especially when I got my Tikit initially and I knew nothing about them.

So to answer the OP's question is the Tikit losing fans?...not this one!...

Geekybiker

I grew up in Eugene too. But I've gone way east.

driftwork

Vik,

I'd be very interested in hearing any thoughts you might have on the BIRDY as it might compare with the Tikit.

I imagine you've ridden a few Birdy Bikes in your travels.

There is so very little written on this forum comparing these two excellent folders, largely because -I'm guessing- there are only a few large cities where Bike Friday and Pacific bikes are available.

I know that wheel size (18 for Birdy) (16 for Tikit) makes the comparison somewhat difficult, but I think its worth a shot.

The Birdy does have a lot of what attracts people to the Tikit.

-It folds into an airline size suitcase without too much trouble.
-It has an excellent stable / stiff ride
-It folds relatively small and quickly
-There are lots of accessories for it

And perhaps most importantly, it is also well supported by the company that sells them.

I would like to put ORI / MEZZO in this category also but as I've mentioned elsewhere, ORI bikes are poorly supported here in Taiwan and they are actually made here.

I think ORI now has a distributor in the USA and Canada but that is a very new thing.

Brompton: despite all the discussion on this forum about comparing Bromptons and Tikits, I agree with those who don't think they are in the same category at all. Bromptons are designed for short rides from the subway to your house and back again.

I do however think that Birdy Bikes and Tikits are in almost exactly the same category yet there is almost no discussion about any comparisons.

vik 

I've been very keen on trying out a Birdy, but I've never seen one in the flesh. I did some research at one point and was considering buying one sight unseen, but the uncertainty of how I'd like it and the high cost put me off.

I definitely will try one as soon as possible, but given that several years have passed so far no telling when that might happen!...

The other side of that coin is that the Tikit satisfies my needs so well I'm not highly motivated to buy another folder unless I can really identify what the improvement would be over my existing bike. If you ever read my blog you'll see I modify the hell out of my bikes, but my Tikit is still stock except for some Ergon Grips and Greenspeed Scorcher tires....in my bike fleet that's unheard of and a testament to how satisfied I am with it.

BruceMetras

That's probably the biggest reason, at least in the US... Birdy has not been promoted near as well as Bike Friday through the years.

Wheel size doesn't make the comparison difficult.. Tikit uses 349mm wheels, Birdy 355mm wheels.. that's 6mm difference, or approximately 1/4" .. so almost identical.. the biggest difference is the Birdy is a full suspension folder.. if you need the benefits of suspension with small wheels and narrow high pressure tires, the Birdy is a good choice.

I'm sure the support for Birdy is excellent in Taiwan, as they are made there and have broader exposure than say the US.




The Birdy folds down well, and rides very well .. you're right, there should be more comparisons.. the ride quality of the Tikit is also very good.. I think it comes down to whether or not you desire suspension.. The Birdy suspension is very good and works well for as light as it is..

vmaniqui

Vik - it seems the Tikit was able to cure your folderitis..... i hope it will do the same for me since i got myself a BF Tikit, too.

SesameCrunch

I like the Tikit a lot also, but I have 2 areas to grumble about:

1) The handlepost is flexy. It's not catastrophic or anything, but certainly annoying. I've minimized mine with lowering the 'bars, and I inserted a wood dowel inside the post to help stiffen. Still, it's an area for improvement next go-around.

2) The bike does not stand by itself very well when folded. It's a little better with the rear rack on, but still not really stable..

Other than that, I think it comes close to being a perfect folder. Rides great. Folds well. Now, if they could only make it fold faster ... (just kidding!)

SesameCrunch

I think this statement was true for the older Bromptons (The T series and before). They've lengthened the frame, and I tell you, it rides pretty darn well. I have the M6L, and it's pretty comfy and responsive. I imagine the S-type, with the sportier ride position, can be pretty satisfying for more aggressive rides. I would not hesistate to ride either the Tikit and Brompton for longer rides (say 50 miles).

invisiblehand

Despite SC's title, given the thread has been overtaken by Bike Friday support, support for the Birdy in the US appears to be poor. Undoubtably there are exceptions -- Black Dog Bikes is the source that comes to mind ... however they are leaving the business too -- but the DC area had two dealers for a short period. Both decided to drop the model -- one disappeared (Scooter Commuter) while the other moved to other folders (Bikes at Vienna).

It is a real shame. It does ride well.

vmaniqui

haven't had the chance to test my tikit yet but judging from your inputs i am pretty sure i will also have a blast with this bike. as soon as the sky clears up you bet that i will be the first in a tikit out there.

vik 

Well yes I haven't had the urge to buy another folder because I haven't found anything I liked enough, but I am feeling the urge to add another Tikit to the stable. I have successfully resisted so far...we'll see what happens...

driftwork

I've ridden the Tikit, Birdy (new style and old) ORI C8, and lots of Bromptons.

For me, all of these experiences fall into two categories:

#1 Sporty Rides
#2 Upright Rides

I really feel like these two kinds of riding represent such a distinct difference that its very difficult to compare bikes from one category to another.

#1 The Tikit and the Birdy are definitely sporty rides. I really liked all of the times that I've ridden the BF Tikit but on my most recent ride, I DEFINITELY felt the stem-flex. I know that there are lots of theories about whats really behind this (some folks with large frames claim they don't feel it as much / may have something to do with the tension on the hyper-fold cables) but with the Medium I rode, it was really noticeable. Still, a great ride and super fun.
The Birdy bike I rode really had no flex at all to speak of. It was super rigid. The front suspension seemed to soak up the road quite a bit more than the Tikit and the fold -while quite a bit slower to perform than the Tikit- was a smaller package. Pacific has a Birdy that has a SRAM 3x8 model that really appeals to me.

#2 The Brompton is a Brompton. I've ridden both the S series and the M series. I love the upright, heads-up feel of the M series. Such a fun bike. The fold is crazy convenient. However, as a 'work-horse' bike it was lacking. If I lived in London or Paris, or Taipei or any big city where it doesn't really snow and it can be carried around and used to supplement the public transit, I think its fantastic. However, for me, the braking was absolutely criminal.
That and the proprietary parts and such. I always see pictures of people who are riding around Cambodia with a Brompton. I don't understand how they do it. For me, I can't imagine taking it further afield than the last stop on any given subway line.

The Ori bike I rode on the other hand was fantastic. Great upright riding position. Wonderful stiff frame. Great breaks. Pretty great fold. I was so totally impressed by it but have yet to find a dealer here in Taiwan who will let me ride the higher M9 model. Perhaps the MEZZO element of their business model sold in Europe is doing well for them, I can only guess.

I've even considered the possibility of buying a Montague folding mountain bike as it might be packable with some tear-down.

If I could only get my SURLY Long Haul Trucker to fold.......... the choice would be clear

feijai

No theories: it's quite straightforward. Because BF assumed that size-Large people are heavier and stronger, the size-Large Tikit uses much thicker steel tubing in the stem and in the seatmast (among other areas). If you replace the medium's stem riser tube with a large tube (trivial to do, it's just a hunk of tubing -- ask BF for one), it stiffens up markedly.

(You might also tighten up the cable a bit.)

jur

I haven't ridden a tikit so am unqualified in that respect... but I have been commuting and touring with my Birdy and it's undoubtedly an excellent bike, very little flex and very high quality. I haven't had almost no troubles at all with anything on it and commuting and touring is punishing treatment. All I've had is tighten the spokes once, and the folding luggage rack has developed a rattle due to worn bushes. But if I think on what I have subjected the Birdy to... well no wonder. About 12,000km of hard labour. I have worn out lots of parts by now.

On the minus side, the Birdy steering geometry is quite unstable but I have found I get used to it pretty quickly.

jur

duplicate

bokes

SesameC,
Perhaps Bike Friday's new folding stem has something to do with it. It makes the non-Tikit Fridays commuter friendly, as long as the larger folding size is not an important factor. Maybe some Tikit owners are thinking, "with a NWT and the folding stem, I get a great commuter AND tourer in 1 bike" (?)
That's similar to where I am. I was on the fence about a Tikit for a long time and now I'm thinking about getting a Pocket Rocket Pro and folding stem instead.

DFTR

Despite being the same height and w/ the same inseam I believe as Vik, I didn't find the Tikit to provide a superior fit to the Brompton.
I tried the medium and large frames and preferred the large, but while it was a good fit there wasn't a clear aha this rides better.
If anything, the SpeedPRO TT was more to my liking than the Tikit but mainly b/c of its Bullhorn handlebars. I suspect a Tikit w/ H-Bars would
have felt just as nice. Also, I don't have as much experience or anywhere close to as many bicycles as Vik so I might not be as discerning regarding
fit... perhaps in a year or two, I might be more opinionated on what I want as far as fitting a bike goes.

Still, as some of the concerns were raised regarding Green Gears' customer service; I think their service and answers and availability is excellent.
I think their website navigation is terrible. From what I've heard, their after sales support is the best. I've seen many stories on here of their bikes cracking
or failing and BF jumps in to fix it or ship parts across the world. Even before this volcanic ash spewed forth, you don't see similar stories about other
brands like the Brompton. Again, I wanted to buy a bike from them but I don't approve of their economic model; the penalty/cost associated w/ changes in colors or gearing is too high. If they had a set of options akin to what Brompton does, I would definitely have bought one. Perhaps they should consider just selling the frame itself?

But this decision/model is not the fault of the rep on the phone who's working with you on a bike.

mulleady

Has the troll left lol? Should have had some fun with such a troll guys! I hope you are all well. How are you Sesame? Long time no speak!

I c an only imagine the demanding and overly long emails BF get from some people like the troll on this thread. I wouldn't answer them either lol!

I think the Tikit is being sold off cheap because some people are becoming enlightened and opting for a quality folder like the Brompton!