Tikit losing fans?
04-25-10, 08:37 PM
#101
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OK - A reply from a long time (now retired) salesman:
*The last post by "Alec E" is the longest and most time-consuming to compose that I have seen in 5+ yrs on BIKE FORUMS.
*As a salesman, you have to make decisions on who you do and who you don't work with based upon a gut feeling regarding how hard or easy it appears to be to make the sale. Some folks may eventually buy, but they are typically just as difficult post-sale as they were in the sales process.
*IMO, Alec E is as interested in his visibility in the Forum - if not more interested - than the actual purchasing of a bike, whether a BF or something else.
He is right in one area: Sales people would rather have an occasional, actual phone conversation with the prospect than an all e-mail relationship. As a successful salesperson you have to have some idea of who is, and who isn't, a potential buyer. 'Sales' is NOT customer service job. As a salesman you have to make sales, not just talk (or e-mail) with people.
My suggestion from actual experience on both sides of the equation: Talk to the sales person initially and be truthful about your intentions. Develop the fact you are an actual prospect for the product (if you are), then you should be able to do much of the remainder of the process via e-mail with just an occasional phone conversation.
Bottom Line: Few, if any other companies offer a fully custom-built bike for under $2,000. The process of buying one at this price point may not be for everyone. In addition, how many bike manufactures can you talk to directly about your needs/desires?
I'd hate to be trying to sell Alec E a car!!!
*The last post by "Alec E" is the longest and most time-consuming to compose that I have seen in 5+ yrs on BIKE FORUMS.
*As a salesman, you have to make decisions on who you do and who you don't work with based upon a gut feeling regarding how hard or easy it appears to be to make the sale. Some folks may eventually buy, but they are typically just as difficult post-sale as they were in the sales process.
*IMO, Alec E is as interested in his visibility in the Forum - if not more interested - than the actual purchasing of a bike, whether a BF or something else.
He is right in one area: Sales people would rather have an occasional, actual phone conversation with the prospect than an all e-mail relationship. As a successful salesperson you have to have some idea of who is, and who isn't, a potential buyer. 'Sales' is NOT customer service job. As a salesman you have to make sales, not just talk (or e-mail) with people.
My suggestion from actual experience on both sides of the equation: Talk to the sales person initially and be truthful about your intentions. Develop the fact you are an actual prospect for the product (if you are), then you should be able to do much of the remainder of the process via e-mail with just an occasional phone conversation.
Bottom Line: Few, if any other companies offer a fully custom-built bike for under $2,000. The process of buying one at this price point may not be for everyone. In addition, how many bike manufactures can you talk to directly about your needs/desires?
I'd hate to be trying to sell Alec E a car!!!
Last edited by Foldable Two; 04-25-10 at 08:48 PM. Reason: Format
04-25-10, 09:57 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by lucille
Ermmmm... so anyway... about those Tikits....
04-26-10, 03:32 AM
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This subforum needs a tweeness filter.
I think most people in this sub-forum are fine airing negative views if they are balanced and diplomatic. I see lots of critique posted on various companies and their bikes and have only encountered the occasional fanboy. If you have a problem with the sub-forum (as you do with BF), why on earth would you bother writing such long postings? Again, if BF are such a big issue in your life why not just let your feet do the talking and buy, without long rants, from a company that meets all your demands?
You sound like you are on some vendetta. Perhaps their website isn't their greatest strength or their sales approach doesn't suit you. All I can say is that dialogue is a much easier way to deal with detailed queries than typing out long email replies, which you obviously have the time to do.
Last edited by mulleady; 04-26-10 at 04:20 AM.
04-26-10, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by vmaniqui
you're not serious aren't you sesamecrunch....
04-26-10, 10:33 AM
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Alec:
I spoke with Peter Berra, one of our sales representatives this morning. He has received a couple of your emails and has responded. He did suggest you call in because of the nature of your questions puts you into the custom-build category. This requires in-depth conversations. If you ask a question, we want to know why it's important to you. Usually, it takes a little digging to find out why you want a specific gearing, what type of riding you're doing, additional preferences, how much you weigh (may require upgrades on tubing), etc.
I will try to provide some insights into our sales process:
We follow a consultative approach with people who are interested in BFs. I would say 90% of our sales come from people who contact us directly.
Our goal is to immediately find out why they are calling, assess their needs (sometimes taking an hour or more just to make sure we understand exactly the needs). Many times people can fluctuate their responses to the questions we ask. We just want to be sure we are recommending what is right for them. The major reason we ask for a telephone number is that talking openly about a customer's needs helps us ask additional questions about their preferences. Email makes it difficult to understand all the parameters of custom-bike order. Our number one goal is to get it right. With a 30-day fit guarantee on a custom-bike, we want to make sure it is perfect before producing it.
Additionally, only after we find out one's needs do we ask if they have a budget. The reason we ask is to make sure the "wish list," and reality are in-line. If it is determined that it is in-line with the customer's budget, then we want to know if there is a time frame involved as many of our prospects and customers have trips planned. Being that we hand-make these bikes, our production schedules can fluctuate. If it's an emergency, we can usually find some room in our production schedule.
We are not a hard-sell organization. We are here to help. Our mission is to build the perfect bike for each individual customer. We are truly unique in our mission, views, and hand-crafted production (made in the USA).
We are here to help. If you just prefer email, no worries. Sounds like you know what you want, so tell us and we'll help. But, since you did have questions, the telephone makes it so much easier
Phil Cowles
Director of Marketing
Bike Friday
800.777.0258
I spoke with Peter Berra, one of our sales representatives this morning. He has received a couple of your emails and has responded. He did suggest you call in because of the nature of your questions puts you into the custom-build category. This requires in-depth conversations. If you ask a question, we want to know why it's important to you. Usually, it takes a little digging to find out why you want a specific gearing, what type of riding you're doing, additional preferences, how much you weigh (may require upgrades on tubing), etc.
I will try to provide some insights into our sales process:
We follow a consultative approach with people who are interested in BFs. I would say 90% of our sales come from people who contact us directly.
Our goal is to immediately find out why they are calling, assess their needs (sometimes taking an hour or more just to make sure we understand exactly the needs). Many times people can fluctuate their responses to the questions we ask. We just want to be sure we are recommending what is right for them. The major reason we ask for a telephone number is that talking openly about a customer's needs helps us ask additional questions about their preferences. Email makes it difficult to understand all the parameters of custom-bike order. Our number one goal is to get it right. With a 30-day fit guarantee on a custom-bike, we want to make sure it is perfect before producing it.
Additionally, only after we find out one's needs do we ask if they have a budget. The reason we ask is to make sure the "wish list," and reality are in-line. If it is determined that it is in-line with the customer's budget, then we want to know if there is a time frame involved as many of our prospects and customers have trips planned. Being that we hand-make these bikes, our production schedules can fluctuate. If it's an emergency, we can usually find some room in our production schedule.
We are not a hard-sell organization. We are here to help. Our mission is to build the perfect bike for each individual customer. We are truly unique in our mission, views, and hand-crafted production (made in the USA).
We are here to help. If you just prefer email, no worries. Sounds like you know what you want, so tell us and we'll help. But, since you did have questions, the telephone makes it so much easier
Phil Cowles
Director of Marketing
Bike Friday
800.777.0258
Originally Posted by Alec E
How so?
Stop what? Posting?
How is that worth noting?
This is because you are a troll. They detected this. No warm fuzzies and little fold-up bicycles for you.
Seconded. I assume I would have had a similar experience had they ever answered my questions.
But: do your fellow Dahon dealers smile at you when passing, tossing warm fuzzies into your panniers?
This subforum needs a tweeness filter.
It is such a colossal mess that I wouldn't know where to begin. I tried to look at their selection of bags for concealing the Tikit. I must have gone down three blind alleys and enjoyed two wild goose chases before I found them.
Are you saying this can't be done via email? If so, why? What better format--allowing explanatory links, lists of options, etc--could there be for communicating technical information to someone who'll presumably need to take their time in digesting it? The telephone can only be preferable from the point of view of the salesman, who isn't interested in your digesting--only in your swallowing. We've now seen one or two anecdotes describing this.
In my limited experience--test rides only--they have little in common except that they'll likely end up costing the same once you have the gearing etc that you want, and that they look about equally large when folded. (The Birdy is supposedly smaller, but its larger tubing makes it appear as a sizable hunk of scrap metal relative to the Mezzo or the Brompton. It and the Tikit look like about equally large messes when folded, albeit different kinds of messes. I think the Tikit looks better when unfolded. A lot better, though it took me a while to come to that opinion.) The riding posture of the Birdy seems to me to have little in common with the riding posture of the Tikit. The Birdy is often said to result in a posture like that used when upon a mountain bike. Perhaps this opinion results from a misinterpretation of the Birdy's suspension, and I can't say for certain as I've never once sat on a mountain bike, but I cannot, with the Birdy, escape the notion that I am perched over it, rather settled onto/into it.
As for the Birdy's support, Pacific have been excellent in answering all of my questions about the various Birdy models, and they offer direct sales with lower prices than any reseller, online or otherwise. Their prices include shipping.
I rode a size large and, per the explanation offered above, didn't detect any flex at all.
I didn't see how it could stand by itself at all, and Bike Friday's promotion of it as being easily rolled is tantamount to false advertising. They should leave this possible, half-workable benefit for certain lucky owners to discover for themselves. Promoting it so heavily in their videos, when in reality is works quite poorly, is surely not OK. The bike doesn't feel at all as if it were designed to be rolled. It feels as if it just happens to, a little.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
My problem, with forming an opinion of the Brompton, is that I've had the damnedest time finding a dealer who has the telescopic seat pillar. Now I've found one who has it, but they say it's on their M-type (I'm interested in an S-type), and they say it can't be swapped out. It can't?! Another Brompton dealer has told me that it can.
The standard seat pillar surely can't satisfy anyone with even a 32" inseam, though Brompton's website gives a different figure. I'm amazed every dealer doesn't carry one.
I remain interested in the Brompton only because of how superior their options and coordinate pricing are relative to Bike Friday's. Well, that and the fold. I still agree with someone who said elsewhere on this forum, "A tall person looks daft on an S-type."
Hi, Phil. I've still received no replies to any of the emails I mentioned earlier in this thread. Also, a request: could you offer mulleady a job?
Stop what? Posting?
How is that worth noting?
This is because you are a troll. They detected this. No warm fuzzies and little fold-up bicycles for you.
Seconded. I assume I would have had a similar experience had they ever answered my questions.
But: do your fellow Dahon dealers smile at you when passing, tossing warm fuzzies into your panniers?
This subforum needs a tweeness filter.
It is such a colossal mess that I wouldn't know where to begin. I tried to look at their selection of bags for concealing the Tikit. I must have gone down three blind alleys and enjoyed two wild goose chases before I found them.
Are you saying this can't be done via email? If so, why? What better format--allowing explanatory links, lists of options, etc--could there be for communicating technical information to someone who'll presumably need to take their time in digesting it? The telephone can only be preferable from the point of view of the salesman, who isn't interested in your digesting--only in your swallowing. We've now seen one or two anecdotes describing this.
In my limited experience--test rides only--they have little in common except that they'll likely end up costing the same once you have the gearing etc that you want, and that they look about equally large when folded. (The Birdy is supposedly smaller, but its larger tubing makes it appear as a sizable hunk of scrap metal relative to the Mezzo or the Brompton. It and the Tikit look like about equally large messes when folded, albeit different kinds of messes. I think the Tikit looks better when unfolded. A lot better, though it took me a while to come to that opinion.) The riding posture of the Birdy seems to me to have little in common with the riding posture of the Tikit. The Birdy is often said to result in a posture like that used when upon a mountain bike. Perhaps this opinion results from a misinterpretation of the Birdy's suspension, and I can't say for certain as I've never once sat on a mountain bike, but I cannot, with the Birdy, escape the notion that I am perched over it, rather settled onto/into it.
As for the Birdy's support, Pacific have been excellent in answering all of my questions about the various Birdy models, and they offer direct sales with lower prices than any reseller, online or otherwise. Their prices include shipping.
I rode a size large and, per the explanation offered above, didn't detect any flex at all.
I didn't see how it could stand by itself at all, and Bike Friday's promotion of it as being easily rolled is tantamount to false advertising. They should leave this possible, half-workable benefit for certain lucky owners to discover for themselves. Promoting it so heavily in their videos, when in reality is works quite poorly, is surely not OK. The bike doesn't feel at all as if it were designed to be rolled. It feels as if it just happens to, a little.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
My problem, with forming an opinion of the Brompton, is that I've had the damnedest time finding a dealer who has the telescopic seat pillar. Now I've found one who has it, but they say it's on their M-type (I'm interested in an S-type), and they say it can't be swapped out. It can't?! Another Brompton dealer has told me that it can.
The standard seat pillar surely can't satisfy anyone with even a 32" inseam, though Brompton's website gives a different figure. I'm amazed every dealer doesn't carry one.
I remain interested in the Brompton only because of how superior their options and coordinate pricing are relative to Bike Friday's. Well, that and the fold. I still agree with someone who said elsewhere on this forum, "A tall person looks daft on an S-type."
Hi, Phil. I've still received no replies to any of the emails I mentioned earlier in this thread. Also, a request: could you offer mulleady a job?
04-26-10, 10:56 AM
#108
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I bought my Tikit through Peter Berra. He is the nicest guy in the world. Sincere and helpful. Big bike enthusiast. Not pushy in the least.
I conclude that the problem with Alec E's transaction is not the sales guy!
I conclude that the problem with Alec E's transaction is not the sales guy!
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04-26-10, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
I conclude that the problem with Alec E's transaction is not the sales guy!
04-26-10, 11:33 AM
#110
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Originally Posted by philcowles
We are here to help. If you just prefer email, no worries. Sounds like you know what you want, so tell us and we'll help. But, since you did have questions, the telephone makes it so much easier
Phil Cowles
Director of Marketing
Bike Friday
800.777.0258
Phil Cowles
Director of Marketing
Bike Friday
800.777.0258
04-26-10, 11:51 AM
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Phil thanks for the response. To give you an example of BF bending over backward on building a bike my wife had her 6 month old Pocket Crusoe stolen on a Sunday morning in Tucson AZ. We called BF monday morning as we were there to go biking and received her replacement custom Pocket Crusoe 10 days later. Identical to the first bike except for the tires which BF was out of. If that isn't service I don't know what is. Roger
04-26-10, 01:25 PM
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Will Alec E. accept the invitation and call Phil C. personally, or choose to establish that e-mail only relationship he has desired?
To be cont'd...
To be cont'd...
04-26-10, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
I conclude that the problem with Alec E's transaction is not the sales guy!
Last edited by vmaniqui; 04-26-10 at 02:30 PM.
04-26-10, 02:35 PM
#114
Part-time epistemologist
Originally Posted by SesameCrunch
I bought my Tikit through Peter Berra. He is the nicest guy in the world. Sincere and helpful. Big bike enthusiast. Not pushy in the least.
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A narrative on bicycle driving.
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04-26-10, 02:38 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by mulleady
This is one of the most helpful forums I've ever come across ...
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04-26-10, 03:47 PM
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OK, so now that we have settled all this, BF can go back to building my bike.... 
*counting days...*
*counting days...*
Last edited by lucille; 04-26-10 at 03:58 PM.
04-26-10, 04:38 PM
#117
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Originally Posted by lucille
OK, so now that we have settled all this, BF can go back to building my bike....
*counting days...*
*counting days...*
Give them a phone call - they should have some idea at this point.
Actually, your bike could be holding up shipment of my wife's folding handle bar stem. :>)
04-26-10, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mulleady
This is one of the most helpful forums I've ever come across, sorry I disagree Folder Fanatic!
So it is for Alec. If he is a Troll, well there is much ado about nothing and much time spent here was wasted. If he is legit, that is between Bike Friday and him to iron out their difficulties as in a marriage. A wise person stays out of something like that!
Last edited by folder fanatic; 04-26-10 at 05:27 PM.
04-26-10, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by folder fanatic
So it is for Alec. If he is legit, that is between Bike Friday and him to iron out their difficulties as in a marriage. A wise person stays out of something like that!
04-26-10, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lucille
OK, so now that we have settled all this, BF can go back to building my bike....
*counting days...*
*counting days...*
you know the protocol here - post pics as soon as you got it. and advance congrats on your new bike. i got a tikit and loving it.
04-26-10, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by vmaniqui
lucille,
you know the protocol here - post pics as soon as you got it. and advance congrats on your new bike. i got a tikit and loving it.
you know the protocol here - post pics as soon as you got it. and advance congrats on your new bike. i got a tikit and loving it.
04-26-10, 08:38 PM
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by the way i had my first commute with my tikit and my observations:
1) feels like i am riding a full bike
2) handle bar not twitchy. i can walk it unfolded without holding the handlebar. just like the regular bike.
3) gear shifting is smooth
4) when folded i like it that it is resting on it's rack. that way bike will not move and slide back and forth
5) folds in 5 or less seconds depending on my arm strenght and so on...
my complain:
1) when folded and if i roll it as i walk longer i can feel that my arm is hurting since i have to balance it. it rolls on one wheel only. so hard to balance. i can solve this by unfolding the bike as it will only take me 5 seconds to unfold. this is where dahon beats it hands down. on my dahon mu xl i can roll it on it's two wheels so i don't need to balance it. and it seems it balances by itself when rolling. even if i roll my dahon longer i feel no pain in my arm.
here is my tikit inside our shuttle. and on the second picture you will notice that i have to seat way at the back to give my co workers enough room. on the third picture that's my tikit waiting for our lightrail train ride on the way home.
Tikit 14..jpg Tikit 16..jpg TIkit 12..jpg
1) feels like i am riding a full bike
2) handle bar not twitchy. i can walk it unfolded without holding the handlebar. just like the regular bike.
3) gear shifting is smooth
4) when folded i like it that it is resting on it's rack. that way bike will not move and slide back and forth
5) folds in 5 or less seconds depending on my arm strenght and so on...
my complain:
1) when folded and if i roll it as i walk longer i can feel that my arm is hurting since i have to balance it. it rolls on one wheel only. so hard to balance. i can solve this by unfolding the bike as it will only take me 5 seconds to unfold. this is where dahon beats it hands down. on my dahon mu xl i can roll it on it's two wheels so i don't need to balance it. and it seems it balances by itself when rolling. even if i roll my dahon longer i feel no pain in my arm.
here is my tikit inside our shuttle. and on the second picture you will notice that i have to seat way at the back to give my co workers enough room. on the third picture that's my tikit waiting for our lightrail train ride on the way home.
Tikit 14..jpg Tikit 16..jpg TIkit 12..jpg
Last edited by vmaniqui; 04-26-10 at 11:57 PM.
04-26-10, 10:36 PM
#124
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I found that I eventually got used to rolling the Tikit. Definitely builds up arm strength... especially when I had to carry it up and down the stairs of the train platform (running, because I was almost always late).
--sam
--sam
04-27-10, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Lalato
I found that I eventually got used to rolling the Tikit. Definitely builds up arm strength... especially when I had to carry it up and down the stairs of the train platform (running, because I was almost always late).
--sam
--sam
by the way have you changed your handlebar to a regular 22' size. i wanted to put an ergon grip but it looks like i either have to get a new handlebar or slide the brake and shifter to the center to accommodate the size of ergon. the standard grip on the tikit is tiny.
