stevegor

I hope.

The story:
A while ago I spotted a F frame Moulton at my local recycle yard, it needed a rebuild but everything was there. For some insane reason I walked away from it, I've wanted one for years, then in another fit of total insanity I told my friend, a bicycle collector and a Moulton owner about it. He rushed out and bought it for $5 and the next day refused to let me claim it back. Alas I had lost it, until now....

You see, my friend also has been looking for a Butcher's bike for quite a few years..... then at Saturday's club road race I was talking to another friend who asked me did I know anyone who wanted one. I've claimed it, I rang my bike collector friend and offered it to him for a swap for MY Moulton and guess what?? He's agreed to the deal!!

So finally, on Wednesday I will have my first Moulton.

It will need a total rebuild, but I'm thinking metallic black with racing drops and Shimano cranks, brakes & levers etc. Sort of a classic with modern upgrades.


Some Qs.
1: Can I use a modern Moulton front fork on this model?
2: What is the largest wheel size I can use, 17" or 18"?
3: If I use 16" rims, can I get 36 hole? I think Velocity make some.
4: Is the BB shell 24 tpi or the annoying Raleigh 26 tpi?
The bike is branded as a "Malvern Star" Moulton. M.S. is a famous Aussie bike brand.

LWaB

Very unlikely you can use a modern Moulton fork, the F-frames use a unique lower bearing set.
The standard F-frame wheel size is 349 but the S versions often used the 369 size with shorter reach brakes. The Birdy 18" size is 355. What wheel sizes are you actually referring to?

All except the Mk3s are standard 24 too.

Fang66

Pics please.

jur

Yes pics or it didn't happen.

mulleady

Do your homework for your studies first lol!

stevegor

Wheel size = 349 = 16"? However my friend has a Moulton Speed with 17" so I could try those to see how they fit.

By now you guys should realize that I'm pretty slack when it comes to posting pics and it seems any decent cameras we're got are now dead.

Francis, I just couldn't face it today, so I took one of my classic steel roadies for a spin, vowing to return to the studies when I got back....... didn't happen. Need to get serious about this as my future employment depends on it.

Dynocoaster 

What is a Butcher bike?


I didnt know so I had to look it up.

stevegor

Thanks Dynocoaster,

My friend has a business restoring British sports cars like Mini Cooper S, Jags, MGs etc and he wants this bike to ride down to the Post Office to get the mail .......... He's a bit eccentric, an incredibly strong cyclist and a nice guy.
I think it's a fair swap.

SesameCrunch

What a great story!!! Adds to the history of the bike. Would love to see pictures when you get some.

Forks - I had to get a replacement for my MK3 during restoration. Found one through the Moulton Bicycle Society in the UK. Hope you can source one too.

You're lucky you don't have to mess with the 26 tpi Raleigh bottom bracket. PITA!

When does restoration begin? Straight away? Keep us posted on progress!!!

LittlePixel

Justice was served!
Can't wait to see what you do with it...

1: Can I use a modern Moulton front fork on this model?
That would rule but I think not unless you did some serious re-engineering

2: What is the largest wheel size I can use, 17" or 18"?
Go with iso sizes so as not to be confused (birdy 18" is smaller than Moulton 17". I think 369s are the ceiling here.

3: If I use 16" rims, can I get 36 hole? I think Velocity make some.
Maybe you could sweettalk them.

4: Is the BB shell 24 tpi or the annoying Raleigh 26 tpi?
24

The bike is branded as a "Malvern Star" Moulton. M.S. is a famous Aussie bike brand.
cool - would love to see the logo.
h

stevegor

Hi LP,
Long time no hear, hope all is well, and thanks for the answers

SC,
As I have 3 other projects on the go, 2x R20s and 1x Classic Reynolds 531 road bike with period Dura Ace comps, this Moulton might have to wait.... if I can resist the urge!!

Problem is I'm already daydreaming about what I want to do with it, (sorry to the purists I like to modify old bikes).

Idea 1: IGH either SA 3 or 8 spd or even Shimano 11 spd, if it fits.
Idea 2: I have some Suntour double Sprint hubs, rear is 5 spd
Idea3: Or some Ultegra hubs.

If I decide to with a defailure system I'd be looking at large rings like 60+/48+ I wonder about what type of FD I would need......
Jur, what do you use?

Is using a Schlumph dual drive OTT?
Is brazing on Vbrake bosses totally disrespectful to the Moulton image?

For now I'm picturing, as I said earlier, metallic black frame, rims, stem, seat post, spokes and contrasting white saddle and bar tape on the drops.

stevegor

Well, I picked up the butcher's bike today, then went around to my friend's work shop and traded it for the Moulton, (It's metallic red).

All I can say is we're both crazy and there's a lot of work ahead of us both.
The butcher's bike will need some frame straightening, but should be ok
The Moulton frame is overall in good condition, so it should be ok too, now for new wheels, brakes, seat, bars, cranks............

jur

I used a plain 105 derailer on my Moulton, with a little spacer to place it further back to handle the 60T ring. It's marginal but it works, though not well enough for a TdF entry.

rhm

I used 36H rims in the 349 size on mine. I cannot remember the brand. I remember they were pretty cheap, and find them attractive... they have a nice smooth parabolic shape. Remind me to check, and I'll tell you what they are.

I would not want bigger wheels on mine, because the BB is already pretty high. In fact if I were doing it again I would consider 305 rims and hub brakes on both wheels. Of course 305's normally take fatter tires and 349's take thinner tires, so in the end the wheel diameter is about the same, so that doesn't matter much.

I would strongly recommend the Sturmey Archer 8 sp hub for this bike (that's what I used on mine) except for one thing: It's just soo difficult to mount the shifter on a drop bar.

SesameCrunch

Here's what I did on my MK3 to resolve that:



The SA8 is a good hub, but I switched to the Duomatic (now S2C). The MK3 doesn't have rear brake bosses, so the coaster brake was a good fit. Plus, cleaner look without the cables running to the back.

rhm

Yeah, I know that trick (and it looks cool!) but my hand doesn't seem to bend that way.

But hold on now, is that a steel handlebar? Steel handlebars are often 22.2 mm, so maybe you could have mounted the shifter in the drops, like a bar end shifter, almost.

Speaking of bar end shifters, I see Jtek is now back in business and you can order their bar end shifter for Sturmey Archer 8sp hub for $80 US. I'm not sure whether that's for the XRF8 or the XRF8(w) but I'm inclined to think it's the former (only).

Folder4life

Wow, to pass up something like that for only $5, haha. Glad it worked out in the end. It sounds like a great project.

stevegor

I could use flat bars so the shifter is easy to mount and I have a few sets of Origin 8 bar end drops, it looks a bit square but it gives me the drops I want.

SC's idea looks interesting, I have considered that before.... No shifting problems with the cable angle?

rhm, I'll research that bar end shifter idea, and I might stay with the 349 size wheel I imagine there is better tyre availability. thanks.

Thanks Jur...... DeR or IGH? DeR or IGH? DeR or IGH?

BTW, my friend has a Moulton Speed 5, (not6), so when he first got my Moulton he wanted to clone it to match his, so.......... he chopped off its tail

Guys, I want this bike to be something special so I'll be calling on your expertise and advice a lot in the future!!

Sammyboy

You can also mount a grip shift:

On a Hubbub bar end adaptor (down this page)


https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/shimano-nexus.html

On a Minoura space grip, stood off from the bars:



Or cheapest of all, on an MTB bar end, mounted to your stem so it protrudes sideways further down than the bars. This is one I want to try.

tcs

https://jtekengineering.com/jtek_bar-end_shifter.htm

I don't have mine built up on a bike yet, but I measured the total cable pull of the TSS82 twist shifter that came with my XRK8(W), seven clicks from 1st to 8th, and the total cable pull of the Jtek bar end for S-A 8, seven clicks from 1st to 8th, and they were the same within .3mm, which was within my measurement error. Just to be sure, I contacted Jtek, and they said they hadn't had any complaints.

The S-A 8 is available in a narrow OLD, 28 spoke hole version and I'd use that. I've built up ISO349 wheels with 36 spokes before and the spokes are so close together it's hard to get in there with a spoke wrench!

Spreading the rear forks of an old F-frame is a project and a half unto itself.

HTH,
tcs

stevegor

RE: Spreading the forks.

I have mentioned this before, I have a skilled framebuilder here who works in steel, Alu and carbon fibre.
It is not beyond him to build a new rear end and front forks to accommodate 406 wheels and a wider diameter IGH.

Like I said...... I want this bike to be special.

invisiblehand

Cool!

But would you not be worried about BB height?

Perhaps there would be a lot less risk by sizing it for 349 and 355 wheels. The combination of the two gives you a wide range of tire widths.

stevegor

You have to forgive my fanciful day dreaming, I've been waiting a long time for a Moulton....

I just got back from my friend's workshop after looking at his Moulton Speed 6 with 17" (369) wheels,
I prefer those to the 16" 349 size, but there isn't a lot of tyre choices. Conti and Schwalbe make a 17" tyre and apparently IRC as well, not sure who else.

I see your point Invisiblehand, the BB would be pretty high with 20" wheels, perhaps too much work, anyway my frame builder and I can make some decisions later.
It's good to have him there for simple brazing jobs like bidon mounts, cable eyelets and frame strengthening.

BTW would brazing on bidon mounts be HERESY in the eyes of Moulton owners?

invisiblehand

I saw pics of Moultons with Schwalbe Kojaks.

LWaB

The S series Moultons from the '60s often had bidon braze-ons.