My first folding bike was a Downtube FS with Velocity disc wheels. So they work with disc brakes for sure. However, you should be aware that:

1) You can't install a rear rack, as the rear section is on a suspended swing arm.
2) The frame is beefy to be sure, and the weight of the bike reflects that. It's probably close to 29lbs in real life.
3) The components are cheap. For the kind of riding you do, you're going to want to upgrade the drivetrain for sure.

So, while I am a DT fan in general, I would personally not choose it for the kind of commuting you're doing.

I have owned both Brompton and Bike Fridays. For your purposes, I would choose the BF for customize-abilty and maintainability. The Brompton has a lot of proprietary parts. And it looks like you will be putting wear and tear on your bike.

you can put a standard rack on a Xootr Swift; I've done it. There are eylets on the back, and you just put the clamps on either of the quick-release levers that holds the seatpost in place. Folds just fine.

I'm not sure but think you could just swap the fork on a Swift to mount discs. there's one right here:

http://www.xootr.com/gallery_swift-f...0disc%20brakes

if you don't need a teensy fold, the Swift sounds like a great bike for your needs. And I bet it will be cheaper than a Bike Friday

I would be looking at the front-suspension DT model, not the full-suspension model, so the rear rack shouldn't be a problem. Also helps save weight, especially after swapping out to a rigid fork. I've read a lot about the cheap components, but I'd be making a bunch of parts swaps almost immediately so that's not much of an issue. I would be swapping in drop bars with STI levers, Avid Road Discs, an XT derailer, a different (custom-spaced) cassette, saddle and pedals. Most likely also an old Ultegra 600 crank with a 52t ring, so while I'm doing that I might as well swap in a quality BB. I already own every single one of these parts except the fork, so the expense is minimal.

What's that? Why yes, I AM practically rebuilding the bike back up from the frame. Except for its big wheels and inability to fold, I have my commuter bike dialed. I would just as soon just buy a frameset and wheelset rather than a complete bike. One of the attractions of the Downtube is that I AM getting cheap components, which saves me money. As long as the frame is of high quality, I'm good. Sure, I'd love to just buy a frameset and wheelset from either Swift or BF, but I doubt they offer that option (though maybe I should inquire).

Thanks for the confirmation!

Any idea what they did to get the rear disc mounted? Every picture I've seen of the Xootr version of this frame lacks disc tabs, and since it's aluminum it would not be an easy mod. Unless they've just recently updated the design? Maybe an email to Xootr is in order.

You can get the Xootr Swift frameset only. They have been doing that since the start via the designer, Peter Reich.

and these days, directly from the company: http://www.xootr.com/swift-frame-set.html

I know what you said about wheel size but what about 24 with discs? http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/iosxl.htm

Unfortunately, my transit agency has two rules with respect to folding bikes:
1. Folding bikes may be carried anywhere on the train (or bus), but must not exceed 20" in wheel size.
2. Spaces designated for bikes must NOT be used for folding bikes.

You'd HOPE rule #2 would only be applied to 20" and smaller folders (those covered by rule #1) but the rules do not say that. At least technically, a 24" or 26" folder isn't allowed AT ALL. Realistically, in most cases I could probably get away with it, but some of the fare inspectors and train operators have been getting pretty strict. I'm not willing to risk it.

Whoa, did not know that! Perfect! That and a wheelset are all I need. I'll contact Xootr and ask if it is disc compatible or could be ordered that way.

If it wasn't for the light to moderate offroading needs and price under US$1000, I would continue to suggest the modified Brompton since it would offer you the BEST FOLDED option.

I am more inclined to suggest a Downtube (if money is an issue) or a custom Bike Friday (if you have the super power of unlimited budget). Whatever you do, the final product will be quite unique and we ask as part of the natural laws of retribution, lots of high quality pictures focusing on every single detail/changes made.

Once again, good luck on your final decision.

Except for the one you linked, most 20" recumbent forks have way too much offset and 20" BMX forks are extremely heavy, even the ones for racing. You could get a carbon fork for the price of the aluminum recumbent disc fork you linked.

The Swift has a very high A-C length...you will not find a fork to match, but the stock fork is fortunately steel so you could get disc braze ons for that and use V-brakes in the rear (think of it as a backup as you don't really need a rear brake anyway).

The rigid Downtube fork is not disc compatible. Also, did I mention that the disc compatible suspension fork is 4.5 pounds?

I second this opinion. I'm up in Seattle and have no problem with rim brakes (drum dyno would be nice). Bike Friday would be another nice choice. I don't think the'll do discs on the fork of the Tikit, but discs on a l
Llama would be nice.

Good luck and report back when the dust clears. I'm interested to hear what you end up with.

Thanks, and I absolutely will do so!

A note on racks : how big are your shoes? the 42.5cm chainstays of BF designs can make it difficult to get a rack that gives you good heel clearance, go with tubus cosmo rear rack, you can get adapters that will allow for attaching it to rear stays and you can get the panniers lower with the second horizontal bar. The BF rack (have one, don't like) doesnt need to put the load so high, even on a 20" bike. Any popular panniers ortlieb+vaude+carradice will still hang with enough ground clearance, and also the tubus design is narrower width at top which will angle bag away from and over the rear derailleur. Also go with shimano shadow rear deraiulleur to have less protusion.

Any word still on when swift will do steel frameset? Seemed like it was in the works for a while back then, but no more.

OP hard requirement: ISO406mm wheels
Brompton: ISO349 wheels

Good point. You have to pedal too damn fast with those small wheels to get anywhere IMO...;)

Talked to the Xootr folks today. No disc tabs. Also talked to BF. They will do discs, although they encouraged me to consider rim brakes for the rear because that's one less rotor to get bent in a folding/packing situation. But they will do it, and they will install a braze-on that allows a standard rack to clear the disc caliper without using a standoff -- very nice. Extremely knowledgeable and helpful (consistent with everything I've ever heard about Bike Friday).

I have to admit, I'm leaning towards the Swift (the steel one from CAT/HPM, which does include discs as an option). Not just because the price would likely be quite a bit lower (though still a bit over $1k). There's a cleverness and elegance about the Swift's design that really appeals to me, and I really like the opinions I'm reading so far about the riding experience. I'm just starting to read the Swift thread and have a long ways to go.

Of course the real decision will come after the test ride. Sometime in the next few weeks I'll find a way to get myself down to Eugene for test rides of both bikes. Being able test ride both bikes in the same day, and see how I like their folding mechanisms firsthand, will be fantastic.

Because the Swift has a steel fork, you can have mounts brazed on in a jiffy. Repainting is limited to the fork. Dropouts are standard so a standard front hub is used.

OK, the Swift does fold, so it seems to meets your transit agency's policies. But just a note here: On the HPM web site they say the Swift is "designed to fold quickly and easily into a 10″x21.5″x30″ unit". It's hard to describe this misinformation in charitable terms.

The only folding the Swift does - and I think the only folding you'll want to consider in the daily dashing up and boarding the light-rail multimodal situation is the 36.5 x 40.25 x 20" quick fold. See:

http://www.xootr.com/swift-folded-dimensions.html

Every other Swift pack-down configuration involves breaking out tools and disassembling part of the bike.

As multi-modal folding bikes go, 36.5 x 40.25 x 20 is HUGE. Compare this to the Brompton's 22.2 x 21.5 x 10.6, the tikit's 15 x 24 x 35, or even the plebeian Dahon Eco 3's 11.7 x 31.2 x 25.7. The Dahon Ios XL, with its 24" wheels that you say your transit agency will not accept, folds into 14.9 x 30.7 x 32.2 - still substantially smaller than the Swift.

IMO in daily multi-modal use the Swift will quickly seem like a large, awkward package both boarding/deboarding and also once aboard and occupying space as you stand with your fellow passengers.

But of course it's your call and you may be willing to put up with this to get the other things you want.

tcs

It's hard to be charitable about THAT misleading bunch of statements... sure the Swift is larger than most other folders when viwed from the side, but as for floor space it occupies... that is limited to a narrow strip. The Swift easily leans against a bulkhead occupying very little floor space unlike other folders which can be quite bulky sideways, occupying more floorspace.

Take a Moose rack with you. Just sayin'.

How about it, Brompton and tikit riders who multi-modal regularly? Agree with Jur that the Swift is a dandy multi-modal folder?

Yes I think the Swift is a fabulous multimodal folder! I ride 13 miles each way into Boston. The Swift is nearly as fast as my road bike (extra 2 minutes); I can't imagine a Brompton covering that kind of territory anywhere near as quickly. BF probably but for more $.

When it's blizzarding outside, I hop on the commuter rail and come home that way instead. It takes 10-15 seconds to pop out the seat post, fold the rear wheel up, and turn the handlebars sideways. It's a nice narrow fold, especially if you use quick-release or folding pedals, and leans up against the wall of the train and out of the way. A frame that bends in half would actually be more awkward for the train I ride.

That said, if you're trying to get on a bus then a narrow fold may not be what you need and you probably want a bike where the frame bends in half. But you are going to sacrifice ride quality from what I hear. (Btw, there is nothing more fun than blowing past people on your Swift when they think you are riding one of those "toy" bikes.)

The only thing that really bugs me about the Swift is having to relocate the seat post after a fold so you have the right height and so the seat is straight. I think BF has a better system. So that might be a concern for a multimodal commuter (I don't take the train all that often). What I've done to address this is mount a frame pump on the seat post so that I insert the seat post until the frame pump barely touches the frame. Works great.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=190512

Hey, OP. If you talk with HPM out of Eugene, OR they make all Steel Switfts with Disc Brakes (not to mention IGHs) as an options:
http://hpm.catoregon.org/?page_id=214

They've also got a new / interesting frame mounted front rack that looks pretty beefy...

It seems to me that the only people really qualifed to comment on a Swift's suitability for multi-modal commuting are those that do it regularly.

From the sounds of the OP, I think a Swift would suit him just fine.

As has been echoed many times on this forum: great for trains, not so much for buses.

FWIW I recently decided to upgrade my Downtube with a fixed Swift-style riser instead of upgrading to an actual Swift frame. Why? Because the folded Downtube can be rolled into a store and used as a (poor) shopping cart and I also like the safety advantages of a lower "top" tube and the extra comfort provided by a longer (more flexible) seatpost.

I think the fixed riser will provide 90% of the Swift's advantage.

+1 The regular ALUMINUM swift has a steel fork. Get the frameset from xootr.com and take the fork to your local brazer. I agree with Bike Friday that since the rear tire can't provide much braking traction anyway, you'd be better off avoiding the extra complexity and weight of a rear disc and safer if your "backup brake" has different failure modes to decrease the chances of both brakes being simultaneously damaged.

For $699 you can also get the new Swift SS and it has free shipping. http://www.xootr.com/folding-bicycle.html This way you can ride it see how you like it and change things as you go.

Your need to mount a Burly Piccolo rack for the youngster's trailerbike, perhaps the BF is a good choice..

Alan would know of the Piccolo
Though the Piccolo is a design made by Burly's people after he left the Cooperative, 20 years ago .

But the rack would likely have to come off, to fold .
I would think a seat post mount on the towing bike would be more reasonable way to go

Perhaps a Beam rack can be fabricated to adopt the Piccolo hitch?

The BF guys told me that a standard (26") rack would fit the Llama just fine. I will bring a Moose rack along just to be sure. Not too interested in any of the seat post mounted versions -- Burley's is a far superior, more stable design. We have Moose racks installed on 3 bikes, so we're pretty committed to it.

Disc braking puts quite a bit more bending force on the fork legs than rim braking, and the fork needs to be designed for it (i.e. beefier tubing in most cases). A decade ago when a lot of mountain bikers were trying to figure out how to retrofit their rigs for discs, there were a number of failures of forks that had had disc tabs welded on. When I'm descending out of the West Hills at 35mph every evening, my life depends on my fork, stem and handlebars. I take no chances with those parts.

I'll ask Bike Friday and HPM about their disc options and confirm that their forks are specifically designed for disc use. If not, I can always get a custom fork made to my exact specifications for $250. Combined with the Xootr frame (assuming I'm willing to give up the rear disc -- gotta do some thinking about that) it wouldn't be a terribly expensive route to go.

Since the fork legs are significantly shorter for 20" wheels the bending moment will be much smaller. Although I could believe that Bike Friday would use heavier tubing for their disc fork because they already use different tubing for different size riders, the Swift is a comparatively ham handed design whose stock fork is already overbuilt. I seriously doubt HPM specifically designed their fork for disc usage, but rather simply recognized that the stock fork is already substantial enough to handle all sorts of abuse. Go ahead and ask them if their disc fork is any different from the Xootr fork; I'd be very interested in their response.

Beware that the Swift fork steerer tapers from 1-1/8" (at the headset) to 1" (at the stem riser) and has an unusually large axle to crown height. Although people have upgraded to untapered forks with smaller AC heights, so if you want a stouter fork I'd check out the BMX disc offerings before getting a custom heavyweight. Even BMX race forks billed "for light riders" should be able to take more punishment than you'll ever see on the road.

But given how picky you are about everything from the components, to the geometry, to the design of the fork tubing I think you should just get a Bike Friday. They cater specifically to customers like you.