I also think 16" vs 20" wheels are a non-issue, at least for commuting. The only time I have been wishing for bigger wheels was when I was on a tour on rough soft dirt roads where the small wheels were clearly worse off.

As for rolling over bits of pavement etc, I think most people will adapt their riding style to suit whatever bike they are using, eg just give a little jerk on the bars to hop the front wheel up with pavement ridges.

When my Curve SL was new, it developed some terrible creaking from the frame hinge after a few weeks of riding. Greasing everything didn`t help. Finally, I took off the hinge and closely checked everything. I could see that the mating surfaces, weren`t flat. It looked like paint had flaked off from surrounding parts(or dripped during production?) and now was compressed onto the hinge face mating surface just enought to cause an uneven surface. After removing the stuff with fine grained sandpaper and re-greasing, the bike has been silent for the most part with only periodic creaking from the seatpost clamp (which is easy to take care of).

After testing a number of folders in 2008 I settled on a Dahon MU SL (had PDI done before collecting from store)..... I experienced the same creaking noises, frame hinge ware and clamp issues.... after 6 month that bike was sent back to the dealer and replaced with another..... I soon started to see the exact same issues with the second bike... that was also sent back within a few months.... I was then sent a third replacement which was an updated 2009 model so I had high hopes that this would be a better bike as there were a few design changes..... however on unpacking the bike I discovered a chunk of metal chipped out of the hinge mating surfaces .... granted, you might not notice it when the bike was in the ready to ride state, but that is not the point, I had paid good money for what was a fairly expensive bike. In the end the bike was sent back to the dealer (without being ridden) and I was given a refund of the original price I paid. I know one person on here has said in the past “that you had six months use of those bikes for free” but to that I will say, that if the bike had been up to the quality I expected at that price point then I would not have had the problems or have had the need to return them.....

There are now 4 Bromptons (and another on the way) within my family and NONE of those bikes have had even the smallest problem or quality control issues that I had with those Dahons.....



The creaking noise I had seemed to be coming from the seat clamp... there is a little steel grub screw that holds the clamp onto the frame had worked loose. You get noticed riding a bike like the MU SL... but when kids are laughing because your bike is making LOUD creaking noises as you ride past it is embarrassing! BTW, I am well within the weight limit for the bike.

Another issue I found was that the paint seemed rather prone to chipping and if you are not careful as to how you lower the handlebars, they can hit the front forks and cause chips to the paint. The Dahon MU SL is a nice looking bike but I found that the quality was not what I had hoped for

Around the same time I had the MU SL, my Sister (who lives in Germany) bought a Dahon Curve D3 in pink.... and she also has had a number of problems with that bike.

The solution? I bought a Custom order Brompton S-Type, lightweight titanium in raw lacquer..... after 2 years of commuting it still looks like new, there are NO rattles, creaking noises and nothing has broke. I replaced the Schwalbe Kojaks and brake pads last week because they were getting worn down.
My Sister has a nice pink Dahon Curve for sale in Germany if anyone is interested..... reason being is she bought a new custom (yellow) Brompton last year, then a second hand ivory and green one..... and last weekend at the German bike show ordered a custom hot pink Brompton...
Would I buy another Dahon? errr NO!

I'm not having a go at Dahon.... just saying what I experinced.

Owenfinn, PDR, thanks for the posts. Relatively easy paint chipping is also my experience with the Mu P24. It's too bad the Dahon folks don't iron out all these bugs. It wouldn't be that hard to do.

looks like a Dahon hatefest .... we are just waiting for Mr.... to get all 6 people together.
I dont quite remember PDR but there are a few things we found out during the last back and forth on the Dahon forum left out of your description, or am I just old and have forgotten ? But lets just forget this anyhow, You are happy with your Brommy and thats fine and how it should be.

Again there is much more chatter about Dahon as they make 500 times as many bikes as everybody else.
Dahon users are usually not *****in about inadequate braking , heelstrike, funky chaintensioners, etc, etc etc of different brands. The majority is quite happy with their bikes and riding versus typing .... we have the occasional ex employee posting BS and and and .....
There is a lot of mine is better than yours going on as Brommy and BF owners have spend considerable more money for their bikes than most Dahon owners.... now they think they have to find reasons why they spend as much money .....bonding together with others to form a stout allegion... lol

Having said that.

It is important what YOU like, if you ride any bike we all are a step ahead in the right direction. ANd not everybody is supposed to only like one brand versus the other. All have advantages and dissadvantages, there is no all inclusive all best out there for everybody.

Thor
biased Dahon Dealer

brakemeister, it seems too strong to call this "hatefest". My intention in posting this was to find out what experiences other Dahon users have - if my experience has been an exception or more of a norm. Personally it makes no difference to me who makes the bike I ride as long as it performs well for my use. It is obvious that a Brompton or a BF would be better as they cost twice as much as Mu P24. So my intention is not comparing an 800-dollar bike to a 1500-dollar bike; that would be foolish. Obviously, a bike that costs 2x less is not going to be as good. My own point is that I didn't buy the proper bike for my use. At that time I didn't realize it - I had 0 experience, and from what I found on the Internet (at that time) I didn't get sufficient answers not to go with the Mu P24. It's true I was biased towards the Dahon because of the price, but I'm certain if an experienced cyclist/salesman would explain to me the weaknesses/strengths I would go for the substantially more expensive BF.
There are some already-mentioned weird features of Dahons that would be cheap to fix and the company has ignored them; there is no excuse for that. Zero, zip, regardless of being a fan of Dahon or not. Of course, no machine can be perfect, but I've come to understand that when a machine has some head-scratching stupid feature (e.g. the short kickstand on Dahons) that defies common sense, this lack of common-senseness continues through either the rest of the design or the company's attitude. It must be so, because if the company would think clearly, they would simply extend the kickstand by an inch or so and it would be done (there are enough references to this stupid short kickstand design on the Internet).
I truly enjoy riding the bike when it works smoothly, and really dig its looks. At the same time it's given me too many issues for a new bike.
Yes, Dahon outsells every other folding bike manufacturer. It would be interesting to know how those users use their Dahons. Years ago Hyundai started selling Pony in Canada. They sold tons of them, because they had relatively good features for quite cheap, yet in the end they proved to be unreliable cars. So just selling something in the millions doesn't mean much. What counts is what the users think about the product after some time of use; do they come back to buy another one, or do they say "no thanks, I'll go for something of better quality". Dahon cannot be expected to stuff an 800-dollar bike with top parts, but they should improve stupid design and stand behind their product with great customer care (which I haven't experienced, yet. I emailed them three times before with no answers to my last two emails, plus the lack of offer to replace/fix the poorly designed air pump seatpost just after I purchased the bike. Instead I had to use a tape to keep the plastic cap from shaking loose...on a new 800-dollar bike!!)

I add my experience with a 2008 MuP8 and Speed P8, both purchased online.

As far as creaking/squeaking is concerned, I had no problems with the Speed. The MU started squeaking after about 2 years. Once I figured out how to tighten the hinge, no more squeaks. I will say that I found there to be a fine line between too tight (difficult to fold and unfold) and too loose (squeaks)

My only real complaint about both bikes is the need loosen the handle post/stem to fold them. I never know where to set it and find that I almost have to remove the post completely in order to get a complete fold. Fortunately I use them mainly for travel and touring. I wouldn't want to have fold and unfold it every day.

I do feel that I have given an accurate description of my experiences with Dahon. It is not a hate fest, after all I did choose to buy the Dahon MU SL after test riding Airnimal Joey, Pashley Moulton TSR, R+M Birdy Speed, Dahon P8, Dahon jack and 3 Bromptons.

I wear size 9 / 43 Cat boots and have never had a single heel strike on my Brompton. The brakes work just as good as anything else I have owned or ridden and I have never had any problem stopping quickly.

I test rode a S-type lightweight Brompton at a dealers and spent time talking to the Staff at the store. They sold a number of different brands of folders but the Brompton was the bike that all the Staff used for running around town on. The dealer told me that the Brompton was the best all rounder and was a high quality handmade bike. I went for the Dahon MU SL because it was slightly lighter and had a wider gear range.... but most of all I really liked those Kinetix Pro wheels.

If I knew then what I know now then I would have gone straight for the Brompton from the outset. The longer I own the Brompton the more I appreciate what a good design it is...... oh and should I need any parts they are readily available at very reasonable cost.

One surprise I found switching from the MU SL Dahon with 9 speeds to the Brompton S-Type with just just 2 speeds was that the time taken to ride the 4 miles from the railway station was virtually the same with no more than 1- 2 min variance between the two bikes.

I should make clear that, since identifying and taking care of the creeky hinge problem, I have been very happy with the Curve SL. It has been my regular good weather commuter, and have used it on several longish 50km rides in the hilly countryside. I wouldn`t trade it for a Brompton, but perhaps I would for a Tikit, but only if that flexy handlepost problem was taken care of. For the price, I believe it to be an excellent deal.

I get the feeling that there is a certain learning curve involved with owning a Dahon. The problems are usually just irritating, such as squeeks or creeks, or a too short kickstand, but not major. Once you become familiar with Dahons, you know where, when and how to quickly resolve a problem and how to prevent them in the first place.

It would certainly be in Dahon`s best interest to make information available to new folding bike customers (and to the dealers of course) on where to look, and how to take care of these problems and prevent them from recurring. Wouldn`t it be better to say, with a folding bike creeking or squeeking can be expected and this is how you take care of it - rather than having frustrated customers returning bikes because of mystery noises that are often completely fixable?

hi,

with your ergon bar end on your curve sl, can you still roll it when folded ?

Sure, no problem - you need to loosen the hex nuts and rotate the grips first. Looks like this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/...04a67abf_b.jpg

Usually, I ride with the hex nuts just tight enough so that the bar ends don`t move when riding, but can be rotated without loosening the nuts anymore for folding. If I will be climbing hills or riding hard, I tighten the hex nuts so the bars can`t move.

As a former Dahon owner of 2 models-2003 Boardwalk S1 & 2006 Piccolo-I understand most, if not all of the problems addressed here. Not only I used them for the several years I had them, I documented my experiences of whatever occurred with these bikes on my Website series, World Of Folding Bicycles (links below). I now only have the 2 bikes that seemed to work best for me & my own needs, 2005 Brompton CE3 & 1972 Raleigh Twenty.

The question I often asked of myself is...Would I buy another Dahon? The answer is....probably not as I might have to ride a bike to the hospital during the early morning hours. I need a bike that does not creak or force to buy one every couple of years because of proprietary parts issues that surrounded even my own former Dahons of different model years. The price of a new Dahon is now very close to the higher end bikes I have found to be far more comfortable with building trust.

Catching those pesky mechanical bugs unfortunately lies with all those poor, overworked dealers!

I don't see this and other threads as an excuse of a "hate fest" as describe above. I simply see it as some noting of serious problems that mar the what should be a true positive Dahon Experience, not a choice between models or manufacturers.

Perhaps this is the crux of the problem here-"....500 times as many bikes as everybody else...." How can anyone, anywhere practice any type of "Quality Control" with such a high volume? I have seen this within my own industry with all the shoddy third world imported clothing & fabric manufacturing that crossed my path for the past 30 years or so. Before that, the fabric & clothes often came with a small label stating that the product was checked over by a particular traceable individual at the factory before it was shipped out beside the country of origin. Why not in the bicycle world, also?

As I said before in this and other places around the World Wide Web-not a preference, but now a simple reality. Just be sure to check the label or the box for known quality and product care.

Learning curve? I would agree except it become rather old very quickly if you constantly having to fuss with the bike beyond basic maintenance. I don't have to fuss around my present bikes much as they seem to be fine the way they are right now this minute. The 2 Dahons?....that is another matter that does not haunt me anymore as they are no longer part of my world-although they were the best education in what was the best type of bicycle-putting aside brands for a minute-for a high crime, high traffic area where I live. I might have kept them if I was just a recreational occaisional rider out for a stroll-in-the-park. My habits and needs dictate otherwise.

I've had 3 Dahons in as many years. #1 was a Dahon Boardwalk S1--had for 6 months and it was Stolen. It was purchased Used and I didn't have moment's trouble with it. Dahon #2 was a New Mu-Uno. Had this Dahon a little over a year and sold it to buy my present Dahon. The Mu Uno was a commuter's dream, I used this on our Trains/buses a lot, unfolding it 3-4 times daily, not so much as a Flat. I really miss it and will one day buy another. Dahon #3 (present) is a used Speed, a 2006 model. It had less then 50 miles on it and I bought it for $400. It was as Brand New liteally. I hate those custom Tires (mango/black stelvios 1.125x20). They look nice but are flat prone when I up the pressure. I had 2 bad rim strips(Fr/Rr), both of which were replaced. Soon the tires are to be replaced, which should alleviate the Flat Problem (like 5 in 500 miles) of street riding. The old owner wasn't aware of the fact the Bike was a 24 speed with the SRAM Dual Drive as the Bike was missing the all important, albeit tiny, Shift Pin. It only shifted as an 8 speed but I said nothing at the point of sale (knowing this was a $2 fix) since I already had negotiated the Bike Price from $500 down to $400 for what was essentially a New Bike. I purchased 2 shift pins and installed it (one is a spare) and it has worked like a swiss clock from that day forward. So far so good, I love the Bike but due to the cables, it doesn't fold as nice as my Mu-Uno(not un-expected though). The Mu Uno wheeled-- folded-- like a dream though the train station. Great Bike. My Next Dahon will be a Speed TR, hopefully to be purchased from Thor. As far as reliability, look at another Post here by JAOCAMPO, who recently Took a Mu on tour through Argentina, paraguay, Uraguay and Brazil. That's a fairly good torture test as the roads down there aren't exactly aren't model highways. A recent Poster on CrazyGuysonaBike.com took his Friday NWT on a trip through the Americas(Colombia to argentina approx) and the Bottom Bracket housing actually split and the whole frame had to be replaced via air express, I think in Peru, halfway thru his Tour. So issues can arise from the BFs also. So far for the Money, I'm satisfied with the Dahons,,,

I think my Dahon Mu P24 is from 2009, it's ok. Mine had the handle bar issue that Jur mentioned, other than that no major problems. No problems with it's dual drive.

'Think this is a good thread for comments, as those that won't ever go back will surface, and those that want to standup for a brand will also. Fact that this is a folding bike forum shows there is dedication on wanting to research a product well, which probably doesn't apply to the 90p of people buying those huge number of dahons.

'Purchased 2 Jacks ~2 years and had the same creaking hinge problems, impossible to fix as apparently I "damaged" them (words from dahon's rick fair) by not maintaining proper torque at the hinge. 'Am still angry about this - as this is not an easy thing to maintain (tell me how to properly torque this within their specs), and I won't be slave to a LBS charging €50 / tuneup to maintain a warranty. One was "DOA" - almost not ridden, making creaking noises after shipped from special price from UK. Other returned to mfctr whose return policy covered what Dahon probably wouldn't. The second was ridden probably 1000 kms and developed the creak. Loved the idea of jack, function over form, but...

What I think this means is this - I don't think the "90%" (of the xxxx qty annually produced) use the Dahon's they buy in a way that exacerbate some of these inherent (IMO) problems. I think (please help in citation here) they are used as cute bikes that fold, with neat features, at a good price. For that reason their demographic is not the demanding and scrutinous group that Thor mentions (BF owners that know how to do preventive maintenance).

My advice : don't buy something above a certain price point from Dahon, if you're planning on using this a lot or as your only bike. If you're willing to spend $400 + , you're willing to make an investment. Put this into a bike whose model isn't changing significantly every year to overcome shortcomings and get something that will have a good warranty. The Brompton / BF contingent is good testament to their durability and longenvity potential.

On the other hand, have several cheap dahon folders from China and am quite happy with them. But I bought these knowing that if they're stolen that won't bother me much, and also low specs and very low price (< €100). Again weighed cost versus expectations.

JimBeans83, yeah, it's very possible that the majority of Dahon owners use the bikes for only occasional rides or short rides, and that the more serious cyclists naturally gravitate towards BF and Brompton.

After 4, from the entry to the top(at the time), nope. Something's seriously wrong when you can't get replacement parts for a two year old top-of-the-line product direct from the manufacturer, nor from just about any dealer.

As far as the 'they sell the most, so they must be good' argument goes, I haven't eaten at McDonalds(or any other fast junk joint) in thirty years. Have no problem paying more for quality, or making the effort to get something decent at the same relative price point.

My issues in regards to the hinges was that they started to wear to the point that with the bike ready to ride you could put your hand under the frame and actually feel the play and see the saddle and handlebars move away from each other while you lifted. I kept the hinge clamp adjusted correctly. Although I did not notice the wear at first, after 5 months of commuting (riding 1 1/2 miles each day combined with the train) it was very obvious once spotted. Once I received the second replacement bike I kept a look out for this problem and sure enough it was apparent after a few months riding. :(

I weigh 160lbs, well within the limit of the bike and no heavy bags.

Oh, one other little issue.... the frame hinge clamp had a little black safety catch. I got to work one morning and went to fold the bike and this little catch fell on the floor. Apparently somewhere on the way from the train station the bolt had fallen out. fortunately I was able to find a temporary bolt at work... not the right one but it would do. I contacted a Dahon dealer and ordered a new special shaped bolt.... that was 2008 and I'm still waiting :rolleyes: By contrast, I bought my Dad a new custom Brompton and the little frame hook fell off (turned out that the factory had fitted the wrong length bolt that proved to be too short).... again I fitted a temporary replacement... and then ordered a new hook and bolt from SJS and it arrived the next day.:thumb:

A quality bike should not need frequent tweaking and adjustments to keep it in a safe, ridable condition..... I've been using my Brompton for two years now. Just changed the tyres and brake pads and apart from cleaning the bike and lubing the chain that is all I have needed to do. The bike still looks like new, rides great and there are none of the typical Dahon rattles or creaking noises.

As CrimsonEclipse said, I also will not purchase a new Dahon even though I find the bike to be ok, ok is not what I'll be looking for in
my next folder. Customer service was less than ideal when I had to change it's handle bar stem.

then you also have the outright silly people like me that want to look like a clown and ride a strida 5. Somehow as silly as this bike is, the only major problem I really had was running over glass with my poor kojaks :(. ordered some thicker tires from a strida site in Hong Kong (innova branded tires). It's probably the triangular shape of the bike why I never had a hinge problem or seatpost/handlebar flex. I was looking at the mu uno (single speed/simplicity) but i'm right now comparing, will this be the same as little maintenance as my strida? going to try one out on the weekend cause it's going to be a commuter with daily folding and unfolding.

This is supposed to instill confidence?... I dunno.

I was just being fair and pointed out that we did have one small issue with one out of four Bromptons...... the point I was trying to make was that I was able to get a replacement bolt and a spare hook sent to me the next day...... whereas the safety catch bolt for the MU SL never did materialise.....

Brompton has a fantastic parts back-up service even for the much older bikes through a good network of dealers. Dahon, a much bigger company can't be bothered about customers with bikes more than a couple of years old........I know technology is fast paced, but I'm sure most people buying a new bike expect to get more than a few years use out of it. if it was not for Thor and his dedication to the brand, even more Dahons would be obsolete + disposable within a very short time.

Azreal911, Strida bikes look like fun nutty bikes, but they are not practical for serious use (at least not for mine). I need to be able to haul some stuff, including
groceries, and I'm not willing to carry a heavy backpack, so I use front and rear racks.
I've been in situations where a metal tube right in front of my groin is not a good thing. Strida bikes have a hinge, too. I would guess the ride must be very stiff.

true it's not for you to do like 200km+ rides and there's no way it can hold the same luggage some of those bike fridays and bromptons with their racks can hold. It mainly excels at getting to work and back though. The rear rack can only hold so much cause it's tiny. As for the groin in tube thing, never had that happen it's more of a misconception unless your bike saddle has zero friction and you aren't holding your handlebars or foot on pedals then you might smash the jibblies if you hit a curb.

The hinges are all on the points of the triangle though which makes it very stiff, there's no flex at all between you and the steering (strida 5 version). a sprung seat is the best upgrade you can do cause I can easily do 60km on it with that change compared to 3km before.

my next bike would be tough cause it would be down to a tikit or brommie. And I'll be riding the crap out of it like my strida (almost 5000km's in two years) so I really need something that will last for years.

Dang I also noticed you are a townie too! we should try join those bicycle network rides with folders and try to keep up!

I admire now much you use your Strida. It's good to know that you can get the comfort dialed in for 60 km rides.

However, size of the rider must be a consideration. I don't think there's anyway I can get 60 km on my Strida. I can't extend my leg fully (I'm 6'0" tall), so my knees would probably suffer at that kind of saddle time. I use mine for 5 miles or less. Longer multi-modal rides get assigned to the Brompton.