Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Trouble Brewing In Folding Bicycle Paradise?

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Trouble Brewing In Folding Bicycle Paradise?

Old 07-21-11, 05:57 PM
  #1  
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
folder fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anti Social Media-Land
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Trouble Brewing In Folding Bicycle Paradise?

https://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/dahon-v-tern-it-s-now-a-lawsuit/011550

Of Great Interest To The UK
https://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/zyro-drops-dahon-and-biologic-lines/011373

Well, well, well, things are certainly getting interesting in folding bike land. Here I thought that the Dahon and Tern split was an amicable one. I guess there is no such a thing just like an amicable divorce is supposed to be. What is the next step going to be? Mud slinging techniques demonstrations in court?

Last edited by folder fanatic; 07-21-11 at 06:00 PM.
folder fanatic is offline  
Old 07-21-11, 06:51 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,097

Bikes: Too many....................

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 5 Posts
I wonder if this will cause problems for Dahon dealers who want to carry Tern?
__________________
Speed Uno
Dawes Kingpin 2speed
Dynocoaster is offline  
Old 07-21-11, 06:57 PM
  #3  
CSG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Idaho
Posts: 237

Bikes: 2002 Novara Ponderosa HT MTB 2011, Brompton M6L

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 5 Posts
It's like the American Chopper story. The thing is, it may very like hurt both brands with shoppers looking for more stability in their folding bike company.
CSG is offline  
Old 07-21-11, 07:14 PM
  #4  
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
folder fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anti Social Media-Land
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by CSG
It's like the American Chopper story. The thing is, it may very like hurt both brands with shoppers looking for more stability in their folding bike company.
I am sure that an agreement will come. After all, this is a family first.
folder fanatic is offline  
Old 07-22-11, 04:25 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Folding-Bikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: London
Posts: 303

Bikes: Pacific-Reach SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
This is very sad..
Folding-Bikes is offline  
Old 07-22-11, 07:24 AM
  #6  
New usename ThorUSA
 
brakemeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Southern Illinois USA
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would rather have their 100 % energy channeled into building the best bikes instead of me/you paying for lawyers.
__________________
www.thorusa.com
Dahon : Freedom Unfolds
Tern : all about the ride
brakemeister is offline  
Old 07-22-11, 09:01 AM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
kamtsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
"Dr Hon is seeking a restraining order on the company founded by his son and estranged wife."

So it is a split in the family after all. It is sad that the son picked a side.


Edit: the case documents are available here https://vyew.com/room#/502951/Dahon_vs_Tern

Last edited by kamtsa; 07-22-11 at 09:25 AM.
kamtsa is offline  
Old 07-22-11, 09:59 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto, ON area
Posts: 72

Bikes: 2010 Globe Live 2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I read the court documents yesterday and it bummed me out all day.

It's unfortunate, because my impression is the son wants to do right for the cyclist and his entire team is with him. I was never so excited about owning a folder before; I hope things work out and I can buy a Tern soon.
dchsueh is offline  
Old 07-22-11, 10:29 AM
  #9  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,477

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1599 Post(s)
Liked 1,710 Times in 996 Posts
"In addition, since Joshua Hon and Florence Hon started competing with Dahon while officers and employees of Dahon, they have acted in breach of their fiduciary duties owed to Dahon and to Dahon’s shareholders."

I actually wondered about this, since Josh was still claiming to be a Dahon employee in June 2011 but has made public statements that he had been working on the company that became Tern since late summer 2010.

Last edited by tcs; 07-23-11 at 08:30 PM.
tcs is online now  
Old 07-22-11, 11:48 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Foldable Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver, Washington and Ocean Shores, Washington, USA
Posts: 1,319

Bikes: 2 - 2007 Custom Bike Fridays, 2 - 2009 Bike Friday Pocket 8's, Gravity 29'er SS, 2 - 8-spd Windsor City Bikes, 1973 Raleigh 20 & a 1964 Schwinn Tiger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sounds like a story for "Access Hollywood", the entertainment industry gossip program on U.S. TV.

Lou
Foldable Two is offline  
Old 07-27-11, 01:09 AM
  #11  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I do not necessarily think it is a family deal, but simply its better press if the media portrays it that way. From a Dahon standpoint, you can't tell me that this wasn't a decision made by a bunch of board of directors, officers, investors, etc. who were all concerned about the well-being of their product and intellectual property. I highly doubt that this was a decision made by one man to exact revenge or some similar notion. It seems like business to me. Its unfortunate because all the articles are probably just making it worse.
FoldedFan is offline  
Old 07-27-11, 09:44 AM
  #12  
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
folder fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anti Social Media-Land
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by FoldedFan
I do not necessarily think it is a family deal, but simply its better press if the media portrays it that way. From a Dahon standpoint, you can't tell me that this wasn't a decision made by a bunch of board of directors, officers, investors, etc. who were all concerned about the well-being of their product and intellectual property. I highly doubt that this was a decision made by one man to exact revenge or some similar notion. It seems like business to me. Its unfortunate because all the articles are probably just making it worse.
Welcome FoldedFan,

Too bad you signed up when things are not so pretty right now in Folding Bike World. To tell you the truth, there is no way to know the truth right now. The case is in it's early stage and anything can happen-including a miracle or two. Whatever happens, I do hope that the case is settled quickly as it could cripple or even destroy even a large corporation as Dahon is and postpone or even prevent the launching of a promising young company as Tern will be.
folder fanatic is offline  
Old 07-27-11, 11:06 AM
  #13  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,352 Times in 859 Posts
Spectator with a Brompton and a Bike Friday..

Lawyers get something else to do..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 07-27-11, 12:13 PM
  #14  
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
folder fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anti Social Media-Land
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob
Spectator with a Brompton and a Bike Friday..

Lawyers get something else to do..
I did propose already a "wait & see" approach for everyone-present & future Dahon owners, future Tern owners, and included also is the rest of the folding bike world. Whatever happens will have a major repercussion echoing in this niche market for a very, very long time (and I don't need tarot cards, a crystal ball, palm reading, or being psychic to know this). And Bike Friday & Brompton are not completely exempt from the fallout either.

Last edited by folder fanatic; 07-28-11 at 08:57 AM.
folder fanatic is offline  
Old 07-27-11, 07:27 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Foldable Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver, Washington and Ocean Shores, Washington, USA
Posts: 1,319

Bikes: 2 - 2007 Custom Bike Fridays, 2 - 2009 Bike Friday Pocket 8's, Gravity 29'er SS, 2 - 8-spd Windsor City Bikes, 1973 Raleigh 20 & a 1964 Schwinn Tiger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by folder fanatic
And Bike Friday & Brompton are not completely exempt from the fallout either.
...What type of "Fallout" are you envisioning?

Lou
Foldable Two is offline  
Old 07-28-11, 04:44 AM
  #16  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"Fallout" seems very apocalyptic for these companies. It seems like even when this is all settled, they are in different markets with different target audiences? I think if Dahon were to win than perhaps yes Tern would hit a major setback. Brompton and Bike Friday would be competing with the same old Dahon however...
FoldedFan is offline  
Old 07-28-11, 09:42 AM
  #17  
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
folder fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Anti Social Media-Land
Posts: 3,078
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Foldable Two
...What type of "Fallout" are you envisioning?

Lou
Anything and everything is possible. I will focus here just on the probable. Look at the developments that Dahon did during it's 30 year run up to now.

Frame Development & Patents: https://www.dahon.com/technology/frame

Component Development & Patents: https://www.dahon.com/technology/component

Sonus Tubing: https://www.dahon.com/frame-materials

Plus Their "Re-inventing the Wheel" Foundation Design Philosophy:
https://www.dahon.com/design-philosophies

These developments were created over the years that Dahon was in existence. Many of these really good ideas have found their way into theirs and later in other makes basically in the forms of telescoping stems and long adjustable seatposts which can deliver a perfect custom fit for riders of all sizes. Bike Friday's new folding stem, along with Brompton and any other modern folding bike company that mimics the fold down stem & long seatpost vs. just completely separating parts (just look at most older folding bikes from the 70s and earlier) enjoys what Dahon developed for the modern folder.

The most troubling thing I foresee for all lawsuit parties is....the wearing down or breakdown of one or both corporations and worse, possible millions of dollars down the toilet fighting over control over these listed above practices & patents. Not to mention the 70 or so creative team members that defected over to Tern. They stand to lose the most if the courts don't allow Tern to continue operation-I don't think they would be welcomed back with open arms. Dahon might continue somewhat because they have been established the longest. But they won't be come out unscathed. They will suffer to a greater or lesser degree depending on many factors which is coming into play now.

The greatest losers of all will be the Hon family. Their family is chopped into 2 warring sides on a personal and professional front. On a personal front I will not comment beyond if a divorce is taking place and filed in California, Mr. Hon stands to lose 50 percent of his personal assets. Mrs. Hon could probably show just cause of helping to build the business, and assuming that if she done so, supported the family during the early years of Dahon before it took off. That means she can rightfully demand her fair share. Josh Hon loses too in his potential inheritance shares when he left the fold.

I am hoping for a miracle or two and perhaps a reemerging of the Hon family on all fronts as a more stronger family of bicyclists-and Tern to be a important and unique division of Dahon with it's own identity kept strictly intact. I don't know if I am asking for too much though.

There will be no "winners"-of that I am sure of.

Originally Posted by FoldedFan
"Fallout" seems very apocalyptic for these companies. It seems like even when this is all settled, they are in different markets with different target audiences? I think if Dahon were to win than perhaps yes Tern would hit a major setback. Brompton and Bike Friday would be competing with the same old Dahon however...
There is no way of knowing how this will play out, especially if a jury is involved. All members of the folding bike niche will suffer to a greater or lesser extent. As I stated before, Dahon is the largest supplier of folding bikes in the world. People come to know folding bikes (like I had) through their products. They might buy up into an higher end bikes-Brompton as I have, Bike Friday, Swift, etc. But they need to be introduced into the world of folding bike first inexpensively in order for interest to be encouraged and supported during the critical "introductory" phase that new blood like you are at present is recruited. No new members simply means a dying group, no matter what it is.

Last edited by folder fanatic; 07-28-11 at 03:09 PM.
folder fanatic is offline  
Old 07-28-11, 10:27 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
kamtsa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Foldable Two
...What type of "Fallout" are you envisioning? Lou
Asteroids and nuclear war for a start.

Seriously, the void will get filled. Companies go up and down all the time. There is no shortage of folding bike models in the world.
kamtsa is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
niania
Folding Bikes
26
04-19-18 06:40 PM
lulubell
Folding Bikes
4
09-07-17 05:16 AM
nad12
Folding Bikes
5
03-25-17 01:25 AM
Crankykentucky
Folding Bikes
12
06-28-14 03:13 PM
bjorke
Folding Bikes
8
07-23-11 05:12 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.