As The World Turns on The Edge of Night, The Young and the Restless look for a Guiding Light in the Dark Shadows. So go the Days of Our Lives.

You can read the position of the other side here http://vyew.com/room#/502951/Dahon_vs_Tern

This case is not about folding bike quality control, it's about who has rights to what assets and the duties of corporate officers.

Edit: here is an interesting snippet from one of the exhibits. Josh discusses how to trick dealers to think they get larger discount then they actually do.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=211920

Edit: one of the exhibits mentions this Dahon arm http://www.ecosmo-bike.com/ , their web site lists tons of folding bikes models.

True, the family's personal affairs are no one else' business. But the business' side of their affairs, that is another matter entirely. I am sure dealers, suppliers, along with present & potential future customers are very concerned about what direction or even the existence of Dahon & Tern will be. After all, they already have or will invested a sizable amount of money into the Dahon product or even the Tern one. Dealers have to invest (or order) the new bikes months before they arrive on their floors. That long gap between their actually placing orders and seeing their own profits make them especially vulnerable to this unfortunate lawsuit. Suppliers (and sub contractors) must know at precise and regular intervals what the companies orders from them-then pay them or risk losing creditworthiness or even more lawsuits.

If the Dahon forum's current state of somewhat neglect is any indication of what is really going on there behind the scenes, I would be concerned-no matter which party I belong to. I am not advocating hitting the Panic Button, but I would advise to have a calmer wait-and-see attitude approach, rather than lapse into pure panic mode. Perhaps that miracle I am praying for might just happen yet! And we will have both Dahon & Tern offered together in some new positive form(s)-as I hope the family itself will come together also.


Always the winners in other's downfalls and misery. No matter which side they are representing.

This is not a sports game or a movie for our entertainment! It's a break-up of years of hard work together going fast down the toilet.

Let the legaleze be cleared up somehow..... I really dont care about any lawsuit ..... I am sure in most cases any kind of lawsuit could be resolved with decent communication between the parties.


I do care about my friends here on the forum.
Dont write something you might eat crow later.
I would be careful who to blame for exactly what ?

I think that everybody who works with their parents ( father) in the same business for 20 years has my fullest sympathy.
How for example would anybody of you feel if your efforts in building the company are continously taken for granted and really never appreciated. If your vision for the future is stiffled.
I can guarantee that 99 % of all the folks who are easy to spread the blame here would not be willing to do half the sacrify to keep working along for even a day.

I am not talking Dahon specific here, I am working with my parents ( and my wife ) since 30 years .... believe me that I know what I am talking about....

Was I at any stage wanting to drop everything and start over on my own ..... absolutely .... more than once.... would it be considered fraud ? I sure dont think so ....
its not fraud if you quit and work somewhere else ? Why all of the sudden do we have seperate standards ?


thor

Canadian Thanksgiving predates the American version. :-)

Thor, I don't know if you haven't quite followed all this or what, but Dahon's claim is that Tern personnel did not "drop everything and start over on their on", but in fact started a competing business while continuing to be employed by, work for and have duties to their employer, using fiscal assets and intellectual property rightfully owned by their employer, contrary to the laws under which the company was incorporated and accepted investor moneys. IF that's true, then yeah, they were defrauding their employer.

Dahon has further asked for a jury trial so they may have the opportunity to prove their contentions and seek redress.

lol
tcs you sound like a lawyer ( I guess nothing wrong with that ...lol )
you need to try to understand the meaning what I am trying to say.. ..i dont talk legaleze ...
I am talking about MY experiences not Dahons .... I just dont know enough about what belongs to whom and why and where.....
there might be easy to understand reasons for the split..... that now layers are involved is unfortunate ....

semantics and lawyers dont built good bikes ..... hard work does ...

thor

More information from the exhibits

Alleged email from Josh telling a Teritory Manager in Dahon North America about the situation in the Dahon Factory (March 2011)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=211998

David Hon email address at Dahon.com was shut off.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=211999

And you sounded like some one spinning damage control PR for Tern.

As they say, follow the money.

tcs you seem to be an angry person ....
did I hit a nerve or what ?... are you trying to "dig" up dirty stuff ?
Whats your agenda ?
I dont make a big secret that I sell Dahons and I will sell Terns and Dahons in the future ... whats your involvement ?

What money are you refering too... did I miss a check in the mail from somebody ?
Pretty big allegations here my friend, I would be carefull with stuff like that..... those vulchers are circling the bike forums ....

I dont do damage control for anybody ..... what I dont like is the onesided "tude" from a couple of posters here, making aquisations, which just might be totally wrong.

I guess I have to say allegededly or silly stuff like that with all the Laywers around who are looking to proove something .... not even knowing what to proove ...just something dirty ..please give me a break... this is a forum about folding bikes... not lawsuits

thor
real name.. whats yours ?

Thor, the current mess was created by the Hon family, not by forum members or lawyers. Also, considering that Dahon is the market leader in folding bikes, I think discussing it does belong here.

Just saying.

Regardless, I appreciate your help over the years with Dahon issues.

no points to be made here, it's hardly a court!

tcs, thor/brakemeister is a good guy who is a dealer, not some sort of conspirator.

As an outside observer...

I wouldn't be interested in buying either bike until the dust settles and smoke clears.

Anybody remember Kodak Instant Cameras vs Polaroid? In most people's opinion Kodak had a better product, Polaroid won with a cease and desist. I wonder how much money they could have made if they had licensed their patent to Kodak, rather than hold out for the cease and desist. Of course it would be a relative moot point now that digital has effectively cornered the market.

Aaron :)

This dispute between Dahon and Tern prima facie seems to be going well for Dahon but *please* realize we have only seen and discussed the legal position of the plaintiff at this time. (Did anybody notice that? Really? Wow!)

I'm sure the plaintiff has put forth their best legal argument. At this time, we have not viewed any legal reply from the defendant, who I am sure will also put forth their best argument as well.

Judge what you want. I'm waiting for the full story.

Discussion is merited here just as long as it does not drop down into mud slinging and pseudo facts.

Anyone's character is not up for assassination here. While we here are not a court of law, we still must make hard decisions on where to spend our hard earn money-and dealers more so than anyone else here.

Another proposing a "wait & see" approach. A wise choice to be sure.

To get the "full story" will be one hell of a wait. That might take years, not weeks or months. Then again, the case might be settled out of court and the goings on not made public anyway.

Whoops: US federal judge denies Dr David Hon's request for Tern to quit
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/us-...to-quit/011621

Seems like this is as much a family dispute as it a business one; otherwise, why wouldn't the folks at Tern and Dahon use lawyers in the best possible way--to come up w/ a win-win and base-covering licensing agreement for patented technologies of Dahon frame design or whatever else Tern may be using in violation. (I'm in favor of mechanical patents as opposed to software patents since any program can be reduced to a mathematical equivalence.). I imagine Tern would be violating such patents given the striking resemblance of more finely-crafted Dahon models. I haven't looked at the legal aspects, but I haven't heard of any patent concerns, or is Tern OK on this front?

Dahon is made up of three somewhat connected companies, one of which (Dahon Global) is 100% controlled by Josh and Florence (the new owners of Tern). According to them, Dahon Global owns most of the patents used by Dahon, including the vast majority of the patents issued in the last five years. J & F will allow Tern to use these patents and will not permit Dahon China to use the patents; Tern apparently will not use any patents owned by Dahon China.

There doesn't really seem to be a dispute that Dahon Global owns the patents, but there is a claim that Josh and Florence unlawfully transferred the patents from Dahon China or Dahon N. Amer. to Dahon Global. (The basis for the "unlawful" claim (and a couple of other claims) is that while Josh and Florence were corporate officers of another Dahon company - and thus were required to have the best interests of that company's shareholders in mind - they transferred patents from that company to Dahon Global, intending to compete with the other Dahon companies (and thus harm the shareholders they are legally obligated to protect)). This is only a claim, though - I have no idea whether it is correct.

I am not sure that Dahon agrees with this assertion. See below a quote from the complaint.

It will be interesting to read the defendants response.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=213229

Tern has Dahon bikes removed from Eurobike industry show by court order here.

It reminds me a bit of the split between Adi and Rudolf Dassler (Adidas & Puma).

It's sad but these things happen and let's hope the folding bike sector ends up winning, not the fat-cat lawyers!

What have I been missing lol? And if the normally cool Thor has some views on the matter when he actually knows and deals some of the characters involved in the saga, it's very interesting to hear.

I am so sad to hear about this. I am doubly sad for Dr. Hon, I have dealt with Josh previously, I found him to be less than proper each time. It must be heartbreaking for a father to have this happen ( from their child )

Careful Yan .... there is MUCH more involved here..... there was a split between Dahon USA and you .... and than Mr David Hon built bikes for you.... that is all fine and dandy .... but has little to do with the attributes of people involved. The split is a sad thing indeed ..for all involved, but without knowing all the facts , you shouldnt really take sides, and make Josh look like the only one to fault. Or talk bad about the competion .... right ?

thor

No thanks

It is so nice that I no longer have to concern about the too large fighting manufacturers-and anyone else in their supply chain-of folding and/or separating bikes anymore. I need not take sides or worry about watching my opinions, or even better yet, sink into mudslinging. My simple old fashioned 2 stitch sewing machine has truly liberated me; first from department store's overly inflated marked ups on unappealing clothes prices along with their shoddy construction, now recently gaining the ability to make most any (older or new) folding/separating bike into a nice locked together compact package quickly in about an hour's time, using easy-to-do methods, and very inexpensively, thereby avoiding, or worse force yet again, into buying any more shoddy third world made bikes (not any one bike manufacturer is being singled out here-just like clothing and anything else flooding the first world's sea ports & airports with their, er, "products"). Sadly, this particular forum has really been flooded the same way the past several months or so.

And another push for me to be more independent:
"......The Dahon v Tern lawsuit is likely to a long one....."-http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/us-federal-judge-denies-dr-david-hon-s-request-for-tern-to-quit/011621 I don't think that my well being and compact cycling needs can be looked after with that much of a time frame.

And this is supposed to be a "New Era" with that sort of double meaning? Photo from: http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/dahon-unfolds-into-new-era/011817