Jiten

Ah, well, good luck to Dahon and Tern and their dealers. I don't think I would have bought my P8 at the new price. I think it would be really nice if small-wheeled folders became more popular and more widely used. I'm afraid these prices will not help. The good news is that there still seem to be a handful of sub-$500 Dahon/Tern folders that will be available, albeit low-end ones which will probably still be a hard sell. There is probably a price point at which a folder loses its appeal to the general consumer with a limited discretionary budget in comparison to a non-folding bike.

CSG

Actually, no Brompton does not "enter well above $1000". They currently start at $1050 in the States.

Jyyanks

Wow - I just lucked out. I happened to go to my LBS over the weekend and they were having their annual Bike Clearance for 2 days only. I picked up a Dahon Jack and a Dahon P8 for $1232 total (inc tax) with free lifetime tune ups for one of the bikes and free tune ups for 3 years on the other.
The Speed P8 was full price (not on sale) but the Jack was 20% off but seeing the prices that were just posted, I feel like I got a bargain!

pacificcyclist

For a single speed I think.

pacificcyclist

Folder has the appeal because that for the most part, they are going to be the 2nd bike or third. While most people already own a full sized bike, these people do not own folders. Folders offer portability, an option not available on full sized bikes! Paying full price? There does not seem to be a problem for people buying iPads at full price when you can get a netbook or laptop for$ 299 or less. Why pay$ 499 for an inexpensive tablet with limited functionality?

pacificcyclist

Or put on a pair of Big Apples. My Mu SL seemed to ride faster with BA than the Stelvios. Plus, the ride is smoother

Jiten

Aha. We have different visions of the folder, and probably different visions of the consumer, too. Different people have different financial values, obviously. When you think of a consumer, I am probably at the edge of your sample. Oh yes, the folder will still have its appeal, but will they sell at the hiked prices or will they remain on the shelves? If people already have full-sized bikes, as you say, will these people still consider a folder for a second or third bike at the new prices when there are so many good, non-folding bikes at lower prices? The way it's going, the folder will remain a niche product, kinda like toys for those with boats. I never owned a folder until a few months ago. If I didn't buy then at the old price, I probably wouldn't own one now or in the future at the current price. For many years, I was convinced that I wanted a Bike Friday (they're my next-door neighbor). But even when I had the money to splurge on a New World Tourist , I just couldn't spend that much money on a bike. To use your analogy, I want a folder that's a laptop. I don't have an iPad, and I never bought into the whole Apple craze and, frankly, neither do I buy comparing folders to Apple products. (Oh wait, they're both luxury products, as it's turning out.) My laptop, old as it is, has been sufficient for me, and can do much more than an iPad, and it can travel pretty well, too. I don't need an iPad for a second computer thingy or whatever it is. A good bike, be it folding or full size, will be able to do the job if someone is pedalling. If the folding aspect is not a make or break deal for someone buying a bike, then the folder loses at these prices.

Anyway, again, good luck to the dealers, especially Thor. I hope the new pricing scheme works out for you.

pacificcyclist

New pricing are a bit shell-shocked at first. That's not all that uncommon when Tri-bikes started becoming more expensive. You will be hard-pressed to find a very good quality Tri-bike for under $2000. There was a time when those bikes were very affordable like the Dahons. People spelled doom for the Tri industry when bikes became more of a luxury item. Well guess what, never stopped nor slowed things down either! People still want a Cervelo S5 or P whatever at any price even during this down economy. When gas was rising up, we complained. It is the same gas we used to pay decades ago, so why is it so expensive? Why aren't we complaining now? Because we got "USED" to the price. People will get used to these new prices. Life moves on. People simply will prioritize spending on what they cherish the most. The adoption of folding bikes were accelerated by a number of factors, namely to save some money and adopting a healthy lifestyle, the latter being more important it seems.
Do I like price increases? The answer is no, but this is becoming the norm with most other services like fuel surcharges that do not seem to go away!

jur

$1055 actually, and that is for the absolute basic one, single speed, no mudguards, nothing. That is still one heck of a long way higher than the Tern entry level bike which gives you 7 speeds. For even the most basic 2-speed we are well above $1k.

mulleady

Not the Curl though!

mulleady

Tricycles are even more niche than folders so will be more inelastic to the enthusiast. Folding bikes have also gone niche mainstream so they will be more price sensitive. You speak about the consumer behaviour of a minority of people who have either the budget or are willing to make a sacrifice for something they desire so strongly. Therefore, there is little or no substitution effect in those cases. I do agree there is a proportion who will sacrifice for a bike because of the long-term payback but even they are in the minority, most people think of the 'here and now'!

The main debate at hand is whether Joshua Hon will succeed positioning the Tern range from high to mid-end. If the bikes have exceptional design and good componentry, that may be possible.

Jiten

I'm actually a little baffled (I don't have any business sense, after all) why Dahon, if they had any choice at all, chose to follow Tern's pricing range and compete with Tern there exclusively, rather than keep some of their more popular and better-selling bikes (like the Speed series) at the lower price range, where they possibly would have had that piece of the market to themselves, since Tern does not seem to playing for that market.

mulleady

+1!

Diode100

The whole thing is a Dahon / Tern conspiricy to boost their prices across the board, there is no mum /dad /son conflict, its all a ploy, and Pacificcyclist is their on forum stooge.
(You read it here first !)

tcs

It's 17% more than a single speed Dahon Jifo, a 1.5kg lighter bike (if specs are to be believed) that folds to a comparable package.

jur

Yes, I wonder how the Curl would do. Not well is my guess.

mulleady

I'd say that's the equivalent in conspiracy theory to saying no plane crashed into the Pentagon in 2001! I detect irony in your theory anyway lol

chagzuki

I notice on the Tern site it states 'Kinetix rims by WTB', I hadn't realized before that WTB were involved in Dahon component manufacturing.

kamtsa

You assume that they are different and competing companies. We don't know yet what is the involvement of Dahon Taiwan (the owners of the Tern brand and www.dahon.com) in the marketing of Dahon branded bikes and the price list we saw.

brakemeister

you guys ...... lol
interesting read fer sure ....

thor

brakemeister

I keep trying to tell you

Dahon is Dahon
Tern is Tern

whats behind the curtain is of no consequence to us dealers or consumers. Those issues will be interesting to a couple lawyers but for heavens sake they are not involved in designing or building bikes.... Dahon bikes are built at the Dahon factory in China , Tern bikes are built in Taiwain, both companies have different assembly plants in Europe.... Tern is busy with their own bikes, they do not make or sell Dahon bikes

CSG

And the drama continues. Like I said, there's some pretty apparent shilling going on in this forum.

Frankly, I like owning a bike NOT made in China or Taiwan. Of course, their food is way better than what the Brits do...

Diode100

Sorry, can you please explain what you mean by "shilling" ?

CSG

There seem to be industry people here who are under the guise of just being members when they may, indeed, work for these two companies and are spinning things to make the situation look better.

A shill is someone who is a plant at an auction who artificially bids up the price for the seller. Happens both in real auctions and ebay. The term loosely fits what I've been seeing here recently. Thor, to his credit, hides nothing and is quite up front about his business and his business interests. I don't know who some of the other Dahon/Tern flacks are here but suspect they work for the companies or distributors and are not being up front about it.

I will state that I could be completely off-base and they're just fanboys but I've been doing the forum thing for a long time (I own a large guitar forum) and have seen this sort of thing in the past.

brakemeister

yeah I am wondering also ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

like that ?

indeed some posts would be interesting to check upon their IP addys....lol... there are some over enthusiastic sockpuppets out there in cyberland, not knowing that it is really easy to follow their breadcrumps to their respective offices.

I for one never make a secret for who I am ...
even sign with my real name ...
I try to only say what I would say into the face of the other person/party
and yes I am opinioated ( and sometimes wrong )

lol

thor