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Swift folders

Old 02-05-15, 09:40 PM
  #3426  
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Upgrades

Hi folks,

I've had my Swift for about 2.5 years now with moderate usage (~3500km, about 10% of my riding) and am looking to upgrade some parts. I have the second(?) generation Swift which is a bit heftier I believe, bought directly from Peter Reich.

1. First and foremost is the seat post - would any readily available/stock carbon 33.9mm diameter long seat post be okay with the folding mechanism? I use the bike more like a minivelo but I do fold it at least a few times a year. (My current stock post is cut < 500mm so I'm sure any length long post would be okay, they all seem to start from 580mm.) I am not planning to attach anything other than maybe a water bottle holder to the front of the post (no rack, bags, etc.). I am 65kgs if that's relevant. I am just afraid of cracking it either from clamping (maybe carbon paste would help?) or from sideways forces from the two frame pieces.

2. Fork! I would like to have a carbon fork (or something lighter and less harsh) too but have searched around this thread and can't find a definitive answer. Anyone have a quick answer for this one? I have a 406 wheels.

3. Less important: I don't use the drillings for the water bottle holder in the stem riser (water bottle always gets in the way when I'm out of the saddle) and I wouldn't mind a riser that matched the seat post. But otherwise I don't mind the existing one. What options are there for this?

I have contemplated selling this bike but started riding it regularly again this week and went the other way (again! I have considered upgrades before too but never got too far.)

Any tips/advice appreciated!

Last edited by idc; 02-05-15 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 02-05-15, 11:54 PM
  #3427  
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Seatpost: Pazzazz, bought from a Singapore shop, they have discontinued them;

Stem, Bacchetta recumbent curved riser

Fork is a carbon for 650C wheel

Bars, bullhorn with the small rising portion cut off. Bacchetta clamp was 25.4mm, bars are 26mm, used sandpaper around a suitably sized dowel to just ream it a small amount for the bigger bars.

That combination has served me a fair few years.
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Old 02-06-15, 06:17 AM
  #3428  
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Any post off 20" Dahon/tern folder should fit. I currently have a Kore I-beam post off a Dahon, my previous post was also off a Dahon. I switched because stock swift lay back too far for my ideal position. used for years without any bother.

swift needs very tight clamping on the seat post and my top tip there if it's not clamping tight enough is to lube the QR levers and lube regularly.

I use a carbon fork off an airnimal chameleon, and made a bracket to lower the brake caliper mount. My fork is made for 520 wheels so with the 406 wheels I now use, the trail is very short so handling is twitchy (I like it like that). I have run 520 wheels on my swift in the past and it was faster and more comfy, just not compact enough folded for my daily train commute.

The I-beam post/saddle combo also saved weight.
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Old 02-06-15, 10:51 AM
  #3429  
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Originally Posted by jur
Seatpost: Pazzazz, bought from a Singapore shop, they have discontinued them;

Stem, Bacchetta recumbent curved riser

Fork is a carbon for 650C wheel
Originally Posted by rickybails
Any post off 20" Dahon/tern folder should fit. I currently have a Kore I-beam post off a Dahon, my previous post was also off a Dahon. I switched because stock swift lay back too far for my ideal position. used for years without any bother.

swift needs very tight clamping on the seat post and my top tip there if it's not clamping tight enough is to lube the QR levers and lube regularly.

I use a carbon fork off an airnimal chameleon, and made a bracket to lower the brake caliper mount. My fork is made for 520 wheels so with the 406 wheels I now use, the trail is very short so handling is twitchy (I like it like that). I have run 520 wheels on my swift in the past and it was faster and more comfy, just not compact enough folded for my daily train commute.

The I-beam post/saddle combo also saved weight.
Thanks guys. I think I will try one of the generic carbon folding bike seatposts and yeah, lube the QR levers - I already get occasional post slipping issues with the stock post if I don't have the QRs clamped very tight. I also don't like how far setback the stock seat post is. The fork still sounds a bit iffy - I run a fairly wide front 406 tire so not sure any 650c fork will work and I'm not a big fan of twitchy handling. One upgrade at a time...
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Old 02-06-15, 02:55 PM
  #3430  
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Originally Posted by idc
The fork still sounds a bit iffy - I run a fairly wide front 406 tire so not sure any 650c fork will work
Don't forget all forks get wider to 100mm at the bottom, so the narrowest 650c fork that has room for only the skinniest tyre at the top, should still be quite wide lower down where the 406 tyre would sit. My Airnimal fork only has room for skinny tyres on a 520 rim but I've run 45mm tyres on 406 and there's loads of room to spare.

The stock steel forks on a swift are quite heavy I recall. I snapped the steerer on my stock fork a few years back (while riding it!)

And I forgot to mention - Airnimal are a good source for a long steerer extension to replace the stock QR one. I snapped my stock QR stem riser (while riding it!). Don't know how I managed to bring the bike to a halt without falling off. Wasn't so lucky last year when I snapped the stem riser on my Dahon (again, while riding it) - fell flat on my arse in the middle of a busy road - had to limp home.
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Old 02-06-15, 03:56 PM
  #3431  
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Originally Posted by rickybails
Don't forget all forks get wider to 100mm at the bottom, so the narrowest 650c fork that has room for only the skinniest tyre at the top, should still be quite wide lower down where the 406 tyre would sit. My Airnimal fork only has room for skinny tyres on a 520 rim but I've run 45mm tyres on 406 and there's loads of room to spare.
Thanks, yeah I'm running 406x 1.75 / 45mm. What brakes were you running with 406? Seems like you would need long reach I guess?

Yeah I haven't removed the fork to weigh it but I think I read somewhere in my research that the stock fork is 800g+, and a replacement can save around 300-400g!

So does any 650c fork work? Can I get one to work without it being too twitchy? (And more importantly, will the top tube still be horizontal? A bit silly I know but I don't want to mess up the aesthetic too much.)
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Old 02-06-15, 04:26 PM
  #3432  
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Originally Posted by idc
So does any 650c fork work? Can I get one to work without it being too twitchy? (And more importantly, will the top tube still be horizontal? A bit silly I know but I don't want to mess up the aesthetic too much.)
You don't want to deviate too far from the stock fork length without understanding the concequences. The important dimension is crown to axle (crown= where the bottom of the fork steerer meets the bottom of the head tube, where the lower ball bearings of the headset sit). My 520-wheel fork has the same crown-axle length as the stock swift fork so I didn't change the geometry. You might think a fork made for bigger wheels would be longer, but on the swift fork there's a lot of space between the crown and the tyre, and on an Airnimal chameleon there's much less distance between tyre and crown - the tyre fits right up in the fork so there's barely room for mudguards. Changing the length of the fork does more than spoil the aesthetics of the horizontal top tube.

If you get a shorter fork than stock i.e. so that headtube crown sits lower than before
- the angles of the headtube and seat tube are steeper. From memory I think 1" of fork length change = 1 degree of angle.
- steeper seat tube angle puts saddle further forward in relation to bottom bracket, or it means you need less layback to acheive same position as before
- steeper head tube angle shortens the trail on the front wheel. On a fork made for bigger wheels than 20" you turn a twitchy ride even twitchier
*by twitchy I mean shorter trail so there is less tendancy for bike to steer in a straight line by itself, and less force required to turn it.
** trail is the distance that the front tyre's road contact point sits behind where the steering axis of the head tube meets the road
- bars go lower for same stem/stem riser, or you need a longer stem riser and shorter stem to acheive the same contact point.
- the shorter stem would give more direct steering, which for some might compensate for the shorter trail.

The ideal fork for a swift IMO would be one that was an inch shorter, so we had steeper seat/head tube angles, but a normal trail. No such fork is available with such a big rake (bend) AFAIK but I have often considered getting a custom one made. The large rake required could give some welcome vertical flex too.
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Old 02-06-15, 10:38 PM
  #3433  
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Originally Posted by rickybails
You don't want to deviate too far from the stock fork length without understanding the concequences. The important dimension is crown to axle (crown= where the bottom of the fork steerer meets the bottom of the head tube, where the lower ball bearings of the headset sit). My 520-wheel fork has the same crown-axle length as the stock swift fork so I didn't change the geometry.
Yeah, I think I will leave the fork for now. I have a front fender/mudguard and V-brakes so quite a few things would have to change since most of these aftermarket forks are for fast road/tri bikes.

I like the last bike here, although the fork looks like it would make the handling a little too twitchy:
https://www.swiftfolders.com/cnfgs/4onFloor.pdf

Interesting to see that two of these customs use a Ti stem riser, and two also appear to have custom seatposts.

I'm not sure I want to upgrade anything now (I went back through the Swift threads) - I'm a bit afraid a lighter seatpost could compromise the frame. Maybe I should just spring for a new wheelset instead
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Old 02-07-15, 12:00 AM
  #3434  
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What are you willing to spend?

Although I am unwilling to recommend the carbon post, mine has stood up to some 5 or 6 years of punishment.

There is now a titanium fork option available. Or an entire frame if you have the budget, for a mere $650.

Last edited by jur; 02-07-15 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 02-07-15, 09:04 PM
  #3435  
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Originally Posted by jur
What are you willing to spend?
I was thinking $100-300 depending on what I had swapped out. But since the folding mechanism relies on the seatpost being thick and sturdy (and heavy, and somewhat uncompliant), and there's not really a correct replacement fork out there, I can't see it being worthwhile. I don't really want a new frame (I just have too many bikes already, and I like that the current frame is warrantied for life), although that is a really good price for Ti and the double top tube looks amazing.

I'm happy with how the bike rides geometry/fit-wise but I do wish it was a little more comfortable, especially over small bumps/potholes/etc. and it was a bit lighter. I had mine set up as a road bike with drop bars and accordingly took it on centuries, road group rides, etc. It certainly lived up to my hopes of being more able than most would expect from a small wheeled bike. But now I have a heavy leather saddle, wide tires with greater rolling resistance and a longer stem because of the comfort issues, and it's sort of dragged the bike down to a novelty ride rather than a real option. It's just palpably less efficient than most of my other bikes, so less fun to ride.

This is close to my original build. I later upgraded the crank/BB to Ultegra 6700 but since then any changes have made it heavier/burlier. I don't think there's much I can do though - the inherent design of the bike requires the sturdy seat post, and with the small wheels and low slung headtube you are always going to struggle to dampen the front of the bike. (I'd bet your build with skinny 451 slicks and a carbon fork + seatpost is still more comfortable than my stock build with 406x1.75 tires!)
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Old 02-22-15, 07:36 PM
  #3436  
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There's a very nice Xootr Swift for sale on Craigslist: F/S Xootr Swift w/Custom NuVinci Wheelset - willing to trade for rower
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Old 03-07-15, 05:02 PM
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Hi,

I have a stock Xootr Swift that's about five years old. I love it and I'm thinking of tricking it out a bit. I'm thinking of:

- Drop bars
- 451 wheels
- shifter brake levers
- caliper brakes

It seems like it'd be real easy to spend a ton of money on this and replace nearly everything, but I don't want to replace things that don't need replacing.

My question is: how independent are the various part choices? Do the brakes have to match the levers? Should I replace the cassette and derailleur together (and do they need to match the shifters)?

Any advice on the above, or books, websites, or any other resources that might help a new builder, would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 03-07-15, 09:22 PM
  #3438  
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Shifters: Obviously the number of speeds needs to match the number of cassette cogs.
Shifters, rear: SRAM shifters don't work with shimano derailers or vice versa.
Brakes: You will either need long reach brake calipers for using brifters with brakes, or will need to make up a drop bolt to lower the brakes on the fork.
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Old 03-14-15, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by idc
1. First and foremost is the seat post - would any readily available/stock carbon 33.9mm diameter long seat post be okay with the folding mechanism? I use the bike more like a minivelo but I do fold it at least a few times a year. (My current stock post is cut < 500mm so I'm sure any length long post would be okay, they all seem to start from 580mm.) I am not planning to attach anything other than maybe a water bottle holder to the front of the post (no rack, bags, etc.). I am 65kgs if that's relevant. I am just afraid of cracking it either from clamping (maybe carbon paste would help?) or from sideways forces from the two frame pieces.
Any tips/advice appreciated!
I went with a alloy seatpost https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 cheaper than carbon and less worry about the folding mechanism. I think it is about half the weight of the stock post and barely heavier than carbon ones. Its certainly the cheapest upgrade you can do to shave the most weight.

I would love to do a carbon fork and get my bike under 20 lbs but I don't want to deal with trying to fabricate something to work.
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Old 03-14-15, 09:39 AM
  #3440  
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Originally Posted by mmoylan
I went with a alloy seatpost Amazon.com : RockBros Folding Bike MTB Alloy 6061T6 CNC Seatpost Seat Post 33.9mm 580mm (Black) : Sports & Outdoors cheaper than carbon and less worry about the folding mechanism. I think it is about half the weight of the stock post and barely heavier than carbon ones. Its certainly the cheapest upgrade you can do to shave the most weight.

I would love to do a carbon fork and get my bike under 20 lbs but I don't want to deal with trying to fabricate something to work.
Thanks! I may well try that one.
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Old 03-15-15, 07:59 AM
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I have the cane creek post on my bike, raised bars and a RiDo saddle, its quite comfy and pretty fast!
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Old 03-15-15, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dezzie
I have the cane creek post on my bike, raised bars and a RiDo saddle, its quite comfy and pretty fast!
Nice one...thanks.

I love my SWIFT...
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Old 04-06-15, 08:37 PM
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im attempting to convert my swift with thensame fork as you hoping it all goes well, still need to get 451 wheels/tires do you have advice on clearance issues etc?
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Old 07-13-15, 08:14 AM
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A Steel Swift Folder - single speed - is for sale on Craigslist in Tampa. Looks nice:



https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/bik/5111250444.html
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Old 07-14-15, 11:40 AM
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I am not a newbie but just about as far as any thing technical goes on here. I see the add for a steel Swift for Sale in Tampa (about 70 miles away) It's listed for $467 as a fixie. I have no interest in a fixie but from the little I can see the bike looks in good shape. Is that a reasonable price for a steel version? Especially considering I would need to convert it to a geared version?

Any opinions about the steel versus aluminum versions? In general I prefer steel.

Jim

ADDITION _ any thoughts on how hard it would be to convert this to a a multigear bike - either hub or derailleur?

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Old 07-15-15, 06:45 AM
  #3446  
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Originally Posted by jmaher
Is that a reasonable price for a steel version? Especially considering I would need to convert it to a geared version?

Any opinions about the steel versus aluminum versions?
This 139 page thread has lots on the steel vs aluminum. It can be distilled to this: They both perform well. Aluminum is a bit lighter.

If I lived 70 miles from this bike - I'd go get it. A new steel frame is twice that. A steel swift is a rare bird to find. It looks clean & has nice components (I like those humongous bullhorns). The black steel looks mondo cool to my eye.

A bike shop could lace a new hub and add a derailleur - you may want to price a new wheel vs the rebuild. While I agree that I would make this a multi-speed, if I got this bike, the first thing I'd do is ride it as is. Maybe for a while.
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Old 07-16-15, 09:31 PM
  #3447  
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Google for "velocity aeroheat" and my now-retired blue Swift comes up first in the images!
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Old 07-18-15, 06:13 AM
  #3448  
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Originally Posted by jur
Google for "velocity aeroheat" and my now-retired blue Swift comes up first in the images!
As well it should - your site is a Sheldon like reference for Swifts and folders in general. I'll admit to checking it out for Swift inspiration.
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Old 07-18-15, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jmaher
I am not a newbie but just about as far as any thing technical goes on here. I see the add for a steel Swift for Sale in Tampa (about 70 miles away) It's listed for $467 as a fixie. I have no interest in a fixie but from the little I can see the bike looks in good shape. Is that a reasonable price for a steel version? Especially considering I would need to convert it to a geared version?

Any opinions about the steel versus aluminum versions? In general I prefer steel.

Jim

ADDITION _ any thoughts on how hard it would be to convert this to a a multigear bike - either hub or derailleur?
Buy it, it's an excellent deal. It would be very simple to convert to igh, as all you'd need is a wheel laced with the hub and the shifters. I had my Swift using a NuVinci N360 wheelset. Or just order the derailleur hanger from the Xootr website and you can install what you like as well.
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Old 07-22-15, 07:58 PM
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Just an FYI: there's 2 Swifts for sale on Craigslist in NYC. One is $450, and the other is $600 or OBO.
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