Thanks F&T and James. I will let him know.

:)

Running Windows 2000 Pro but managed to use ACDSee to resize the images - hope they come up OK. If there is anything specific you'd like to see a pic of, let me know.

That bike is a definite one-of-a-kind, especially with those radical disc brakes. Wow! :eek: Could you also post some pics of that sweet crankset/chainring?

I see that you have a lovely cache of other bikes, including a Friday. ;)

I forgot to mention that you can remove those rear V-brake brake mounting posts with a crescent wrench. The front ones, however, are not removable.;)

I am thinking about getting the swift sometime soon and I noticed that the main site says they are out of stock. Does anybody know if the new frame improvements (e.g. broken seat post area ala James_swift) will be part of the late January run or do we need to wait a little longer?

I'm assuming the latest updates will be in march-april?

Also, is it possible to replace the v-brakes w/ road brakes? Will the rear triangle and front fork mount points work? I'm thinking of using these:

Nashbar Long Reach

This will be a drop-bar conversion (trying to avoid travel agents)

My frame failure was due to an error in the machining of the lower seat tube...it was actually honed off-center, leaving one side of the tube thinner than the other. This problem has been rectified in later model Swifts (I bought my original Swift in 2005). I checked the wall thickness of the seat tube on my new Swift with calipers, and the tube is perfectly concentric (my old one measured a mm or so thinner on the cracked side). The re-designed Swift will have a new seat tube with a thicker wall for added strength. ETA for this new frame has not yet been announced.

I'm very confident in the current Swift frame for 3 reasons: 1.) Peter, Steve, and Karl have been very proactive with my frame issue (thanks again, guys) 2.) I unknowingly rode my Swift for over a week with the cracked seat tube, with a fully loaded messenger bag on SF's pothole-infested streets without any hint of a problem except for a slight creaking sound in the frame whenever I was out of the saddle 3.) All Xootr Swift frames come with a lifetime warranty. You really have nothing to worry about.

As for the brakes, since you're going to drop bars, just keep the stock V-brakes and go with Dia Compe 287-V "Æro" road levers (designed for V-brakes). Yangmusa has a set on his Swift. PM him for details.

I don't have much to add really - they work fine, and were no harder to set up than regular mtb brake levers with v-brakes. The adjustment is on a special brake noodle that comes with the levers, rather than on the lever itself. I find them very comfortable too.

The Nashbar long-reach brakes max-out at 56mm. I measured the distance between the brake pivot bolt hole to the center of the rim braking surface on my Swift, and it measured 82mm. What will work, however, are the Tektro 984 Extra Long Reach Calipers (88mm reach). These brakes are for BMX applications, so I'm not sure if road levers will have enough pull.

James, thanks for looking this up. I think I will go with the travel agents. I actually have a set on my full-size road-bike (it was originally a hybrid/touring bike I converted to drop-bar) since this solution will be less than the special road brakes you mentioned. I don't mind the travel agents, I was just trying to do the full "roadie" setup.

When I get the bike ordered and setup, I'll come back and post my results.

Thanks again.

Another option to the pricey Dia Compe 287-V levers are the Diatech 287V levers from Gaerlan. At $45, they're about the same price as a pair of Travel Agents, and will work much better (I wish I had seen this before I bought for my TAs, which suck btw :( ).

I got myself an extra-cool addon for my retro-swift.
It is an original Brooks Cycle Bag from around 1957. It looks kind of funny on the swift. And it works good.
What do you think?

interesting catalogue

I think it looks cool...the gentleman's Swift. :)

I like it. It doesn't look aerodynamic, but it does look like it has plenty of room and is very functional.

I had one more question on possibly adding a front derailleur. I've read on this thread that some people have gotten it to work. Would it require something like this to jury-rig together?

Braze-on Front Deraulleur Clamp (34.9mm + some sort of pipe clamp)

and this?

Shimano 105 Front Derailleur (Braze-on)

I already have a Nexus-8 Hub that will be in there. My thoughts are to add the new bottom bracket with a 105 standard double crank. This will give me some added top and low end. (Pretty much equiv to a compact double for 700cc)

Hubbub on right drop and bar-end shifter on left? I won't be doing this right away, just curious to see if this is even possible.

Thanks.

Oziswift, what type of rear derailleur-hanger did you mount, and where did you find it?

Hi James and owners of other Nifty Swifties

Sharp eyes!;) The cache of bikes is owned by myself and my partner; besides the Bike Friday, there's also a Birdy. The problem with both is in the quick folding; with the Bike Friday Pocket Rocket Pro, folding tends to throw the derailleurs out of whack. Alex Wetmore's articles sent me down the Swift Folder path. Here's the pics you asked for. The crankset details are in my original post on page 33.

Hi maunakea

Peter Reich supplied me with a bare XOOTR Swift frameset and the rear derailleur-hanger was part of the package. See here => http://www.xootr.com/xootr/swift/specifications.shtml especially the 3rd image from the top. Peter supplied me with a spare so you could try him.

Thanks James - I'm waiting for a a set of A2Z Pivot Plugs see => http://www.cyclesolutions.com.au/products/brake_hw.htm to tidy up the rear end. Just proving difficult to lay my hands on a set right now.

Hi kb5ql

Check out the specs on my Swift posted on page 33. I'm running an SRAM Dual Drive. Twist shifter on a HubBub adaptor on one bar end, bar end shifter on the other. There are a couple of pics there too.

When researching the issue of using drop bar levers with V or mechanical disk brakes, I came across a couple of sites that didn't find Travel Agents (or similar solutions) satisfactory. You've three other alternatives.

(1) use Diacompe/Diatech 287 V brake specific levers or

(2) use a short pull (mini v-brake) set up as used on BMX bikes see => http://bicycles.thurstons.us/18$_solution.htm. Tektro have upgraded their mini v-brake range see => http://www.tektro.com/02products/. These brakes will work with road brake levers. If you check out the mini v-brakes on these two pages, you could find something that suits => http://harriscyclery.net/page.cfm?Pa...rch&startRow=1
You'll need a model with this specification: Brake Lever Actuation = Short Pull (such as the BX3Vs)

(3) There are also a whole new range of low profile cantilevers (Avid, Cane Creek, Tektro) appearing on 'cross bikes that use normal drop bar levers. Only trouble with small wheels is that big feet tend to catch on the rear cantilever. Check out => http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html and ask Sheldon what he would do.

I think my brother is running Avid low profile cantilevers with Shimano levers on a Moulton with a Rohloff 14 speed internal hub.

Hope this helps.

Hi kb5ql

Would you please point me to the notice on the main site with the "out of stock" message? Thanks

Orders received by 3pm ET Mon - Fri usually ship same business day.
January 03, 2007 - The Xootr Swift is temporarily out of stock due to unexpected demand. We expect to receive our next shipment near
the end of February in 2007.

http://www.xootr.com/

I don't know about Peter Reich's stock (steel frame) as I am interested in the ALU Version. I ordered mine directly from nycewheels.com. Should be arriving on Wed or Thurs.

As for the TravelAgents, I am using them on my 700cc Road Bike w/ Shimano 105 Groupset. I've had no problems w/ them. I'm going to go that route with the swift. I'll be posting back with my results once I've finished attempting the upgrades.

Hey there. Can you elaborate a bit on this? I haven't heard BF riders complain about this at all.

I have noticed that I don't need to adjust my Swift derailleur when packing.... probably because I have to remove it to pack it in the first place. ;)

I think it's because the Friday's rear triangle pivot is just behind bottom bracket, so the chain rides around the chainring as the bike folds. The Swift's integrated rear triangle/bottom bracket pivots as single unit, so chain tension is not affected.

Hi

James is right. The Bike Friday’s pivot point is behind the bottom bracket so two things happen.

(1) The distance between the crank set and rear hub changes as you fold the bike. It gets shorter so the chain tends to drop off unless the derailleur can “eat” the slack.
(2) The front derailleur doesn’t move so the chain tends to catch the bottom of the front derailleur cage and pull it out of place.

This is exacerbated because the pivot is also angled so the rear triangle/rear wheel folds up to one side of the top tube. This causes the chain to exert a sideways force on the cogs, cranks and derailleurs unless you’re very very careful about the set up before the fold. The perfect chain line in the unfolded position is angled in the folded position. The front derailleur is often the most affected – and the chain tends to fall off the chain rings as well.

The Swift has what was described as a unified rear triangle (URT) on early-model full suspension mountain bikes. (The old Klein Mantra is the best example, although there were several others – Trek Y bikes for example). With these bikes, the relationship between the front crank set/front derailleur and the rear hub/rear derailleur, chain line and chain length remained constant as the rear triangle moved.

The Swift adopts this principle and takes it to an extreme. The bottom bracket (and front derailleur if fitted) is part of the folding rear triangle and so the bottom bracket to dropout distance never changes. Also, the pivot point is not angled, so, when you fold the Swift, not only does the rear triangle/rear wheel fold directly under the top tube but also:
(3) The distance between the crank set and rear hub remains constant as you fold the bike.
(4) The front derailleur moves with the fold so the chain doesn’t do anything to the derailleurs because the chain length and chain line don’t change from the unfolded position.

There’s a good article about the difference between Bike Fridays and Swifts here => http://www.phred.org/~alex/bikes/bf-vs-swift.html - and ask a Bike Friday owner with a front derailleur to fold their bike so you can see what happens for yourself. The Air Fridays may not suffer from this problem to the same extent.

Oziswift, thanks for the info on the RD hanger. I'll email Peter.

For the BF chain problem, why not put a SRAM master link in the chain, and remove the chain when packing. I use master links on all my bikes now. Started with the folders, but the ML makes a chain bath so much easier.

In everyones honest opinion, how close to a normal road bike can the swift be made into?
The only reason I ask is because I just had the opportunity to ride an Ultegra equipped Giant ocr1, and I was very impressed with the ride compared to my fixed gear conversion. I now see that I have been missing out on a lot of the joys of owning a geared bike. I have always wanted a folder, with the main intention of making it a fixed gear bike ala james (and others) but now my main thoughts are to have it as a nice geared bike with the option to make it fixed gear if I so decided.
Can I expect the frame to accomodate my intentions of making it a competently equipped roadie? (Without a front derailer though)
Opinions and thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Hi big boy phil

Very close in my opinion. See my posts/pics on page 33 (#805, #813) and page 34 (#828, #831). You can certainly run Ultegra components on most of it. Here are the compromises you may have to make.

(0) You'll need the aluminium XOOTR Swift frameset with the rear derailer hanger (unless you put in a special order with Peter => http://www.swiftfolder.com/index.html or the Center for Appropriate Transport => http://www.catoregon.org/ if you're going down the all steel path).

(1) No front derailleur - although you could fit a double chainring and shift from the big to little chainring by hand - there's a reference to that somewhere in this thread and it's the way they used to do it a long time ago.

(2) Gearing: You're going to need either (a) much larger chainrings than the normal 53/39 crankset or (b) much smaller sprockets. Bike Friday sell sell large chainrings; not sure if they'll fit the Ultegra cranks. TA Specialities also provide outsize chainrings. Alternatively, you could run Shimano's Capreo rear cassette (9-26 teeth). Bike Friday and Moulton have modifed this cassette so it runs from 9-28 or 9-32. However, if you do this, you'll need the Capreo rear hub. If you use just one front chainring, the Ultegra short cage derailer should be adequate; if you end up with two chainrings, you'll need the long cage version.

(3) Brakes. I don't think that Shimano's dual pivot brakes will fit. I'm not at home so I can't check. If you decide to run with drop bars and Shimano Ultegra 'brifters', then you have 3 options to use V brakes with these levers. (a) use a (inline?) Travel Agent (b) use Tektro mini v-brakes (c) use one of the new low profile cantilevers. I'd use Tektro's top of the line mini Vs if I was going down this path. I've read mixed reviews about Travel Agents and the low profile cantis from Avid, Tektro, Cane Creek, when fitted as a rear brake, tend to catch your heel when your pedaling.

The other option is to use Diacompe/Diatech 287 V brake specific brake levers with a bar end shifter. See my post above (#831). You might also like to check out the information on Alex Wetmore's bicycle pages => http://www.phred.org/~alex/bikes/, especially about small wheeled bikes/folders.

You can build up wheels on narrow rims (Alex, Velocity, Sun) and use narrow, high pressure tyres from either Schwalbe or Continental.

Look forward to seeing how you go.

OziSwift

Depends on what you do with your road bike.

The handling will not be the same, no matter what you do. It's very responsive, so it's hard to take one hand off the bars, and difficult (if not ill-advised) to ride no-hands. I've found this interferes with my ability to make hand signals and do on-bike stretches.

The ride will be rougher than a typical road bike, unless you do something to smooth it out (e.g. use plush tires) -- which will have a (minor) impact on your overall speed. I'm definitely not enjoying the ride quality with 100psi Marathon Slicks.

Unless you put a double front chainring or something funky like a SRAM DualDrive on your bike, your gearing range with just a single front chainring will be smaller than a standard road bike. However, I find the single front is a good compromise between simplicity and gearing.

Personally I find all this makes the bike poorly suited for fast group rides and maybe centuries, and good for almost everything else.

I agree that the Swift is more responsive, but I'm able to comfortably ride mine no-handed, and I'm not an especially acrobatic cyclist. While I haven't ridden it on a century yet (though I intend to), I've done a couple of 50 mile rides, and found it comfortable enough. I too am using narrow high pressure tires (Stelvio 1.125" @ 90 psi), but I will put on something wider (Marathon Racers?) when they wear out, in the interest of more comfort, and perhaps a somewhat less responsive front end.

I don't do many group rides on mine, but that's because it's a fixed gear, which brings its own issues when riding with others.

I'm not really disagreeing with Bacciagalupe--the Swift will not behave the same as a 700c road bike. But the differences are surprisingly minor, to me at least.

Jack