spambait11

I've tried the Quick Cage on handle bar stems only (Bike Friday and Brompton): it works, but it is hard to get the water bottle out fluidly because you have to pull it out at an angle; the metal cage holds the bottle too well. Also, sometimes the whole unit will twist when you're trying to pull up the bottle or shove it down; it's hard to pull the velcro strap tight enough to stop it from moving.

I've stopped using it.

BruceMetras

Jollydriver!.. I like your bike!! Here's how I mounted my main water bottle.. It uses the Minoura clamp and the bottle has to be sort of wedged under the bar and cables to get out.. meaning, road shock doesn't launch it, but I can still get at it pretty easy without much of a fight. Also, I'm running Pantour front suspension hub and that also reduces frontend shock.

Bruce

pxboii

Hi all,

Has anyone had experience touring on a swift(xootr)? I'm planning to tour from Calgary to Jasper in the rockies this summer. There are few mtn passes and some are 15% grade.

thank you

james_swift

I haven't done any touring on mine, but I have ridden my Xootr Swift up a 16% grade hill (Taylor Street in San Francisco). The stock 36 gear inches in 52x28 forces you to stand and mash like a madman...there's no other way about it. Obviously not ideal for in-the-saddle-granny-gear-spinning as what you may need for touring.

Gearing aside, the Xootr Swift frame easily handled the hill...good and solid with no flexing, creaking, or ticking, in spite of my yanking on the bars like a gorilla to counter-act the tremendous amount of force being fed into the pedals to crank up that killer hill in a crazy 36 gear inches.

You might want to get in touch with Xootr service and see what they can do for you in terms of gearing options. Most likely they will re-direct your request to Peter.

Wavshrdr

You could use a dual chainring crank like I did. I went with a 53/39 front to drive the rear hub. I manually need to change the front rings as I didn't want a derailleur (extra weight and complexity). I just wanted a hi/low range ala a Schlumpf but at a lesser cost. I am going to try and post pics tomorrow.

BruceMetras

A quick help would be to install an 11/34 mega range cassette (which I did on mine) with a 52 chainring, that would give you approximately 29 to 91 gear-inches... I found that a little low for my use and changed out the front chainring to a 58t.. now it's 32 to 101 which seems good for me right now. Short of a SRAM dualdrive (nice unit) or a Schlumpf (also nice), Wav's double chainring is a fine way to go to give you an additional 2 more lower gears and stretching a 307% overall range out to around 412% ..

Bruce

yangmusa

Pictures and more on the manufacturer's website, here. Also, Alex Wetmore describes here how to disassemble the older steel Swift into a Samsonite 29".

v1nce

Oh yes, i had actually stumbled across those pictures a long time but completely forgot about them. Sorry about that! *slaps forehead*. Nice to know it has that capability, a real selling point for any folder, especially coupled with the low weight of the Swift.

Wavshrdr

Speaking of low weight, the entire shipping weight of my Swift including extra seat, extra parts AND the box was 29lbs. That isn't too bad. That also included my fenders, dual chain ring, upgraded rims, internal hub, Brooks saddle, etc. I plan on weighing it Friday after I decide what pedals I will use the most. Most likely my QR Promenades with straps. I took a few pics tonight but I need more light. So most likely I'll post them tomorrow if I get home in time to have some daylight. It gets dark early this far north unfortunately.

Almost forgot the green frame with the black fenders looks really sweet. Combined with the Brooks saddle it looks sort of retro but modern. I can't wait to post photos that are actually of good quality.

pxboii

I was talking to a LBS guy today and he says he highly discourage me to do the tour with a swift folder. He says he is from that area (Banff) and says I would enjoy my tour better on a 700cc bike and he went on to say the folder would be very harsh ride due to small wheels. I like Wav's idea adding a front derailleur and a second chainring though.

Wavshrdr

Don't forget that tire choice can make a HUGE difference in ride quality. Add a Thudbuster and you have quite a smooth ride (better than my big wheeled bikes on high pressure tires). Since I bought a bunch of folders this last year I've maybe put 40 miles on my big wheeled bikes. I toured a lot in Europe on my small wheeled bikes with no issues other than to have low enough gears for the moutains. Get a Thudbuster and decent tires and you will be amazed!

v1nce

@ pxboii, as Sydney put it so well: 'There is a lot of BS in LBS'. I also know from first hand experience that touring on a 20 inch folder can very comfortable. I run a Sprung Brooks Saddle and Big Apple tires but that might even be a bit excessive. If you are still worried about comfort check some of the threads on these boards, i think you will find that it is a non issue for almost everyone and your LBS guy is propagating a myth.

Wavshrdr

I finally had a chance to take some photos of my custom Swift and to post them. I rode it about 10 miles today. Here in Minnesnowtah it was almost 50 degrees!!!! Normally we are at 0 or colder this time of year. Bike was a blast to ride. Fenders kept me dry as can be even though there was a lot of melting run off.

I hope you all like the custom John Deere Green powder coating along with the custom yellow decals I spec'd. I wanted a more "English" type script to go with the retro fenders and Brooks Pro saddle. Chain is a stainless Wipperman. Hub is the Nexus Red Label 8spd (high efficiency version). Brakes are Shimano Deore XT (parallel push) which work great by the way. Heavy duty rims with Schwalbe tires. Front chainrings are 53/39 for a good wide ratio gear set. I manually move them over for big hills. Singulator won't work do to the wide difference of chainring size so for now using a derailleur until I can custom make a chain tensioner that will work better for it. Pedals are QR MKS Promenades with Power Grips. Fenders are Planet Bike for 20" wheels. I am sure I am forgetting something else custom I did but it was such a long work in progress that I probably forgot.

Yet to add is my QR rack, lights, cyclometer, GPS, bell and mirrors. I will probably add a dynamo when I get a chance but I have found some very high intensity LEDs (3-5 watts) that work great so I might just stick with them for a while and they are easily removed. The saddle is pretty comfy out of the box but it will need a few miles to break-in but for now I am really surprised how nice it is. For not being an "anatomically correct" saddle it doesn't seem to hurt any of the more tender bits of my anatomy. So far it was well worth the price of admission.

I was trying for something sort of retro but modern. Sort of Mazda Miata but on 2 wheels. It rides amazingly well. I thought it would be a bit harsher but the aluminum rides very well. I won't need any suspension up front but I will probably add my Thudbuster later to absorb a little. Keep in mind that are roads here are heavily frost damaged so it is often like riding on cobblestone streets. For 90% of the people there would probably be no complaints about the ride. I personally was amazed. Out of the box it didn't ride much worse than my fully suspended Dahon did without the Thudbuster.

All I can say is kudos to Peter and curse him at the same time. Now I will hate to ride some of my other bikes. It truly is that good! It feels as good as a Bike Friday but with a better fold. Also for the car the fold isn't quite as good as my Dahon or Downtube and if I drop the seatpost back in like normal it will hit my rear fender. Other than that I am totally impressed. If you are considering a Swift because you want something different than the Xootr don't hesitate at all. Or even the basic Xootr is a great platform to start with. I wanted powdercoating and an internal hub to start with and the Xootr doesn't come that way. I couldn't be happier. Absolutely awesome bike!!! Considering the number of other folders I have this is definitely not faint praise.

When I was thinking about the color I was really torn with going basic black or something different. I thought that the JD green combined with yellow decals and black fenders could be sort of a unique combination with a both a sublime and more obvious contrast. I think it works pretty well and Peter was surprised how it turned out. The silver rims, seatpost, stainless chain, handlebar stem and chainrings add a little accent to it. I might consider a CF seatpost and anodizing the handlebar stem black but I have time to tinker now and then. Your comments are of course welcome.

Here's to you Peter!

james_swift

Wow, that's awesome.

You must be 1 really tall rider to need a stem with that high a rise in addition to the height that the vertical stem riser already provides. I had to cut mine down a couple of inches just to get the handlebars 1 inch below my saddle!

That paint job is immaculate. Regarding the fenders...if it were me, with a bike as pristine as that, I wouldn't dare take it out in the rain.

Wavshrdr

It seems I have arms like a gorilla and legs to match. The bike had already been out for a spin in the metling snow. The fenders work well. They will definitely help keep it cleaner that is for sure!

DaFriMon

Wavshdr, that is very interesting indeed, and a lovely custom build. Obviously you thought out very carefully what you wanted, and went for it. What are the advantages, though, of changing between front chainrings by hand, rather than having a front derailleur? I assume you have to stop the bike to do this. I can see that it would save somewhat on clutter, and it's one less thing to get damaged. Rivendell has used a similar idea on one of their bikes: the Quickbeam, I think. Still, it seems a little awkward.

v1nce

Absolutely the nicest looking, best components (almost exactly what i would want if i got another folder) most versatile Swift i have ever seen. "Best of show"! Thumbs up for doing it and thumbs up for Peter as well. Great powdercoat job by looks of it. Any idea how many base layers and clearcoats?

I am digging the double chainring/der/hub setup!

@ DaFri, i think Wav once explained that he only intends to switch the chain while doing long tours that include steep inclinations and such.

The Green looks ace and the whole bike looks uberretro and high tech/fast at the same time. So you say you actually like it better than the BF...?! That IS high praise.

Maybe Peter could add another hinge to the Swift somewhere, i don't think any folder could touch it then (in terms of Price/versatility and ride) and i would definately consider buying one in this case...

One little thing, in my opinion it deserves better handlebar grips! Maybe nice cork tape or the really good foam ones that don't soak up water?

About the Brooks, is this your first one then...?

Total Cost? Weight at present?
What kind of headset is that? Looks nice, cool color.

Did you punch al those extra holes in those PowerGrips or did they come that way?

Wavshrdr

@DaFriMon - v1nce got it right about the chainring setup. I put a lot of thought in it and I have about a 400% range which is just about right for me. I wanted a simple, reliable way that wouldn't add a lot of weight and be cheaper than a Rohloff or Schlumpf drive. It is clean with minimal clutter and I will change it based on the conditions I plan on riding. I have also 2 rear sprockets to further fine tune gearing. My usual cadence is 90 rpm and at the various setups that is 13/17.7 mph for 15T rear and 13.9/18.9mph with 14T rear when I am in the gear that is direct drive (i.e. most efficient) for my rear hub. It really isn't that difficult to change. If you have ever lost a chain and put it back on the front rings that is more effort than what I have to do. It takes me 5 seconds to do it. Grab chain, lift over and away I go. Took longer to type it than to do it.

@v1nce - thanks for the compliments. I did agonize over too many details. Perhaps obsess is a better way to put it. I really wanted the retro look but no one else seemed to see it in the Swift’s lines but I thought I could bring it out once I saw the old German frau fenders. I thought the Brooks saddle and internal hub would play quite nicely into my theme. The color was unique and the decals were the icing for it all.

It sometimes is hard when you have a vision as to whether it will play out as I imagined. I do like the most of all my folders. I wanted a very versatile bike that I could tour on or commute as well. The fold is still fast and easy. It is very responsive. The internal hub is much better than the other ones I have used. Just a great all around package.

The Brooks is my first new one. I agree about the grips but they are quite comfy. I sort of hate the shifter as it is opposite of my other bikes. Toward me is upshift and away downshift. I would prefer the reverse as my derailleur bike are just the opposite. But I LOVE being able to shift at stops on my folder. As for the weight I just weighed it; 27.4lbs on a very accurate scale. I think that is pretty good considering the rear hub, Brooks saddle, fenders, big pedals with power grips, heavy duty rims, etc. It is actually lighter than I originally anticipated. The power grips are the LARGE version because I have big feet and the normal ones won’t work and they do come with the extra holes.

I think it is definitely one of the most unique Swifts and an opposite tack of what most people take. I didn’t want a pseudo race bike but I wanted a GT car on 2 wheels. I also wanted a virtually indestructible bike and this thing feels like the rock of Gibraltar. I am a big guy and I felt no flex at all while riding from the frame or wheels. By comparison my Dahon felt wobbly and it really is pretty tight. That is not a slam against Dahon but really high praise for the Swift. Bars don't wiggle, steering is direct, no squeaks from the wheels, etc. I am a big guy and I always seem to stress folders but this is the first one that felt as solid as my full size street bike when I pushed hard on the pedals.

Total cost I have in it is about $1200 or so. It should have been more but Peter treated me quite well on some parts he had laying around the shop. It could be difficult to replicate it for that but if anything happens to this one I will buy another one just like it! At most maybe go to a Rohloff but I am really digging the current system. The more we went down the road of this project the more I think Peter got engaged into it. Sort of like making something out of the norm for even him. To me it was worth every penny and the long wait. Absolutely the most fun to ride bicycle I own bar none. I had several people stop and ask me about it when I stopped for a little snack while riding today. Even the normally PITA school kids near me gave it a double take and then a thumbs up.

I may add some bar ends but I want to be careful to keep the continuity of it all. I may add a squeeze bulb klaxon type horn just for grins. If I can keep the total weight under 30lbs I’ll be happy. For an internal hub bike with full (and very effective) fenders I am quite happy. A CF seatpost will shave some weight but the Thudbuster will add some of it back. It is dark outside and I just want to hop on it and go for another ride. I just can’t describe how efficient it feels when riding. I really can’t tell that it has a hub gear in the back when pedaling. Maybe Shimano wasn’t fibbing when they said it was their most efficient internal hub. I can only imagine as it gets better what it will be like. I am sure the Wipperman chain doesn’t hurt either. It’s stainless so good longevity there. The photos don’t really do the bike justice. If anyone happens to make it up to my area you are welcome to take a look at it or a spin if the weather will accommodate it.

As it is, this is most likely the first phase of this project. I have some other unique plans for it as time progresses but I don't have time to do it all at the moment. Thanks for all the others who posted pics of their Swifts/Xootrs. It helped realize what I like and disliked. It made the decision for powdercoating quite easy. The photos provided inspiration or allowed me to see different aspects of the design that I thought I could enhance and play upon. I was hoping that I didn't end up with a bastard of result that I could only call "Frankenbike". In the end I wanted something totally functional and at the same time unique. To that end I think was successful.

Scout!

What type of rack are you planning to use? I discovered that the seatpost is too wide for my Topeak QR seatpost mounted rack.

I received my Swift from Peter a couple days ago after months (two) of waiting. The only riding I did was once around the block--enough to notice that the chainring had been damaged in shipment. Disappointing!

My setup is black, with fenders like cosmodc's. After a great deal of waffling, I went with a Son-20 hub dynamo and a Schmidt E6 headlight. I can't say that I really believe the dyanmo is worth the price, but I want to find out what they're like. I also have visions of charging cell phones and gps units on long treks across the land.

I ordered Shimano M647 pedals--spd with platforms--but they were lost in transport. Haven't gotten replacements yet.

I'm glad to hear you're happy with your new ride.

v1nce

A very respectable weight considering all the stuff on it! The Xootr frame really delivers as a strong, versatile yet very light folder platform.

Great, great value at that price too, i think Peter really did well by you.

Do you happen to know how much more efficient that hub is than the regular version?

I will be curious to hear how the Brooks works out for you.

I also love the PlanetBike Fenders, glad to see that there are still companies out there making sensible good quality and functional fenders. The decal is also real classy and reminds me a little of Rivendell.

Wavshrdr

@Scout! - I thought about a dynamo very seriously and if go with anyone it will be the Lightspin. It has GREAT output (4.5watts) and is very efficient as well. It is not an internal hub but is one of the best I've seen. I too have thought about using it to power other devices.

For now though I have qty. 2 (3 watt) LED lights that take CR132R rechargable batteries. I use these on a few my bikes. There are about penlight size but 3 watt output with a high/low power setting. On high they run for just over an hour each. They weigh almost nothing and together I have 6 watts of output for almost exactly 1 hour and I can easily take them off of the bike and use them for repairs. They batteries are rechargable and they are very small in size so I can easily keep a few extra with me. The LEDs are made by Luxeon and are VERY high quality and rated for 100,000 hours. That is why I am in no hurry for using a normal halogen light on my bike yet. They have great light output and fit in my pocket when I leave the bike.

Here is the light I use on my bike. It is pretty good on its own but great in a dual setup.
3 watt Luxeon LED light

I love this next light. VERY small but bright. Smaller version of previous light but I ALWAYS keep one with me at all times.
Here is my 3 watt mini Luxeon "pocket light"

This next light I use a lot too. Big output but again 1 hour at max (5 watts) but also has flashing mode:
"Big Mama" 5 watt LED with great beam and 4 output levels

As for rack I may go with another Pletscher rack. I also have a pure seatpost mount rack (actually a few of them) that I bought at a local close-out store. If I go with my Thudbuster, the size won't matter. I will use the Dahon telescoping seatpost that then allows me to use a rack that will fit the 27mm diameter that is the upper part of the telescoping part which allows me to use a normal Thudbuster model.

@v1nce - last I read (can't find the source at the moment) the "Red Label" hub was about 3-4% better than the normal Nexus. So the efficiency would go from about 91% to about 93% or so. I don't feel any of the grinding I sort of felt in my other Nexi hubs that got better with time. This one started out better than my other ones that were already broken-in. It may not be as efficient as normal derailleur but it feels pretty darn close.

For me the best value of all this was I didn't end up with garage full of parts I wouldn't need later. I could have easily spent a lot more $$$ to buy the base bike and then upgrade later. This way I saved a lot of money up front by not buying 2 of everything such as chain, gears, tires, etc. I did spend more than I originally planned on but the end product was well worth the money in my estimation. I keep going out to the garage to look at it. It is still about 30 degrees out so I may put on my lights and go for a spin.

guydickinson

What a fantastic Swift, Wavshrdr - a true collaborative work of art - it made me come out of lurking on this board :-)

I noticed that you've got the curved front forks, as opposed to the stock straight ones on your alu frame - your attention to detail means you must have specced those, right? I think you got it just right, the curved forks match definitely the aesthetic you were aiming for. But was there a technical reason as well? I only ask because I rode a couple of Swifts of Peter's in Brooklyn, which had straight and curved forks, but I couldn't tell the difference in ride (they're both cro-mo?).

You must post pictures of your bike with a rack, when you fix it up...a rack is the final piece of the puzzle for my swift (I'm not sure about the resilience and 'foldability' of a seat-post attached rack)

Wavshrdr

@guydickinson - good eyes! You are the first one to notice it. It actually makes for a slightly longer wheelbase. This is a bit better for touring and long distance riding not to mention I am a big guy and it helps with my weight distribution. I personally think that they are a bit better at absorbing the shock than the straight forks as well as giving me a bit more clearance for my fenders. It also adds to the "retro" look. At some point I will probably go for a full suspended for but I need to find something that will be in keeping with the rest of the bike and so far I haven't seen as much need for it as I thought I might.

I don't think there was a single part on the bike I didn't sweat the details. I am sure Peter got tired of talking with me at times but from every bearing to the spokes I went over with him to make that if it was worth upgrading I would do it. I even went with a ramped and pinned chainrings in case I every add a front derailleur at some point in the future. In some areas he truly felt that upgrades weren't worth the cost and others he thought my choices were probably the best upgrades you could make for the money.

Today I may try my performance bike rack (I bought it there but I don't know what brand it is and it's not QR but it is very sturdy and has supported my daughter riding on it at times. It has 4 allen head screws and I always keep a tool for it and I can remove it in about 30 seconds and on my Dahons it doesn't affect the fold and I don't think it will on the Swift.

BruceMetras

Wav!!.. nicely done! Glad you're pleased with the look and ride quality.. hard to express in words how good these bikes are on the road... before you re-invent the wheel with the tensioner, have you seen THIS? Might work great for you as it handles a 20t gear difference! Also comes in Black, Silver, Red, and ..... (maybe for you) gold!

Too bad you're so far east, I'd be fun to get together... maybe even sponser an invitational folder tour where we supply all the bikes..haha

Bruce

Wavshrdr

@BruceMetras - LOL on supplying the bike for a get together. Between us I am sure would could give quite a few people test rides. I am going to check out the tensioner too. I found that today it was easy to go from the big to little chain ring by just tapping it with my foot. I can easily downshift that way. It didn't take many tries to get it down. I'll probably order one when I get some free time.

Some of you asked about the racks that will work. Following are a few photos of the Trans It rack I got from Performance Bike which as you will see goes quite nicely on the big seatpost (Dahon sized 34mm). It also has the benefit of moving fore and aft which keeps my panniers from hitting my fit. It will move about 1.5" or so. I have it in the most rearward position which may look odd to some of you but you can move it up so it looks more at home. I have big feet so I keep it in the rear position. I have my Banjo Bros. bag on there which has fold down panniers but it also works quite well with my Trek and Sunrise grocery bag panniers.

Also you will see one of my 3 watt LED lights on the handlebars. It is very compact but bright with good beam pattern. It has a high/low switch and I can easily take it off the handlebars to work on my bike. I can ride pretty well with one of them but with 2 I can ride pretty fast. Don't let the size full you. It is BRIGHT and has a great reflector for its side with good even coverage. You will also see my Thudbuster mounted with the Brooks saddle. It doesn't look as odd together as I thought it first might. Also I have my little LED taillight mounted on the seat post but when I have the bag at night I move it to the rear of the bag. Today it was raining so the bike is pretty dirty. I just got back from a 12 mile ride in the rain. Much better than I thought it would be.

I still need to mount my bar ends, swap brakes from R<>L like a motorcycle, mirrors, cyclometer, GPS and a few other goodies I have planned. I think these little items will finish it off nicely. More I ride it the more I love it. I think the gearing is spot on for my area but if it was flatter I'll need to go to the 14T rear. I absolutely love the rear hub at this point. Gear changes are smooth, faster than derailleur and I can easily shift going up hills and of course coming to a quick stop at a light and being able to shift at a stop is sweet! This is one fast little bike and surprisingly comfy to begin with but the Thudbuster got it exactly where I want it. I may play with tires a bit but the Schwalbes did pretty good on my mixed, rain, snow, ice and mud today. I had some dry spots and they still seem pretty fast.

On a side note, anyone know how I can paste a thumbnail here with just a link to the main photos so everyone doesn't have to download my entire images? I did try and keep the file sizes reasonable but big images so people can actually see the detail on the bike.