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Originally Posted by Diode100
(Post 15148125)
... would be like buying an 8-track to get a feel as to how an iPod would perform.
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Originally Posted by Diode100
(Post 15148125)
A 1980's Dahon is not a reasonably modern folder, whilst it has a more sophisticated fold that a Twenty, as a bike it is no real improvement over a twenty, and it lags a very very long way behind current small wheeled folding technology. The real improvements that have come though on folders are de facto the frame and folding mechanisms, and the battle to manage the compromises required to produce a good riding bike that will fold into a conveniently small package without an unreasonable weight penalty. Getting a Dahon Californian to get an inkling as to how (for instance) a Swift or a Pacific Reach stand up would be like buying an 8-track to get a feel as to how an iPod would perform.
I'd dropped out of road cycling for 25+ years at one point, and I mean completely. When I came back, first thing the kid at the bike shop had to explain to me was why all those bikes were badged LeMond. I left cycling hearing rumors about a couple of manufacturers actually putting a sixth cog on the freewheel, came back to 10-speed brifters. The year and a half spent catching up was fun. I can see I'm about to do it all over again. |
"it wasnt intended as an insult. i assumed she was joking.."
No offence baby, this is the Folding forum. Everything in it is ludicrous. :crash: Did someone mention 8-tracks? |
Originally Posted by sykerocker
(Post 15143545)
I normally live in the Classic & Vintage section, but my needs this time have me looking for a different level of advice. To put it simply, I'm starting to look for my first folder since that Raleigh Twenty with the three speed Benelux/Huret/Sturmy-Archer setup I used forty years ago to get to and from work in Erie, PA. And things have obviously changed - a lot.
You need another Raleigh Twenty and with your own shop and skills you can tweak that vintage 20 to your heart's content. My almost stock Raleigh 20 is a joy now that it has alloy wheels and better braking. http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...12rtwenty1.JPG And as for tweaking... :D http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...restrocks2.JPG |
" My almost stock Raleigh 20 is a joy now that it has alloy wheels and better braking."
Oh God, no, please no. :bang: You know that sykerocker is going to do this, don't you? Or: Bag A Bickerton |
Originally Posted by snafu21
(Post 15149930)
" My almost stock Raleigh 20 is a joy now that it has alloy wheels and better braking."
Oh God, no, please no. :bang: You know that sykerocker is going to do this, don't you? :D |
^^^ although he did say "I sold my Raleigh Sports to buy the Twenty, and there were moments I wished I hadn't."
I'm kinda taken with the helicopter in the Bickerton ad. I'd probably get that, and throw the bike away. |
4 Attachment(s)
i think the idea here was that he wanted to try something newer for his relatively short commute and also be able to store the bike near his desk in the office for around 300usd:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=293253http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=293254http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=293255http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=293256 |
I also have a modern, albeit generic folder, that I keep in the boot of the car as it is lighter and folds up smaller than my 20's which fit better on the roof rails... it is nice enough bike but does not put the same smile on my face as my 20's.
It cost me $40.00 used and I refitted it with better tyres, brake levers, and drive train parts for a minimal cost. |
And Sixty Fiver brings up the big question (which has snafu21 cringing).
Of course I've considered getting another Raleigh Twenty. Lots of good memories, I've got a perfectly good Benelux Model 7 conversion kit sitting on the parts shelf and only need a long SA axle (which I believe Harris Cyclery still carries), and yes I love riding vintage. Of my twelve road bikes, only three are brifters, with three others being downtube indexed. Everything else is As God Intended going back to a Raleigh Lenton with coil spring/reverse action rear derailleur and "suicide shift" front. And it's not the lowest mileage bike in the stable, either. The inevitable single mtb I own is no suspension and cantilever brakes. All I really need for another Twenty to work for me is a longer seatpost (and there's a mention of Kalloy on the first page). However . . . . . . . . Have you seen what people are asking for when Twenties come up for sale anymore? The last three years I've been to the Westminster, MD swap meet, I've run across a Twenty for sale. The cheapest one was $250.00 (and it was a rusted wreck). The truly clean one had an asking of $450.00 And nobody was particularly in a mood to negotiate. After all, they had "collector's items". Now, I consider the Twenty a fair approximation for a Raleigh Sports of the same vintage. A bit less in performance set off by the convenience. In the Richmond, VA area one of my 3-speed roadster rebuilds (we're talking complete tear down, refurbish and clean just about every part, and rebuild) goes for $125.00. A really clean British roadster will bring $175-200.00. A screamingly mint one, stored properly, will get about $250.00. And I'm willing to do those kinds of prices on a Twenty. However, if I'm going to start talking $300.00 and higher, I'd like to be dealing with more modern technology and the result of 35+ years of development. And, I'm guessing (please correct me if I'm wrong), that one of those $200-300.00 G. Dragon's and Tobukaeru's will give me about the same (or better?) performance than an original Twenty. I'd love another Twenty - even if I don't ride it often and it becomes part of the collection. But there's a price limit on that kind of desire. And other than the warm, fuzzy, acid-flashback memories; I'm under no illusions of what a Twenty is capable of. Late thought: Also, to my eyes, a Twenty is much prettier than anything being made today. Then, so again, is my '69 Triumph Bonneville cafe racer. |
The most I have ever paid for a Twenty here was $100.00 and people are still giving them away... when I got home today a Phillip's Twenty was on my doorstep and do not know if it is a gift or was left for repair.
This British Twenty (451 wheels) was $100.00... I changed the saddle and grips, refreshed the tyres and changed out the rack. It is my youngest daughter's bicycle and she lets me borrow it from time to time. http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/basil1.JPG |
It was mentioned 2nd post:D
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'And Sixty Fiver brings up the big question (which has snafu21 cringing).'
No! The horror! Actually,there's a lot of love in those R20 re-builds, but, ya know, hydroformed 7005 alloy does it for me. These are pretty: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7798134...n/photostream/ |
Originally Posted by Dynocoaster
(Post 15150920)
It was mentioned 2nd post:D
;) |
Originally Posted by sykerocker
(Post 15150650)
I'd love another Twenty - even if I don't ride it often and it becomes part of the collection. But there's a price limit on that kind of desire. And other than the warm, fuzzy, acid-flashback memories; I'm under no illusions of what a Twenty is capable of. Late thought: Also, to my eyes, a Twenty is much prettier than anything being made today. Then, so again, is my '69 Triumph Bonneville cafe racer.
a 69 Bonnie, boring, but if it was a 59 pre-unit in polychromatic blue and silver, then i would be impressed. |
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Hmmm, circus-camo, I kinda like it.
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Originally Posted by Diode100
(Post 15151446)
there is a Twenty over the road from me that has been abandoned, been there for months, ripe for shipping worldwide. The Twenty is prettier than modern bikes because its a simpler and purer design, it only folds in half, unlike current folding designs which own a lot to Transformer cartoons.
a 69 Bonnie, boring, but if it was a 59 pre-unit in polychromatic blue and silver, then i would be impressed. |
Originally Posted by Diode100
(Post 15151446)
there is a Twenty over the road from me that has been abandoned, been there for months, ripe for shipping worldwide.
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Originally Posted by sykerocker
(Post 15143545)
I normally live in the Classic & Vintage section, but my needs this time have me looking for a different level of advice. To put it simply, I'm starting to look for my first folder since that Raleigh Twenty with the three speed Benelux/Huret/Sturmy-Archer setup I used forty years ago to get to and from work in Erie, PA. And things have obviously changed - a lot.
I'm 62 years old, 5'10-1/2", and usually weigh in about 175 lbs. I ride a lot (6700 miles last year) and have a good stable of road bikes at home. Plus . . . . . I keep a 1968 Ranger (rebadged Phillips) 3-speed roadster at my place of employment for lunch time errand running, daily bank runs (I'm the company bookkeeper), and whatever else comes up during the course of the workday. The company (a motorcycle shop) has always been good about me storing one bike or another at the office. However, I've noticed my bike is getting in the way of the service department personnel no matter where I store it, although they've been kind enough not to complain. I figure that a folder kept in my office would be a lot more convenient to everyone concerned. Daily use is normally about 5-6 miles. It's a 3.85 mile round trip for the daily bank run, terrain isn't flat, but a Sturmey AW geared (I believe) 46/23 works quite well. I'm using the old classic commuter setup with a Pletscher alloy rack over the rear fender with a couple of medium sized saddlebags hanging off them - although at one time I was using a cloth trunk strapped to the rack itself. Anything like that works fine - I do have a briefcase that I can strap like a courier's bag, but have never really been crazy about that alternative. I'm open to ideas, both new and vintage. I have my own bike shop, and everything in the stable is my work. That Raleigh Twenty was the last time I ever bought a bike complete and rideable out the door (and I unboxed and set it up, as my employer was the local Schwinn/Raleigh dealer). I missed out on a pair of ratty old Dahons at the Westminster swap meet last year that I would have had no problem into putting back into one beautiful riding bike. I'm open to anyone's preferences into what they think would fill the bill for me. And, occasionally, I wouldn't mind taking the bike on the Amtrak into DC for a Saturday and use it to bounce around museums - although that's a lesser consideration. I would highly suggest you go for a new bike, because the beauty of technology is that it makes newer bikes ride much better and respond better than older designs. Most folder bikes in the 16" to 20" wheel sizes fold and store really well in most offices. I am more in favour for the 20" wheels because of the ride factor. Bigger wheels roll better than smaller wheels, unless you need the smaller wheels for commuting with trains, buses and ferries in the peakest of rush hour. In that case, the former Dahon Curve 16 or the Brompton fits this bill. Otherwise, the 20" wheel bikes I think will serve you better. There are a lot of makers of 20" bikes from Tern, Dahon, Bike Friday etc... and they all make fine bikes. Price matters ofcourse and as you are a bike shop owner, I'm sure you know that price consummates quality. You did not mention how much you are willing to pay though, but I think since you're a shop owner, price is not a factor in your purchase equation? You mentioned Amtrak. Amtrak considers folding bikes as carry-on, so this is a plus for you. Plus folding bikes are more advantages when you are boarding buses like the "BoltBus" where you can actually stick your bike into the luggage carrier without a box. A derailleur hanger protector is highly recommended to be installed at all time if you plan to do this as well as with Amtrak, and I have it on my Dahon Mu SL. Luggage carrier. One of the problems using a rear carrier is the fact that most folding bikes have a shorter wheelbase that do not facilitate holding normal saddle bags without incurring heel strikes. Now some racks designed for smaller wheels offer what is called a rear off-set to move the panniers, but I dislike this method because it means you are shifting the center of gravity rearward causing ride quality issues. Rather than sporting a normal rack, I use something called the Dahon Arclite rear rack. It's a low to the ground rack and is light. Keeps the center of gravity of the load where it should be while maintaining good riding stability. But you need to get a different bag for this. There are a number of solutions for this. Ortlieb front roller classics (front small panniers) will work on the Arclite as well as the REI Gotham Rack Trunk bag. I highly recommend the Gotham Rack Trunk bag because it can expand outwards to provide 2 side panniers expanding your storage capacity close to 25L, which is equivalent to 2 front Ortlieb roller classics. With that capacity, you can literally do hotel tours on Amtrak no problem. For my rear bag, I am using the Arkel Tail Rider (8L) and the Vaude QR seatpost bag (8L) (I either use one of them or both -- I have this flexibility depending on length of the motel/BB/hotel tours I do) . If you do want to add to more capacity to your bike however, add a front rack to the bike and keep using smaller bags to maintain bike stability. With my Dahon front rack and the front bags I use for rainy tours would be the Ortlieb front roller classics. For dryer days, I use a pair of older version Serratus backpack pannier (can convert to a backpack but not so good) and a newer 2012 version of the same MEC 50 daypack backpack pannier which can be converted to a capable day hiking backpack when I use it for either hiking or going to museums. These are small panniers in sizes of 14 to 18L, not those gigantic 35 to 43L versions I do have but reserved by actual loaded bike touring on my steel touring bike. A tip for you if you want to tour with saddle bags. DO NOT EVER place big bags at the rear. Put them on the front. This will reduce aerodynamic drag as trunk bags at the rear keep your aerodynamic profile good. Besides with 20" wheels, you are not rolling as well as 700c bikes so anything efficient will help you roll better forward. Ask me more if you need more info how to ride to work or tour with a folder. Thanks.. |
I'm not folding My Bike FridayPocket Llama, as its a travel bike not a constantly folded multimodal bike ..
Got a Brompton earlier added a Mountain drive to the AW3 so low in low range is 18" , high in high range is an 80" 6 widely spaced ratios, which, naturally are closer together in low range.. 54 (12.6) x 15t on the hub. |
I came home last night and the bike faeries left me a Phillip's Twenty... it was waiting for me on the step and now I have a matching pair of these having bought another P20 over the summer for $75.00.
They were an exceptionally popular bicycle here in their day and my P20 was actually part of a large fleet of 20's that worked for Shell oil here and facility transport. |
Originally Posted by pacificcyclist
(Post 15152127)
Skyerocker,
I would highly suggest you go for a new bike, because the beauty of technology is that it makes newer bikes ride much better and respond better than older designs. Most folder bikes in the 16" to 20" wheel sizes fold and store really well in most offices. I am more in favour for the 20" wheels because of the ride factor. Bigger wheels roll better than smaller wheels, unless you need the smaller wheels for commuting with trains, buses and ferries in the peakest of rush hour. In that case, the former Dahon Curve 16 or the Brompton fits this bill. Otherwise, the 20" wheel bikes I think will serve you better. There are a lot of makers of 20" bikes from Tern, Dahon, Bike Friday etc... and they all make fine bikes. Price matters ofcourse and as you are a bike shop owner, I'm sure you know that price consummates quality. You did not mention how much you are willing to pay though, but I think since you're a shop owner, price is not a factor in your purchase equation? You mentioned Amtrak. Amtrak considers folding bikes as carry-on, so this is a plus for you. Plus folding bikes are more advantages when you are boarding buses like the "BoltBus" where you can actually stick your bike into the luggage carrier without a box. A derailleur hanger protector is highly recommended to be installed at all time if you plan to do this as well as with Amtrak, and I have it on my Dahon Mu SL. Luggage carrier. One of the problems using a rear carrier is the fact that most folding bikes have a shorter wheelbase that do not facilitate holding normal saddle bags without incurring heel strikes. Now some racks designed for smaller wheels offer what is called a rear off-set to move the panniers, but I dislike this method because it means you are shifting the center of gravity rearward causing ride quality issues. Rather than sporting a normal rack, I use something called the Dahon Arclite rear rack. It's a low to the ground rack and is light. Keeps the center of gravity of the load where it should be while maintaining good riding stability. But you need to get a different bag for this. There are a number of solutions for this. Ortlieb front roller classics (front small panniers) will work on the Arclite as well as the REI Gotham Rack Trunk bag. I highly recommend the Gotham Rack Trunk bag because it can expand outwards to provide 2 side panniers expanding your storage capacity close to 25L, which is equivalent to 2 front Ortlieb roller classics. With that capacity, you can literally do hotel tours on Amtrak no problem. For my rear bag, I am using the Arkel Tail Rider (8L) and the Vaude QR seatpost bag (8L) (I either use one of them or both -- I have this flexibility depending on length of the motel/BB/hotel tours I do) . If you do want to add to more capacity to your bike however, add a front rack to the bike and keep using smaller bags to maintain bike stability. With my Dahon front rack and the front bags I use for rainy tours would be the Ortlieb front roller classics. For dryer days, I use a pair of older version Serratus backpack pannier (can convert to a backpack but not so good) and a newer 2012 version of the same MEC 50 daypack backpack pannier which can be converted to a capable day hiking backpack when I use it for either hiking or going to museums. These are small panniers in sizes of 14 to 18L, not those gigantic 35 to 43L versions I do have but reserved by actual loaded bike touring on my steel touring bike. A tip for you if you want to tour with saddle bags. DO NOT EVER place big bags at the rear. Put them on the front. This will reduce aerodynamic drag as trunk bags at the rear keep your aerodynamic profile good. Besides with 20" wheels, you are not rolling as well as 700c bikes so anything efficient will help you roll better forward. Ask me more if you need more info how to ride to work or tour with a folder. Thanks.. When I mentioned panniers, it was more in terms of what I'm using on the current three speed, because I fully recognize this little matter of height of the rear rack off the road. Plus wheelbase. On a folder, I'd probably go with a canvas/fabric/ripstock top box on top of the carrier for carrying bank bags ro whatever else is necessary in the day to day duties of my mundane job. I've already got one of those on the 21-speed hybrid that I use as my commuter from home and am quite happy with it. Back in the day, I had one of the huge Raleigh canvas/leather seat packs strapped to the Brooks on my Twenty which worked quite well. Other question: Just how good are those $150-300.00 folders I'm seeing popping up on eBay? Obviously Chinese and never heard of the brands (assuming the brands even matter). I assume they're not even playing in the same ballpark as a Dahon, Bike Friday, etc., but are they actually viable bicycles or just the modern day equivalent jokes of those U-shaped frame folders you could buy 40 years ago that weren't worth riding out of the parking lot. This discussion has been as invaluable to me as when I discovered Sheldon's web pages back when I got back into cycling and was doing the crash catchup on everything that I'd missed in the intervening years (I did the entire website in less than three weeks). Thank you all. Game plan is the Westminster, MD swap meet in four weeks and I'm probably going to start looking seriously there. The farm show building its in has a huge area to try riding bikes that you're looking at, which is nice if it snows. Again. Oh yeah, price matters. At present Syke's Cyclery is a small repair shop out in the wilds of rural Virginia, about 35 miles from Richmond. Repairs and restorations only, I haven't considered going to a showroom and new bikes. I've been doing repairs and refurbishing used bikes for four years now, it's a hobby business but has made me a nice little bit of mad money. For 2013 I'm taking it legitimate, county business license, tax collection, accounts with bicycle parts wholesalers, etc. The latter is the reason for the going legit efforts - the hobby has gotten too big to live without a regular source of wholesale replacement parts. |
20" isnt "better" than 16... such nonsense.. :P
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There is a Dahon frame for sale
http://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/3403908619.html |
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