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Thoughts and opinions.......

Old 01-26-13, 08:00 PM
  #1  
DTG
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Thoughts and opinions.......

I'm in the market for a new bike and this time around I want to buy a folder more so for commuting in the rain here in Portland but also being able to take it up to Seattle, Vancouver BC, etc in the back of my car to just get out and go. Anyway, I've looked at and test ridden a few folders from Dahon, Tern, Giant. I have to say they all ride nice but I fell in love with the Tern Verge S11i because it has lots of things I want on a folder from the 11 speed internal gear hub, chain covering, fenders. I know for the price it's spendy and most people would say get a Brompton but I'm not a big fan of 16 inch wheels. That being said, just looking for thoughts/opinions from anyone. Internal gear hub with at least 8 gears is preferred. For some reason the low gear on most 7 speeds weren't geared right while riding downhill. Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-26-13, 08:28 PM
  #2  
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If you've found something that you like, I don't see any reason to not go with that. If you want to test-ride a brompton before you buy another, just so you know that's not what you want, that's fine, too.

Cheers,
Charles
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Old 01-26-13, 09:24 PM
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Thor has the Verge s11i for $1599 shipped
https://www.thorusa.com/accessories/oneoff.htm
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Old 01-26-13, 10:48 PM
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If you like the Verge S11i then you should get it. But honestly, if I wanted to spend that kind of money (especially if I lived only ~100 miles from Eugene) I'd be contacting Bike Friday.
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Old 01-26-13, 10:59 PM
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+1 with emphasis.
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Old 01-26-13, 11:02 PM
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A Tern for $1,599.00? Test ride a Brompton or a Bike Friday first as suggested above. I have both and would not settle for anything less. :-)
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Old 01-27-13, 01:31 AM
  #7  
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It's a lucky man who knows what he wants.

If you've fallen in love with a bike that has the attributes that you're looking for, including the finest hub gear in the world, then you should buy it.

You want a bike to commute and pootle, so you dont need a small fold and you dont need long distance touring capability, so forget Brompton and Bike Friday, you dont need the strengths they play to, and neither could provide the spec you are looking for at the price of the Tern.
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Old 01-27-13, 02:34 AM
  #8  
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"For some reason the low gear on most 7 speeds weren't geared right while riding downhill."

What they said: If you've found the bike that suits you, then buy it. We're all different.

None of the bike manufacturers can fit gear ranges to suit everyone. Dahon keep the gear range toward the 'granny end ' (me) on their utility city bikes (Speed, Vitesse etc) but up it (or extend it) on the sporty models.

The Tern Verge gear range is 26" - 106", better at both ends than many of the other folders. Brompton six-speed standard gearing is (was?) 33-99.5 gear inches, The similar Dahon P11 is 'only' 26" - 80".

Tern is very much a 21st Century bike, hydroformed frame, Kinetix rims, and a BioLogic Joule 3 dynamo. All of that is good. Getting all of that and an Alfine hub gear into a bike which weighs only 12.3Kg is even better.

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Old 01-27-13, 09:35 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
If you like the Verge S11i then you should get it. But honestly, if I wanted to spend that kind of money (especially if I lived only ~100 miles from Eugene) I'd be contacting Bike Friday.
I stick with my original statement. That being said, it's worth looking at Bike Friday since you are right there.

I personally like looking at lots of options and then deciding. This drives my wife nuts. You need to decide how much shopping/riding you want to do before buying.

Cheers,
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Old 01-27-13, 12:20 PM
  #10  
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Have a Rohloff hub in my Bike Friday.. their new Silk a 20" wheel, looks like a reasonable fold..
add the folding steering mast..

the Belt drive is not required.. really.. math : buying a lot of chains before the cost comes up to 1 belt.

un beatable advantage Bike friday 8 sizes, all other folders ... one.
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Old 01-27-13, 01:04 PM
  #11  
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That Tern S11i is awfully classy...one of the very best looking folders in my opinion. It's a very refined package.

It may be worthwhile, since a tiny fold isn't the main focus, to look at the 24" wheeled S11i, the Eclipse.

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Old 01-27-13, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Have a Rohloff hub in my Bike Friday.. their new Silk a 20" wheel, looks like a reasonable fold..
add the folding steering mast..

the Belt drive is not required.. really.. math : buying a lot of chains before the cost comes up to 1 belt.

un beatable advantage Bike friday 8 sizes, all other folders ... one.
The S11i isn't belt drive, just a covered chain.
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Old 01-27-13, 02:03 PM
  #13  
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That's a nice looking folder, indeed! All the bells and whistles.

Do you know if Tern bikes tend to have the same issues that Dahon has with frame cracking and faulty locking mechanisms? I also wonder how easy it will be to order parts for them in the future. This can be a nightmare with Dahon.
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Old 01-27-13, 02:34 PM
  #14  
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If I didn't get my Brompton (the fold was important to me), then I would have probably gotten a Tern Verge S11i. It's a sharp looking bike! I have heard the aluminum Terns (and Dahons) are a bit stiff, so perhaps plan on some aftermarket suspension options.

Another option might be the Tern Link P24h - but hey! The Verge looks slick, and looks are important! Vain, but true...

But.... if you want to make sure you don't have buyer's remorse, particularly since you're going to spend $2000 (don't forget the accessories!)... try out a Brompton. There has to be a dealer somewhere nearby.
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Old 01-27-13, 02:56 PM
  #15  
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What does a base model Brompton cost in the states, a 2 or 3 speed - $1300 ?
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Old 01-27-13, 04:03 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Diode100 View Post
What does a base model Brompton cost in the states, a 2 or 3 speed - $1300 ?
The 2013 MSRPs for a black, white, orange or cobalt blue (or any combination of those) 1, 2 & 3-speed are $1,193, $1,297 and $1,297. Fenders add $88, and a front carrier block adds $24.

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Old 01-27-13, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
That's a nice looking folder, indeed! All the bells and whistles.

Do you know if Tern bikes tend to have the same issues that Dahon has with frame cracking and faulty locking mechanisms? I also wonder how easy it will be to order parts for them in the future. This can be a nightmare with Dahon.
It's reasonable to expect that any product will have some problems or irregularities. It's also reasonable to assume that Dahon, as the world's largest producer of folding bikes (by an orders of magnitude), will have have a greater total number of problems based simply on volume. I think it's irresponsible to go beyond that and suggest Dahons "tend" to have problems absent data to suggest most users have those problems.

I've not heard of any such problems with Tern.
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Old 01-27-13, 08:12 PM
  #18  
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If you don't need a super compact fold or sneak the folder into buildings, I'd pass on a Brompton.

If you're going to spend $1600, test ride more bikes. Contact a Bike Friday dealer and see if they have one for you to try.
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Old 01-27-13, 11:23 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by DTG View Post
I'm in the market for a new bike and this time around I want to buy a folder more so for commuting in the rain here in Portland but also being able to take it up to Seattle, Vancouver BC, etc in the back of my car to just get out and go. Anyway, I've looked at and test ridden a few folders from Dahon, Tern, Giant. I have to say they all ride nice but I fell in love with the Tern Verge S11i because it has lots of things I want on a folder from the 11 speed internal gear hub, chain covering, fenders. I know for the price it's spendy and most people would say get a Brompton but I'm not a big fan of 16 inch wheels. That being said, just looking for thoughts/opinions from anyone. Internal gear hub with at least 8 gears is preferred. For some reason the low gear on most 7 speeds weren't geared right while riding downhill. Thanks in advance.
DTG,

The Shimano Alfine 11 hub itself isn't cheap and that's part of the reason why the Verge S11i is so pricy. But for what you get package wise, I think it's a great deal! It has the latest frame technology compared to the other makers out there, so as long as you like the bike and what it provides you, then I say go for it. Secondly, why do you consider driving down to Seattle or Vancouver, BC (I'm from here btw)? Take the BoltBus from SW Salmon St in Portland to Seattle or Van, BC! And yes, they take bare bikes. Folders are better especially the Tern Verge. And with an IGH, no worries on bent derailleur, though I have a cheap rear derailleur protector installed on my Dahon Mu SL. This way, you let Bolt do the driving. The 11 gears on the Alfine is supposed to mimic a conventional 27 speed bike without the duplicating gears. Same with 8 speed IGH and 24 speeds.

If you want to test ride both Brompton and Tern together, Clever Cycles at Hawthorne is the store to go to.

Good luck.
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Old 01-27-13, 11:27 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
That's a nice looking folder, indeed! All the bells and whistles.

Do you know if Tern bikes tend to have the same issues that Dahon has with frame cracking and faulty locking mechanisms? I also wonder how easy it will be to order parts for them in the future. This can be a nightmare with Dahon.
No bikes designed by any human being is ever going to be immune to faults or problems. If the bike is perfect, then the human being in question who designed and manufacture this has to be 100% perfect. We know that there is no perfect human being in this planet, not even Lance A., so what's important is dealer after sales support if problems arise.
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Old 01-27-13, 11:53 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by pacificcyclist View Post
No bikes designed by any human being is ever going to be immune to faults or problems. If the bike is perfect, then the human being in question who designed and manufacture this has to be 100% perfect. We know that there is no perfect human being in this planet, not even Lance A., so what's important is dealer after sales support if problems arise.
Dahon, in my experience, is sorely lacking in the after-sales support department. That's why I'd like to know if Tern is any better. I realize it's a new company, but I'd like to hear from Tern owners about how well this outfit stands behind their products.

When I had problems getting parts for my Dahon, I was blasted on this forum by certain posters who seem to have a "the customer is always wrong" attitude and who think the company can do no wrong.

Unlike the Dahon diehards who post here, Josh Hon has recognized that Dahon does not get the job done in after-sales support and parts availability and he has pledged to improve the situation at Tern. He discussed this in a recent interview:

With so many people having joined Tern from Dahon, it’s not exactly like you’re building a bike company from the ground up. How important is it that Tern goes on to be a different kind of bicycle company? And what does that mean outside of the obvious need to differentiate your brand in the marketplace?

We did quite a lot of things well at Dahon. But there were also some things that we didn’t do well enough, and in fact, some things that we did poorly. At Tern, we want to improve on the things we did well. But we’re going to really focus hard on the things that we didn’t do well. The single area that needs the most focus is service. I think many Dahon dealers would tell you that getting parts for service was pretty difficult and/or slow. We agree wholeheartedly. And that’s why we’re setting up service centers in Europe (Germany), Taiwan and the U.S. These service centers will stock all of the key custom components that are found on our bikes. Dealers who need to service a bike should order parts from the local distributor, but if the distributor doesn’t have the part available for whatever reason, we’ll be able to airfreight parts out within two days from any of the service centers. Service will also be a lot easier because of the streamlined product range. We have a lot fewer SKUs and custom parts. If there is a custom part, it’ll be used across the range. So, for instance, we’ve only got two types of frame joints and handleposts across the entire range, so stocking these parts will be much easier. It’s the In-N-Out Burger analogy: if you only offer hamburgers and cheeseburgers on your menu, it’s much less likely that you are going to run out of ingredients. As for differentiation, we’re not too concerned with that at this point. Anybody who rides one of the new Tern bikes will know how we are differentiated. We are that confident.

https://16incheswestofpeoria.wordpres...-n-out-burger/

Last edited by Ekdog; 01-27-13 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 01-28-13, 03:42 AM
  #22  
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"I was blasted on this forum by certain posters who seem to have a "the customer is always wrong" attitude and who think the company can do no wrong."

That's because you're a consistent trouble-maker who takes every opportunity to bad-mouth Dahon by posting irrelevant and potentially libelous posts disguised as opinion, in an attempt to generate sympathy for your own prejudices. As in the above. When challenged you become personally abusive.

You've already been warned out of one thread by a moderator for it, yet you continue here by posting two items of absolutely no relevance to the original query.

You got a beef about a company, take it to them. You're doing no-one any favours on here, and diluting your own credibility with every post.

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Old 01-28-13, 08:33 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
"I was blasted on this forum by certain posters who seem to have a "the customer is always wrong" attitude and who think the company can do no wrong."

That's because you're a consistent trouble-maker who takes every opportunity to bad-mouth Dahon by posting irrelevant and potentially libelous posts disguised as opinion, in an attempt to generate sympathy for your own prejudices. As in the above. When challenged you become personally abusive.

You've already been warned out of one thread by a moderator for it, yet you continue here by posting two items of absolutely no relevance to the original query.

You got a beef about a company, take it to them. You're doing no-one any favours on here, and diluting your own credibility with every post.
"Potentially libelous posts"?

The OP asked about Dahon and Tern bicycles, among others. I hardly think it is irrelevant to bring up possible problems with these products, unless you see this as a cheerleading section for those companies. Are we to give only positive opinions? By the by, what did you think of Mr. Hon's remarks? Do you consider them "potentially libelous"? It sounds like he's being honest and wants to improve the situation with his new company.
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Old 01-28-13, 01:11 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Ekdog View Post
Dahon, in my experience, is sorely lacking in the after-sales support department. That's why I'd like to know if Tern is any better. I realize it's a new company, but I'd like to hear from Tern owners about how well this outfit stands behind their products.

When I had problems getting parts for my Dahon, I was blasted on this forum by certain posters who seem to have a "the customer is always wrong" attitude and who think the company can do no wrong.

Unlike the Dahon diehards who post here, Josh Hon has recognized that Dahon does not get the job done in after-sales support and parts availability and he has pledged to improve the situation at Tern. He discussed this in a recent interview:

With so many people having joined Tern from Dahon, it’s not exactly like you’re building a bike company from the ground up. How important is it that Tern goes on to be a different kind of bicycle company? And what does that mean outside of the obvious need to differentiate your brand in the marketplace?

We did quite a lot of things well at Dahon. But there were also some things that we didn’t do well enough, and in fact, some things that we did poorly. At Tern, we want to improve on the things we did well. But we’re going to really focus hard on the things that we didn’t do well. The single area that needs the most focus is service. I think many Dahon dealers would tell you that getting parts for service was pretty difficult and/or slow. We agree wholeheartedly. And that’s why we’re setting up service centers in Europe (Germany), Taiwan and the U.S. These service centers will stock all of the key custom components that are found on our bikes. Dealers who need to service a bike should order parts from the local distributor, but if the distributor doesn’t have the part available for whatever reason, we’ll be able to airfreight parts out within two days from any of the service centers. Service will also be a lot easier because of the streamlined product range. We have a lot fewer SKUs and custom parts. If there is a custom part, it’ll be used across the range. So, for instance, we’ve only got two types of frame joints and handleposts across the entire range, so stocking these parts will be much easier. It’s the In-N-Out Burger analogy: if you only offer hamburgers and cheeseburgers on your menu, it’s much less likely that you are going to run out of ingredients. As for differentiation, we’re not too concerned with that at this point. Anybody who rides one of the new Tern bikes will know how we are differentiated. We are that confident.

https://16incheswestofpeoria.wordpres...-n-out-burger/
Unlike you, I buy a folding bike to ride and travel and I don't over think nor care about brands and political motivation some people have on the forum to promote such brands.
A bicycle is meant to be ridden, not discussed nor admired like a statue or painting. If that's what you're after, peace brother!
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Old 01-28-13, 11:40 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by pacificcyclist View Post
Unlike you, I buy a folding bike to ride and travel and I don't over think nor care about brands and political motivation some people have on the forum to promote such brands.
A bicycle is meant to be ridden, not discussed nor admired like a statue or painting. If that's what you're after, peace brother!
Political motivation?

Come now, let's be real. If you didn't like discussing bikes, you wouldn't be posting to this forum. This is where folks come to do just that. I love riding, too. That's why it's so frustrating for me to have lost months of cycling time waiting for parts for my Dahon Speed to arrive. In fact, I'd love to be able to use it for my commute this afternoon. Too bad it's sitting in the corner with a cracked frame!

I know it bothers you and a few of the others who own Dahons to hear about problems with these bikes, but I think we need to be honest about our experiences with them and avoid covering up or soft-pedalling their defects. I'm having a Brompton M6R built at the moment, and I can assure you I'll be honest about how it works out for me, good or bad. Why would I do otherwise? These companies charge a lot of money for these bikes, and we customers have a right to demand reliabilty and good customer service.

Last edited by Ekdog; 01-29-13 at 02:45 AM. Reason: Awkward wording.
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