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Titanium Swift frame, anyone interested?

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Titanium Swift frame, anyone interested?

Old 09-09-15, 08:11 AM
  #376  
pibach
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
Not exactly what you wanted but fairly close. I can't lower my seatpost becasue of the bottle cage I have attached there.
Thank's a lot!
I thought that this fold would come in handy for commuting, as you can still wheel the bike (without the help of tiny rollers). Isn't it?

As far as I know, Swift, Django Flik and Mobiky Genius are the only folders which can do that (except some microfolders).

Always wondering why nobody ever mentioned this in the Swift thread (maybe I missed it?).

Might be nice to have that integrated in the frame design somehow. Different brake stay?

Last edited by pibach; 09-09-15 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 09-09-15, 03:06 PM
  #377  
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Is it possible to post a link to a big pic from one's Google photo account? I am struggling, the only way forwards for me is to download my pic, upload to photobucket and post an image link.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
DSC_1234.jpg (94.0 KB, 682 views)

Last edited by jur; 09-09-15 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 09-09-15, 07:07 PM
  #378  
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
Is it possible to post a link to a big pic from one's Google photo account?
Yes.
google+
pictures
share
Link

Copy&Paste the link here into img tag.

Works fine for me.
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Old 09-26-15, 05:13 AM
  #379  
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My son who is a keen photographer took some pics of my Ti Swift 20.











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Old 09-26-15, 07:05 AM
  #380  
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Beautiful work and just a fantastic looking bike.
Jim
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Old 09-26-15, 10:06 AM
  #381  
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Beautiful bike Jur. I missed it if you listed components and such. What housing and cables are you using? Am I correct in assuming that they are higher performance? Are they more difficult to adjust for different lengths and such?
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Old 09-26-15, 11:24 AM
  #382  
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
My son who is a keen photographer took some pics of my Ti Swift 20.
absolutely gorgeous machine. i've saved these pics to my hard drive in a folder labelled, "ultimate bikes". thanks for sharing the whole process with everyone here.
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Old 09-26-15, 11:26 AM
  #383  
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Beautiful bike Jur. I missed it if you listed components and such. What housing and cables are you using? Am I correct in assuming that they are higher performance? Are they more difficult to adjust for different lengths and such?
i think those cables are by Alligator ilink.
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Old 09-26-15, 06:08 PM
  #384  
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great looking bike, jur. what cables did you use? thank you.
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Old 09-27-15, 02:44 AM
  #385  
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Alligator iLink indeed. Silver with an attempt at golden tips... Got to fix symmetry but that is a big exercise.
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Old 09-28-15, 12:12 AM
  #386  
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Nice photos and a very classy looking bike! I need to take some more of mine, but I suppose I would have to clean it up first. I really like the way it rides. Way less road chatter than my carbon-fiber Blue Norcross on gravel and dirt roads. Any hints as to how you got the bike pix without anything obviously keeping the bike from falling over or is it just Photoshop edits...
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Old 09-28-15, 12:19 AM
  #387  
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Yep photoshop. Son did it. We first tried the balance-snap-grab technique, then he said don't worry I just amputate the hand.
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Old 09-28-15, 02:30 AM
  #388  
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Some bikes have such aesthetic qualities as to become works of art...and this one certainly does so. Spare...elegant and beautiful as well as being supremely practical. I love it and it stands as a tribute to its creator.
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Old 11-08-15, 08:55 PM
  #389  
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Passed the 1,000 km mark on my Ti Swift today. I really love the bike and how well it rides. As you can see it now sports fenders, rack, rack trunk bag, and a real headlight. Autumn here in western Washington means fairly frequent rains. I have done some longer rides on it and the bike is a very comfortable crusing machine. Great for poor road surfaces, feels stable and predictable on gravel/dirt roads.

Unlike many folders, this one has a long wheelbase and a forgiving ride. I hit 36.6 miles per hour/58.9 km per hour on a downhill today without really trying. My top gear is about 95" so spin out sooner than on my road bikes with larger top gears. These are just great bikes.

Thanks to Jur for making it all happen!
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Old 11-09-15, 08:31 PM
  #390  
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That's great that you enjoy the bike so! So do I. I have the 2 versions, one as a 2-speed Automatix wet weather bike, the 2nd as a 20-speed go-fast.

I came off my 2-speed last week, over-cooked a corner in slight drizzle. Nice bruise on my hip, but no damage to the bike.
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Old 11-10-15, 05:59 AM
  #391  
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You probably mean you bruised your pelvis Jur.....not your hip.
Engineers like precision.....
Nice bike,love the look. Would be great if other manufactures offered what customers demand or want.

I sent an email to atb (mezzo) requesting more gear options and didn't receive much in way of reply. I sent one to a pannier manufacter asking if model suitable for a mezzo and they said it may scrape on the floor in corners! No effort to measure or check heel clearence dimensions.

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Old 12-04-15, 10:24 AM
  #392  
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hi jur,
first, i'm mesmerized by your ti marvel. thanks for bringing this into light of day! i may wish to buy one and have some preliminary curiosities. let's start here: why did folks opt for these longer top tube variations? more specifically: is there something about your ti re-design which argues for a longer top tube; or is this modification something you'd make even to an aluminium/steel swift if you could (e.g. for enhanced stability)? if i was perfectly happy with my (aluminum) swift's ride qualities would i reasonably request my ti version to have matching-original geometry?

thanks,
chris


Originally Posted by jur View Post
So far, all except one case took longer top tubes. Of those, PineCone took 590mm, the rest are 575mm. Nothing is adjusted so the wheelbase becomes longer. It is much more stable than the Xootr Swift, I can ride no-hands and take my jacket off. With the Xootr that won't happen. I will weave all over the way.
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Old 12-04-15, 03:09 PM
  #393  
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Originally Posted by icdb15 View Post
hi jur,
first, i'm mesmerized by your ti marvel. thanks for bringing this into light of day! i may wish to buy one and have some preliminary curiosities. let's start here: why did folks opt for these longer top tube variations? more specifically: is there something about your ti re-design which argues for a longer top tube; or is this modification something you'd make even to an aluminium/steel swift if you could (e.g. for enhanced stability)? if i was perfectly happy with my (aluminum) swift's ride qualities would i reasonably request my ti version to have matching-original geometry?

thanks,
chris
Simple: The Xootr Swift has a 550mm top tube, ie is size medium. Longer top tubes are necessary if you need a bigger bike. I am 5'10 and need something closer to large.
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Old 12-06-15, 10:37 AM
  #394  
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thanks for indulging me jur—you could have more curtly answered, "read the thread." (i now see you've already said that at post 312. also intrigued by the maneuverability vs stability dynamic [351] and how that plays out here; along with the speculative no-hands riding sub-branch.) at 6'1" i've ridden a xootr swift alu for ~5 years. the only sensitive dimension for me has been handlebar height as determined by steerer tube length + stem combo. i'm delighted to see extended vertical range in this dept as suggested in 263.

could you say how your first frame's hinge was "messed up" as received (122); and how you fixed that please? & same for the seatpost alignment issue? i ask as one who might be interested in your offering of that frame + triangle for sale—while also curious if another bulk order (the second of which apparently fell through) might be still under consideration by some here.

thanks,
chris

Originally Posted by jur View Post
Simple: The Xootr Swift has a 550mm top tube, ie is size medium. Longer top tubes are necessary if you need a bigger bike. I am 5'10 and need something closer to large.

Last edited by icdb15; 12-06-15 at 10:39 AM. Reason: add reference
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Old 12-06-15, 09:09 PM
  #395  
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Originally Posted by icdb15 View Post
thanks for indulging me jur—you could have more curtly answered, "read the thread." (i now see you've already said that at post 312. also intrigued by the maneuverability vs stability dynamic [351] and how that plays out here; along with the speculative no-hands riding sub-branch.) at 6'1" i've ridden a xootr swift alu for ~5 years. the only sensitive dimension for me has been handlebar height as determined by steerer tube length + stem combo. i'm delighted to see extended vertical range in this dept as suggested in 263.

could you say how your first frame's hinge was "messed up" as received (122); and how you fixed that please? & same for the seatpost alignment issue? i ask as one who might be interested in your offering of that frame + triangle for sale—while also curious if another bulk order (the second of which apparently fell through) might be still under consideration by some here.

thanks,
chris
Hey, now worries...

Corresponding with Peter Reich, he made me very aware of the trouble Xootr had/are having with seat tube alignment. After this, I re-designed the hinge area to try and eliminate this problem, and exchanged numerous emails with the manufacturer about the seat tube alignment issue. I suggested they use a piece of seatpost-sized tubing, inserted into the seat tube sections, clamping it all down, before doing the welding of the rear triangle. The hinge would be fixed first of all, with the tightly spec'ed hinge bolt installed, and seatstays welded to hinges. That would have been the first point of assembly, followed by tacking on the rear track ends/dropouts to the seatstays, then chainstays onto the dropouts, followed by tacking the chainstays to the BB shell and the seatstays to the bottom seat tube. After checking any warping, full welding would follow. Having the seatpost installed and clamped during the entire operation would ensure alignment.

Suffice to say they ignored my advice and came up with their own scheme, which didn't work. They started out with a SINGLE piece of seat tubing, assembled the whole frame with the hinge also in place and assembled, and right at the end after all welding was done, used a cutter to cut the seat tube into the final 2 pieces, allowing the rear triangle to swing forward on the hinge or the frame to be separated into 2 pieces after removal of the hinge bolt (which I spec'ed very tightly to avoid hinge slop).

Well this was a novel idea that I didn't think of, the only problem was that cutting the seat tube into two created a gap the size of the cutter between the 2 pieces of seat tubes. Inserting the seatpost was possible, but not while the gap was closed (of course not!). So what did they do to solve that latest problem? Well they drilled/ground the hinge hole out over-size to allow the seat tube gap to be closed while the seatpost was inserted. Theoretically. I could insert and extract the seatpost only with the utmost of force, while twisting and pulling (and turning the air blue). So technically it could fold but in practice... No.

I scolded them into submission, that they should have contacted me BEFORE trying their own dodgy solutions, and they sent me a 2nd frame at a much reduced price where the problem was solved. I never got to the bottom of how they solved it, but it is definitely solved on the group buy I pushed through. Nobody has reported any alignment issues. One of the solutions I presented them with using their method of seat tube cutting, was to take the effect of the gap created by the cut into consideration, use a much smaller diameter hinge bolt during welding, and drill the hinge hole to size AFTER the cutting operation WHILE the seatpost is installed and clamped, allowing perfect alignment.

That is basically how I fixed mine - I removed the hinge bolt, clamped the seatpost as best I could, and enlarged the hinge holes carefully with a Dremel tool from 8mm to 10mm, and installed 4 Xootr frame hinge bushes in the newly-enlarged hinge holes, bringing them back down to 8mm to fit very snugly around the hinge bolt.

It's not quite perfect but quite good enough. It may even be better, tolerance-wise, than the batch of frames. These guys never really paid any attention to my hinge tolerance specs. The other problem is that they are willing to send failed operations like these to the customer - very bad.

One other person who bought a frame after the group buy, also reported not being able to install the seatpost. It don't think it was alignment problems, it seemed to have been warping issues. He is also an experienced frame builder and has a reamer tool with which he reamed out the seat tubes to allow the seatpost to be inserted. I haven't heard back from him lately, he was still busy with the build. He reported that he had to remove quite a lot of material.

So there is unfortunately another example of them willing to send a problem build to the paying customer. I took it up with Anita, and predictably she said they did test the seatpost before sending it.

There are no group buys planned at this stage - no further interest has been voiced. The above buyer contacted them directly and concluded the deal.

Last edited by jur; 12-06-15 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 12-08-15, 09:30 AM
  #396  
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hi jur,
i sure appreciate your detailed exposť.

practically then, i'm wondering just how "not quite perfect" on one hand & how "quite good enough" on the other...your fix to their botch is. any palpable play or how does the extent of imperfection manifest? any photos showing off your handiwork?

then again if i wanted to buy new from manufacturer, have you any suggestions for addressing their apparent willingness to send imperfect work to customers? i would think they'd want to provide some way of guaranteeing their work to folks willing to pre-pay for it. perhaps i need to take this up with anita directly...but am still considering your used/fixed frame if still available. please feel free to email me directly regarding that (to the extent not of interest to the forum discussion): cdb at___cdbgraft_dot_____net (replacing any length underscore with ".") as i can't yet pm you here.

thanks again!
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Old 12-08-15, 06:55 PM
  #397  
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Jur, I have the impression from the above the Xootr Swifts are still having a seat post alignment problem. I understand that the breaking chainstay issue was remedied with a stouter frame, that being the reason earlier Swifts weighed less. But, is there still an issue with alignment? I am pretty clear that properly tightened QRs on the seat post are critical, but the idea the seat post setup may not be aligned is worrisome. thanks, Ron
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Old 12-09-15, 02:44 AM
  #398  
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Originally Posted by 12boy View Post
Jur, I have the impression from the above the Xootr Swifts are still having a seat post alignment problem. I understand that the breaking chainstay issue was remedied with a stouter frame, that being the reason earlier Swifts weighed less. But, is there still an issue with alignment? I am pretty clear that properly tightened QRs on the seat post are critical, but the idea the seat post setup may not be aligned is worrisome. thanks, Ron
Peter Reich mentioned in the discussion that getting the alignment right was very tricky in both steel and aluminium versions, as everything wants to move around during welding. What they did with the Xootr version was to start with a slightly under-sized seat tube, and after welding ream it out to size, which is easier in aluminium.
It was noticeable to me that in the replacement frame I got sent by Peter, that the seatpost is quite loose, despite Peter's efforts to find me one with a tighter fit. The QRs need to be tightened a heck of a lot.

In contrast, the Ti Swift seatpost is a perfect snug fit - not so tight that removal is hard, but it definitely does not rattle around, so to speak. That would explain why even a small amount of warpage (is that a word?) would prevent a smooth insertion. I am very happy with the result achieved in the batch of frames, as mentioned before, they absolutely nailed it.
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Old 12-09-15, 03:38 AM
  #399  
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Originally Posted by icdb15 View Post
hi jur,
i sure appreciate your detailed exposť.

practically then, i'm wondering just how "not quite perfect" on one hand & how "quite good enough" on the other...your fix to their botch is. any palpable play or how does the extent of imperfection manifest? any photos showing off your handiwork?

then again if i wanted to buy new from manufacturer, have you any suggestions for addressing their apparent willingness to send imperfect work to customers? i would think they'd want to provide some way of guaranteeing their work to folks willing to pre-pay for it. perhaps i need to take this up with anita directly...but am still considering your used/fixed frame if still available. please feel free to email me directly regarding that (to the extent not of interest to the forum discussion): cdb at___cdbgraft_dot_____net (replacing any length underscore with ".") as i can't yet pm you here.

thanks again!

Here are 2 shots of the seat tube junction:





On the left there is about a 1mm gap, on the right about 0.5mm gap.

As opposed to my 2nd frame in the semi-pro photos further up, if you zoom in on that area, you can see a much smaller, better matched joint. You will see also that the cut was actually done at an angle off square - I didn't spec that but am happy with the result.

Pulling the post out, after loosening the 2 pinch bolts, is easier if the frame is pulled apart a fraction. It's not super hard, it's just not quite as smooth as the 2nd frame batch. Before fixing the hinge, the bolt actually interfered with one of the top tubes and pulled the alignment out - that's why I could not extract the seatpost unless I removed the hinge bolt.

The seatpost walks OUT during riding. Even after fixing the hinge, I find if I tighten both pinch bolts, the seatpost will walk up over time, maybe 1/8" in a week. I found better results tightening one bolt down snug and the lower one less tight.

If you look at the photos of my 2nd frame's headset, you will see the joint between the 2 stem riser clamps is almost invisible. Suffice to say I didn't get it like that - that was my patient and careful squaring off with a sanding jig that yielded that joint.

Last edited by jur; 12-09-15 at 05:51 PM. Reason: quoted wrong post in reply
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Old 12-13-15, 08:58 AM
  #400  
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hello nyc neighbor (porschetoyz),
(i may be new on this forum but have collaborated with peter reich for years and ride a custom, weight-relieving alu swift as a result.)


i'm psyched about this ti version and could well be ordering one soon. wondered how your build is progressing and if there's a chance i could take a look at a time/place of your convenience? i was big on belt drives (& experienced on my once-owned strida) for a while; on fence presentlyómaybe your bike will sway me to go that direction.

(tried pm'ing you but i lack the post-quota...)


thanks,
chris borden
direct email: cdb at cdbgraft dot net


Originally Posted by porschetoyz View Post
That would be mine.

The drive-side seatstay is separable between the brake bridge and the dropout.
Not a fail.

Not exactly exactly sure of the components yet ...
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