Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Foo
Reload this Page >

What is the advantage of these new credit cards with chip technology ?

Notices
Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

What is the advantage of these new credit cards with chip technology ?

Old 05-28-15, 01:55 PM
  #1  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
Thread Starter
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,396

Bikes: 29 frames + 74 wheels

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 882 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times in 110 Posts
What is the advantage of these new credit cards with chip technology ?

I just received a new credit card with chip technology that is supposed to protect me from counterfeiting. However, this feature only works if the card in used at a chip-enabled terminal, and all the store terminals currently in use are the old card swipe type that can be hacked. So, until stores switch to the new chip-enabled terminals, it seems like my credit card number is just as vulnerable to theft as it was with my previous cards. Also, this protection only works when using a card physically at a terminal, and it is still just as likely to be stolen when used for online purchases. I've lost count how many times I've had to go through process of closing an account and contesting fraudulent charges, plus changing the card number for all my autopay and merchant accounts, because my credit card number got stolen. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how long it takes before this credit card number gets stolen.
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Old 05-28-15, 02:08 PM
  #2  
gpburdell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
tl;dr version: the chip makes it much harder for crooks to commit fraud because when you use your card in a chip terminal it creates a unique transaction code instead of transmitting your credit card number. Remember the Home Depot breach where the point of sale registers had been infected with malware that collected credit card number? With chipped cards those would be useless since they're one-time-use numbers.

No, chip cards aren't foolproof, but they're a heck of a lot better than the magstripe. There's a reason the rest of the world has gone to chip cards.

Here's a decent writeup: 8 FAQs about EMV credit cards

I'm surprised you've had your card numbers stolen so many times. I've been using credit cards for over two decade and online almost as long as it's been available and have had ONE fraudulent charge in all that time. It was on a company Amex in Toronto a month after a business trip; I didn't even have to do anything, Amex called to ask me about the charge and sent out a new card.

Last edited by gpburdell; 05-28-15 at 02:14 PM.
gpburdell is offline  
Old 05-29-15, 08:55 PM
  #3  
trackhub
Senior Member
 
trackhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Watching all of you on O.B.I.T.
Posts: 2,013

Bikes: Gunnar Street Dog

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Both Grocery store where I shop, TJs, and the local star market, have the chip card readers, but they
have yet to be activated. I asked one of the Star Market supervisors about this, and received a blank stare.

Interesting how the U.S. always lags behind on this type of thing. Just sayin...

What's the drop dead date? i.e. the date where they must switch to the chip readers?
trackhub is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 07:56 AM
  #4  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
Thread Starter
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,396

Bikes: 29 frames + 74 wheels

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 882 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by trackhub View Post
What's the drop dead date? i.e. the date where they must switch to the chip readers?
Well, accoring to the writeup in the previous post, merchants who don't switch by October 1, 2015 will be liable for any fraudulent transactions, instead of the credit card issuing bank. So although they are not required to make the switch, there is a very strong financial incentive for them to do so. Also, this date does not apply to gas stations, who have until 2017, so it's going to be awhile before chip enabled cards will be secure when buying gas.
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 08:20 AM
  #5  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,315 Times in 826 Posts
Renders the Magnetic stripe swiping on cell phone readers like Cube, un usable?

A friend just got in the Pay Pal based scheme started for her street fair sales.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 09:20 AM
  #6  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
Thread Starter
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,396

Bikes: 29 frames + 74 wheels

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 882 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Renders the Magnetic stripe swiping on cell phone readers like Cube, un usable?

A friend just got in the Pay Pal based scheme started for her street fair sales.
Well, the first batch of chip enabled cards like the one I received also have magnetic strips, so they should work ok imo. However, once they start phasing them out and issue chip only cards that would become a problem.
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 09:22 AM
  #7  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,315 Times in 826 Posts
NSA will probably know where you are with each card Use.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 09:26 AM
  #8  
gpburdell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Renders the Magnetic stripe swiping on cell phone readers like Cube, un usable?
My guess would be that the merchant fees will go up for those users but they'll still be usable. Or I could be wrong.

In a nutshell, after Oct 1, if a consumer presents a chipped card and the merchant can only swipe it, then the merchant's credit card processing company (the acquirer) shoulders liability if that's a fraudulent transaction instead of the credit card issuing bank. If the merchant uses a chip reader with chipped cards, then the issuing bank is liable for any fraud. Thus, the intent is to incentivize the merchant credit card processing companies to get their merchants to switch to chip-capable card terminals. I'd expect the way this will happen is by increasing the transaction costs for any swiped transactions, thereby both incentivizing the merchants to switch and covering the fraud costs for those merchants to don't (can't) upgrade their card terminals.

The whole Apple Pay thing is smartly timed too -- it is effectively a chipped card transaction using a unique token over NFC, and conveniently nearly all new card terminals since two or three years ago are NFC capable though it may or may not be turned on.
gpburdell is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 09:30 AM
  #9  
gpburdell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
NSA will probably know where you are with each card Use.
You think they don't already? Your cc number is instantly identifiable to you and your issuing bank already tracks all your purchase patterns as a way to mitigate fraud by flagging out of the ordinary transactions.

The merchants also already track all this stuff with great detail. See How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did - Forbes
gpburdell is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 09:35 AM
  #10  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
yeah, they're fine

until the damn chip breaks.

soooo annoying when it does, because you can't do the plastic bag trick, unlike magnetic strips.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 09:50 AM
  #11  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,148
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times in 157 Posts
Didn't realize until recently that the US wasn't using chip cards. Best feature is the wireless 'tap' where you just touch the card to the reader. Works for purchases under $100 or so. Only problem is being stuck in line behind some 80 yr old trying to figure out how to punch in their code.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 10:17 AM
  #12  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
Thread Starter
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,396

Bikes: 29 frames + 74 wheels

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 882 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Didn't realize until recently that the US wasn't using chip cards. Best feature is the wireless 'tap' where you just touch the card to the reader. Works for purchases under $100 or so. Only problem is being stuck in line behind some 80 yr old trying to figure out how to punch in their code.
The card I received lacks the tap (NFC) feature and I suspect it will be a while here in the USA before those terminals are installed as well. Anyways, for a supposedly first world country, we are very backwards in many areas.
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 10:28 AM
  #13  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,148
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
The card I received lacks the tap (NFC) feature and I suspect it will be a while here in the USA before those terminals are installed as well. Anyways, for a supposedly first world country, we are very backwards in many areas.
I assume there are a fair number of retailers with NFC as that is what Apple pay and Google wallet use.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 12:53 PM
  #14  
gpburdell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I assume there are a fair number of retailers with NFC as that is what Apple pay and Google wallet use.
Yes, and it's increasing. As I mention above, I believe all (or nearly all) terminals made in the past 3 yrs or so include NFC capability either internally or via add-on device. Since many/most merchants are having to change out to newer EMV-capable terminals in order to properly accept chip cards, then by default there will be more widespread NFC capability. Whether that is enabled or not and whether the POS can handle it or not remain at question. Since ApplePay offers an enhanced level of security beyond chip-and-sign (US isn't really adopting chip-and-pin yet) the banks/issuers are helping push it by encouraging customers to use it.
gpburdell is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 07:33 PM
  #15  
Leukybear 
THE STUFFED
 
Leukybear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,680

Bikes: Rock Lobster; EAI Bareknuckle; Evil Insurgent

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Sad part is only 3 out of 5 point of sale terminals have the chip reader enabled in the US... totally different story up north in the land of the canucks.

At least walmart requires chip'd cards to be read as intended.
__________________
pɐǝɹ oʇ sᴉ sᴉɥʇ ƃuᴉʎouuɐ ʍoɥ ǝǝs

Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Pound sign: Kilo TT
Leukybear is offline  
Old 05-30-15, 08:25 PM
  #16  
trackhub
Senior Member
 
trackhub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Watching all of you on O.B.I.T.
Posts: 2,013

Bikes: Gunnar Street Dog

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
NSA will probably know where you are with each card Use.
I think they know that already. Might as well just get used to the idea.
trackhub is offline  
Old 05-31-15, 03:35 AM
  #17  
Rowan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,757
Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1442 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 27 Posts
We've had chipped cards for years. The tap-and-go facility is more recent, but very effective for under-$100 transactions. The magnetic strip on the back of the card still exists and encoded for those traders who don't have the readers and, I think, to back up if the chip fails. Signing for CC and DC transaction has been phased out entirely in Australia, and a PIN has to be used for all transactions.

Incidentally, I am on my third card after normal expiration of the previous two and the chip has not malfunctioned. And my cards don't have an easy life as they reside in a back-pocket wallet which goes with me everywhere on the farm where I work.

The only significant security issues in operation at the moment is the need to protect the chip's information from portable scanners that may be carried in high trafficked areas by con-men -- the modern pickpockets if you life. There are wallets with signal protection built into them. I have one.
Rowan is offline  
Old 05-31-15, 06:53 AM
  #18  
TejanoTrackie 
Veteran Racer
Thread Starter
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,396

Bikes: 29 frames + 74 wheels

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 882 Post(s)
Liked 182 Times in 110 Posts
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
The only significant security issues in operation at the moment is the need to protect the chip's information from portable scanners that may be carried in high trafficked areas by con-men -- the modern pickpockets if you life. There are wallets with signal protection built into them. I have one.
I am assuming this only applies to cards with NFC transmitters, correct ? My card only has EMV capability.
__________________
What, Me Worry? - Alfred E. Neuman

Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Old 05-31-15, 07:03 AM
  #19  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,704

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10104 Post(s)
Liked 2,201 Times in 1,520 Posts
Yo man, it's like to track you... the government man... it uses cell phones and credit card chips to know what you buy and where you are... be careful dudes.
genec is offline  
Old 05-31-15, 07:12 AM
  #20  
skijor
on by
 
skijor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 950

Bikes: Waterford RS-33, Salsa Vaya, Bacchetta Giro 20 ATT

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 830 Post(s)
Liked 453 Times in 278 Posts
They work better at scraping ice off my windshield in January.
skijor is offline  
Old 05-31-15, 12:25 PM
  #21  
dynodonn 
Banned.
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: U.S. of A.
Posts: 7,464
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1253 Post(s)
Liked 28 Times in 26 Posts
Keep your chip cards in some sort of metal lined wallet, savvy crooks can scan your card just by passing close by you.
dynodonn is offline  
Old 06-01-15, 06:28 AM
  #22  
gpburdell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
I am assuming this only applies to cards with NFC transmitters, correct ? My card only has EMV capability.
Yes, only applies to cards enabled for NFC. Range is pretty short though, just a few inches at most (NFC spec is 20cm max, in practice it's closer to under 10cm). A crook with a scanner needs to practically brush up against you; so certainly a factor if riding mass transit or standing in line, but it's not like they can sit in a panel van at the roadside grabbing info from everyone who wanders by.

Remember also that NFC transactions in other countries usually have a limit on the size of a contactless card transaction. Currently 20 in the UK going to 30 in September. $100 in Canada is mentioned above, though the article below mentions $50 or $25.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a significant difference between skimming a card's magstrip and grabbing an NFC enabled EMV card. If you skim a magstrip card you have the info to go use the card number elsewhere on multiple high-value transactions any time until the owner or issuer notices the fraud. With an NFC EMV skimmed card the thief gets one low-value transaction at most, and only if the card owner hasn't yet used the card for something else.

Worth a read: 5 myths about contactless payments
gpburdell is offline  
Old 06-01-15, 07:54 AM
  #23  
HardyWeinberg
GATC
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: south Puget Sound
Posts: 8,728
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 26 Posts
I believe in Europe where they use chip + PIN (rather than chip + signature like in Canada and I believe here) they still have magnetic strip as a fallback. Could be wrong. The machines in Europe can certainly read swipe cards as well as chip cards. Except for vending machines, have not been able to use a swipe card in a Euro vending machine. Ditching the mag strip is the way to go though.
HardyWeinberg is offline  
Old 06-01-15, 07:57 AM
  #24  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,148
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1144 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times in 157 Posts
Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg View Post
I believe in Europe where they use chip + PIN (rather than chip + signature like in Canada and I believe here) they still have magnetic strip as a fallback. Could be wrong. The machines in Europe can certainly read swipe cards as well as chip cards. Except for vending machines, have not been able to use a swipe card in a Euro vending machine. Ditching the mag strip is the way to go though.
We've been using chip + PIN for many years in Canada. Once you have a chip reading machine you'll be using a PIN also.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 06-01-15, 07:59 AM
  #25  
HardyWeinberg
GATC
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: south Puget Sound
Posts: 8,728
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 463 Post(s)
Liked 48 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
We've been using chip + PIN for many years in Canada. Once you have a chip reading machine you'll be using a PIN also.
Oh OK. Better for you than I thought. People I work with who had to get Canadian cards for frequent travel sign/swipe with them down here. I assume they signed/chipped up there but guess I was wrong. I have heard that US is doing baby steps, chip & sig rather than PIN. For fear of having to go metric too or something.
HardyWeinberg is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.