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Any boxing fans out there?

Old 08-24-17, 01:05 PM
  #301  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
What I'm really hoping for is Mayweather completely dominates McGregor and stops him quickly, then turns to the TV and tells the world to eff-off for being such suckers. That would be perfect for this generation and era.
I'm with you there. Also agree that 40 yr old Floyd is not the same threat to McGregor's health that 28 yr old Floyd would have been
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Old 08-24-17, 01:29 PM
  #302  
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Not a boxing fan, not an MMA fan, but we've been invited over to watch it at friends' house. We've been over on previous MMA nights and it's entertaining enough that I am looking forward to this spectacle.
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Old 08-24-17, 05:09 PM
  #303  
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If Mac fights him ugly like Carmen Basilio he might make a show of it. He'd better have some endurance to stay busy enough. Floyd will wait for him to gas a little and pour it on. Floyd has a previous retirement history as a gym rat. I'm guessing he's probably stayed that way. He's known to minimize risk and that's a part of it. Methinks bookies are doing likewise for this one. McGregor fans: measure your wagers carefully.


Typical odds as of August 24
  • Floyd Mayweather -450
  • Conor McGregor +325

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Old 08-25-17, 12:24 AM
  #304  
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Yup, if McGregor had Maidana's experience he might be able to rough up Floyd enough to get him off his game. But more than likely Floyd's jab and counter rights over the jab will freeze McGregor. Once that happens McG well get picked apart. Even experienced boxers have a hard time coping with finding their best, or only, weapons negated by a quicker counter puncher.
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Old 08-25-17, 01:15 AM
  #305  
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McGregor will knock Mayweather out before the 4th round ends .... I've placed a bet on McGregor a few weeks ago and got 5-1 odds
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Old 08-25-17, 03:46 AM
  #306  
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Of course mayweather should win. He's 49-0, a defensive style master, and considered one of the best of all times. Meanwhile McGregor has never boxed a pro fight in his life. Therefore all pressure is on mayweather.

McGregor for his part says, you can't elbow me, knee me, choke me, kick my legs, kick me anywhere, can't take me down, can't arm lock me, can't wrestle me, can't leg lock me, You can only use very padded hands, and the rounds are only 3 minutes? Where do I sign?

Although heavier, stronger, bigger, and younger, McGregor has only one advantage and it's psychological. And that's "if this was a Real fight McGregor would kill him". And that's something that Gatti,Dela Hoya, hatton,mosley,Pacquiao, and Canelo could never say.

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Old 08-25-17, 10:13 AM
  #307  
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yankees...comerica-park/

Yankees-Detroit Tigers .. earlier in the year the SF Giants- DC Nationals Game had some extra entertainment too.
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Old 08-25-17, 12:32 PM
  #308  
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The only shot McGregor has at knockout out Mayweather is in the first two minutes of round 1. Mayweather is a slower starter now than he was in his prime.

As Maidana showed in their first bout, and Mosley showed, the post-prime Mayweather can be hit early on. But usually opponents miss the prime target by a fraction of an inch or second. That's a very small margin for error. A split second too late in the shoulder roll, or a fraction of an inch off in the dip and quick counter right, and he could be tagged squarely.

But Mayweather adapts very quickly -- usually by the end of the first round -- and by the end of a fight it's pretty well cinched. If an opponent can't nail him quickly it's not going to happen at all. Even Pacquaio couldn't do that, and Pacquiao is the quickest fighter around in that weight class, with quicker hands than Mayweather but not quicker defense.

And so far Mayweather has looked tired only once after a long fight, that toward the end of the bout against Alvarez. But Canelo was so thoroughly beaten by then it didn't matter.
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Old 08-25-17, 12:35 PM
  #309  
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Originally Posted by texaspandj View Post
Although heavier, stronger, bigger, and younger, McGregor has only one advantage and it's psychological. And that's "if this was a Real fight McGregor would kill him". And that's something that Gatti,Dela Hoya, hatton,mosley,Pacquiao, and Canelo could never say.
Canelo would be a beast in MMA if he'd gone that route. He's very strong and agile for a guy who's built like a slab.
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Old 08-25-17, 12:57 PM
  #310  
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I don't follow boxing but, this is a World Champion boxer, right? Undefeated in his entire career and, they say, a defensive master with unmatched speed for counter-punching.

The other guy is a world-class fighter but in his first boxing match ever?

I don't get why there is such a huge amount bet on McGregor. How is there even going to be a contest?
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Old 08-25-17, 03:06 PM
  #311  
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It's mostly Great White Hope stuff, even if folks don't realize it. Mayweather is the direct inheritor to the Jack Johnson mantle, even more so than Muhammad Ali. Same abilities, same arrogance, same flaws, same flouting of the trappings of wealth, same flouting of the conventions of polite society, same determination to control his own career and destiny outside of the usual controllers of the boxing world.

We admire these rebels and outcasts in other scenarios and elevate them with hero worship, as with the myth of Jesse James that doesn't resemble the reality. Sometimes we elect them to public office. But they're always lightning rods for storms of outrage.

Conventional wisdom says a martial artists who's inexperienced in a particular discipline has no chance against a master of that discipline.

Most turn out like Pete Rademacher, thrown in over his head in his first two bouts against champion Floyd Patterson and then against top contender Zora Folley.

Others turn in frustrating or embarrassing spectacles, as an out of shape Muhammad Ali did in exhibitions against Lyle Alzado and Antonio Inoki -- the latter was permitted to use some non-traditional techniques and mostly crabbed around the ring and kicked Ali's legs into bruised lumps of goo.

But Mayweather at 40 is finally human rather than superhuman. He looked tired in the final rounds against Canelo. He was too tentative to engage Pacquiao to conclusively prove anything other than defensive mastery.

Even if McGregor lucks out with a good punch it only proves that Mayweather, like every aging and delusional champion before him, hung on too long.

But he'll get paid. So the real losers will be those who bought tickets for a meaningless spectacle. And when Mayweather is broke again in 20 years maybe they'll pay another $100 to watch a young man beat up a 60 year old.
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Old 08-25-17, 03:11 PM
  #312  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I don't follow boxing but, this is a World Champion boxer, right? Undefeated in his entire career and, they say, a defensive master with unmatched speed for counter-punching.

The other guy is a world-class fighter but in his first boxing match ever?

I don't get why there is such a huge amount bet on McGregor. How is there even going to be a contest?
Both Mcgregor and Floyd have captured the imaginations of fight fans. They're both very polarizing figures.

Mcgregor has emerged as a trashtalking great white hope of the millenial generation whereas Floyd is revered by his peers and boxing afficiniado yet despised by the general public because he beats women unapologetically and flaunts his wealth.

There literally dozens of narrative threads one could talk about but the bottom line is both personalities have struck an emotional chord. We are drawn to their personalities either as fans or haters, but they are difficult to ignore if you follow any combat sports or even professional sports in general.

I do find it odd that gamblers are ignoring conor's 0 and 0 record, not only in pro boxing, but even as an amateur boxer. Those betting on him are hoping that his reach/height/weight/age advantage and KO record in MMA translate to an improbable or even shocking upset.

Floyd's supporters point to the fact that it's impossible to replicate Floyd's decades of boxing experience, p4p GOAT skillset, superior hand speed and superior defense much less overcome this deficit with a single training camp.

All objective evidence points to an easy victory for floyd, but the hype and trashtalk press all of my emotional buttons. I'm hoping (perhaps beyond all hope) that conor makes this a competitive contest.
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Old 08-26-17, 06:01 AM
  #313  
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There have been a couple of notable MMA fighters, mostly kickboxers, who successfully transitioned to conventional boxing.

In only his third pro fight Saensak Muangsurin stopped Perico Fernandez for the light welter crown in 1975. But Muangsurin was already an experienced muay thai fighter with solid boxing skills.

And Indonesian champ Chris John was a dominant featherweight champ, including a win over the great Juan Manuel Marquez, for about 10 years after coming from a wushu martial arts background. But his progress to traditional boxing was fairly conventional, not an overnight success story.

David Reid won a light middleweight title in only his 12th pro fight after winning Olympic gold. But Reid's career was rushed and hindered by a badly damaged eye from the amateur bouts. He was talented but never developed his full potential as that eye limited his vision quickly. He turned in a gutsy but losing performance against a peak Felix Trinidad and retired soon afterward.
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Old 08-26-17, 06:22 AM
  #314  
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Don't forget Texan Troy Dorsey. The only person to hold a belt in both sports.

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Old 08-26-17, 04:06 PM
  #315  
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Yep, Troy was tough. Saw him in person once or twice, and a couple of his bouts were televised.

He was primarily a kickboxer before conventional boxing. Kickboxing was popular in Texas at the time and many practitioners had solid boxing skills. Totally different stance and approach compared with many current MMA practitioners who also use various grappling techniques. The grappling demands a different stance, usually head up and squared off, which is fatal in boxing.

Troy didn't have much defense, took a lot of punches and didn't have much punching power but overwhelmed opponents with flurries and relentlessness. He had incredible stamina and the ability to recover from being stunned and come roaring back. A crowd pleasing fighter but not a great style for a long career.
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Old 08-26-17, 10:39 PM
  #316  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
It's mostly Great White Hope stuff, even if folks don't realize it.



Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
I don't follow boxing but, this is a World Champion boxer, right? Undefeated in his entire career and, they say, a defensive master with unmatched speed for counter-punching.

The other guy is a world-class fighter but in his first boxing match ever?

I don't get why there is such a huge amount bet on McGregor. How is there even going to be a contest?
This one attracts the non-fan or the casual fan. For boxing's sake I too am hoping that Mac can make a show because It'll be on him to do so........I try not to pick on hope though.

Originally Posted by speshelite View Post
I do find it odd that gamblers are ignoring conor's 0 and 0 record, not only in pro boxing, but even as an amateur boxer. Those betting on him are hoping that his reach/height/weight/age advantage and KO record in MMA translate to an improbable or even shocking upset.
It's a good thing I'm retired since my wagers are with individuals and not bookies. I'd win so many bets that I'd probably have to collect at least one of them in the parking lot........and I'm way too old for that anymore.

I'm picking for the hope to foul out ala Tyson in the 2nd Holyfield fight or Battling Nelson in the 42nd round of the 1st Joe Gans fight..........I'm gonna say mid rounds.

Last edited by Zinger; 08-26-17 at 11:08 PM.
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Old 08-26-17, 11:50 PM
  #317  
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Mayweather vs McGregor went exactly as I'd expected. Slow start -- slower than usual for Mayweather, who really should retire now. Then pick McG apart as his inexperience leaves him open.

The only reason anyone ever bets against Mayweather is emotional reactions. They don't like him because he's an uppity black man. He flaunts his wealth. He beats his women. Etc., etc., exactly all the same stuff as Jack Johnson.

None of which has a damned thing to do with boxing.

I've watched almost every Mayweather bout that was available, since the end of his amateur career. This fight outcome was obvious 20 years ago.

I won't say Mayweather is the all time greatest, but he's certainly top 10. Despite his occasional ring inactivity he's never ducked anyone. He's fought well above his natural weight class for more than a decade. He fought the best in their respective primes -- unlike Pacquiao -- and never demanded catch weights to drain bigger opponents -- unlike Pacquiao.

The worst anyone can say about Mayweather is his defensive mastery isn't a crowd pleaser for the bloodthirsty casual fans. And he juices and gets away with it. But so does every top athlete in every sport now. Including Pacquiao. So it's a level playing field, at least for athletes who can afford the best PEDs and medical advisers to help them beat the tests.
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Old 08-27-17, 05:49 AM
  #318  
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Looked like a lot of coasting on Floyd's part. Wasn't a very compelling fight up through the 8th round no matter the cheerleading from the commentators.

That's all I belatedly saw of it. I missed my pick by rounds (since it went past the 8th) and stoppage (no DQ).
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Old 08-27-17, 10:29 AM
  #319  
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Is there anything in the contract about DQ affecting payout? I wasn't expecting a DQ anyway but even less so if McG would have seen less $$
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Old 08-27-17, 01:55 PM
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The Telegraph UK ringside reporter called it pretty accurately, recognizing things only a real boxing expert would know. He said Floyd looked obviously older and slower and used the first few rounds to test McGregor's stamina.

And while other observers were gushing about how aggressive and effective McG seemed to be, the Telegraph guy was mostly saying, meh, not really that impressive and McG is gassing out, mouth wide open.

Another observer noted how Floyd fluidly shifted tactics round by round, from aggressive offense to Philly shell, to lure McG into expending energy, then finishing him off.

Floyd is the most versatile tactician since Sugar Ray Robinson. Both are improv masters. And I remember that classic Robinson reply to a question about strategy and tactics. Robinson said every fight is like a date. First you dress 'em up. Then you take 'em out.

But Robinson was always more of a crowd pleaser, with effective aggression even when he was well past his prime. He took risks most wouldn't, which may have contributed to his Alzheimer's late in life -- although I'm not sure whether Ray's condition was directly attributable to boxing. But that's why Robinson will always be the true all time greatest.
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Old 08-27-17, 02:13 PM
  #321  
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The last few posts reek of utter bull----. I've read a few tall tales on the internet, but the geriatric rants of the last handful rank with the very worst. :-)
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Old 08-27-17, 04:21 PM
  #322  
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Well alrighty then.
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Old 08-27-17, 05:57 PM
  #323  
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Okay, I just watched the full Mayweather vs McGregor fight. It went exactly as the Telegraph UK ringside reporters called it, although I think they gave McGregor a little too much credit for effective punching. Maybe a little generosity, but not too biased.

Things McGregor does well:
  • Good use of reach. I like to see a tall boxer with long reach using it properly. McGregor does.
  • Counter-punching reflex. Damn, he's quick. You can't teach that. He's got the knack.
  • Footwork. Reminds me a bit of Pacquiao under Freddy Roach's tutelage, and especially Sergio Martinez. Those quick shifts and angles are brilliant, especially for a southpaw.
  • Good defensive reactions before he gassed out. He sees well and reacts appropriately.

And that's about it. Hard head, but that's not something one does well. Fighters are born with that, or not.

Things McGregor does poorly:
  • That high head, chin up stance.
  • Pawing with the extended jab.
  • Repeated hammerfist blows. In any other fight points would have been deducted.
  • Breath control. He gassed out early because of tension, not poor conditioning or energy expenditure. He recovered pretty well between rounds. He's obviously well conditioned. But he needs to learn how to breathe for boxing.

Mayweather capitalized on this with quick rights to the solar plexus. The body shots didn't immediately hurt McG, but made him tense up more and constrict the diaphragm. He hasn't yet learned to expel air while punching to constrict the diaphragm with less effort, then stepping back or moving laterally to breathe again before re-engaging. That's just inexperience and nerves. McGregor can learn to improve here.

But the high head, chin up stance? He's gonna get killed by any decent boxer in his real weight class. Only reason he got away with it this weekend is he's so much taller and bigger than Floyd (McG looks much taller than the one-inch difference cited by most reports; and Mayweather still looks like a blown up lightweight, not a true welterweight, let alone light middleweight), and Mayweather is much slower than he used to be. And I don't see McGregor unlearning this bad habit. It's ingrained into many MMA fighters and McG holds his head even farther up than most MMA fighters. He'll never be ready for someone like Golovkin, Canelo or other vicious puncher with solid hooks.

He can unlearn the hammerfist and MMA techniques to avoid losing precious points or being DQ'd.

And he can adjust the jab as needed to suit the opponent. He got away with that pawing, extended arm thing against the shorter, aging Mayweather. He won't get away with it against peak fighters his own size and height.

Round by round, it went pretty much as the Telegraph UK described.

I'd give McGregor the first three rounds. He had good snap in his punches. He scored a few solid body shots. He didn't score any significant head shots. Floyd blocked, parried and moved away from most head shots -- watch the video in slow-mo. Most of the solid sounding punches were actually glove-on-glove noise from blocked shots.

But Mayweather was still in control of the fight even during the first three rounds. He wasn't pinned against the ropes. He was laying back, assessing McGregor. Exactly the same thing he's done against many opponents, including Maidana and Pacquaio. Floyd mostly used the high hands, Winky Wright style, rather than the Philly shell and shoulder roll. But Mayweather didn't seem to have the old flexibility and lightning defensive quickness. He didn't lean back against the ropes, moving his head away from punches while leaving room to counter, as he's done so effectively in the past. He was mostly blocking and parrying. As with Winky Wright, this defensive shell style limits counterpunching, taking a split second longer than slipping punches.

Even the few jabs and crosses that did sneak through the gloves were mostly blocked. McG scored a few shots off the top of Mayweather's head, but not enough to even buzz Floyd, let alone stun him. But those were scoring punches for McGregor.

By the fourth round McG was gassed. There was no snap in his punches and he never got it back. He used his reach less. There was nothing on his shots. However McG retain good reflexive counter-punching, particularly quick uppercuts as Floyd threw straight rights. This effectively thwarted one of Mayweather's best time-proven techniques, the quick shoulder roll/short right counter. That quick, instinctive counter-punching is McGregor's single best natural talent.

After that Floyd pretty much walked McGregor down, walking through punches and grinning like a cat playing with a mouse before finally killing it.

McGregor was increasingly gassed by the end of every round from the 4th on. His legs were gone and he wobbled just being driven backward by Floyd's forward pressure. Remarkably, McG recovered well between rounds. Again, he's well conditioned but has poor breath control. He can improve there.

I'd like to say McGregor has potential as a traditional boxer. He has some good attributes. But I don't see him unlearning those bad habits, notably the high head, chin up stance. He might even make the top 10 in a weak division. But he'll never be ready for a legitimate champion in his own weight class.

And Mayweather needs to stay retired. His once superhuman reflexes are gone. He needs three rounds to suss out an opponent, where he used to need only two minutes of round 1. He basically spent the first three rounds just analyzing McGregor, blocking and parrying most shots, trying to warm up an aging body with slowed reflexes.

Mayweather is merely human now, albeit still better than most of the top 10 in his weight class. But he has nothing left to prove. A victory over Mayweather now would be tainted, an implied asterisk, like Rocky Marciano's win over Joe Louis, Trevor Berbick's win over Muhammad Ali, or any Roy Jones Jr. loss after the KO by Antonio Tarver. This weekend's Mayweather would have lost to Pacquiao.

Last edited by canklecat; 08-27-17 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 08-28-17, 07:13 AM
  #324  
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Originally Posted by HardyWeinberg View Post
Is there anything in the contract about DQ affecting payout? I wasn't expecting a DQ anyway but even less so if McG would have seen less $$
None in the contracts that I'm aware of and I don't believe Nevada at least has anything in their boxing regulations concerning it. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 08-28-17, 07:28 AM
  #325  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
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  • Breath control. He gassed out early because of tension, not poor conditioning or energy expenditure. He recovered pretty well between rounds. He's obviously well conditioned. But he needs to learn how to breathe for boxing.

Mayweather capitalized on this with quick rights to the solar plexus. The body shots didn't immediately hurt McG, but made him tense up more and constrict the diaphragm. He hasn't yet learned to expel air while punching to constrict the diaphragm with less effort, then stepping back or moving laterally to breathe again before re-engaging. That's just inexperience and nerves. McGregor can learn to improve here.
I'm gonna disagree with that although tense he appeared even before the start of it. If he's sucking up oxygen it's because he's not conditioned to operate through 12 rounds yet.

No problemo with the rest.



But the high head, chin up stance? He's gonna get killed by any decent boxer in his real weight class. Only reason he got away with it this weekend is he's so much taller and bigger than Floyd (McG looks much taller than the one-inch difference cited by most reports; and Mayweather still looks like a blown up lightweight, not a true welterweight, let alone light middleweight), and Mayweather is much slower than he used to be. And I don't see McGregor unlearning this bad habit. It's ingrained into many MMA fighters and McG holds his head even farther up than most MMA fighters. He'll never be ready for someone like Golovkin, Canelo or other vicious puncher with solid hooks.

He can unlearn the hammerfist and MMA techniques to avoid losing precious points or being DQ'd.

And he can adjust the jab as needed to suit the opponent. He got away with that pawing, extended arm thing against the shorter, aging Mayweather. He won't get away with it against peak fighters his own size and height.

Round by round, it went pretty much as the Telegraph UK described.

I'd give McGregor the first three rounds. He had good snap in his punches. He scored a few solid body shots. He didn't score any significant head shots. Floyd blocked, parried and moved away from most head shots -- watch the video in slow-mo. Most of the solid sounding punches were actually glove-on-glove noise from blocked shots.

But Mayweather was still in control of the fight even during the first three rounds. He wasn't pinned against the ropes. He was laying back, assessing McGregor. Exactly the same thing he's done against many opponents, including Maidana and Pacquaio. Floyd mostly used the high hands, Winky Wright style, rather than the Philly shell and shoulder roll. But Mayweather didn't seem to have the old flexibility and lightning defensive quickness. He didn't lean back against the ropes, moving his head away from punches while leaving room to counter, as he's done so effectively in the past. He was mostly blocking and parrying. As with Winky Wright, this defensive shell style limits counterpunching, taking a split second longer than slipping punches.

Even the few jabs and crosses that did sneak through the gloves were mostly blocked. McG scored a few shots off the top of Mayweather's head, but not enough to even buzz Floyd, let alone stun him. But those were scoring punches for McGregor.

By the fourth round McG was gassed. There was no snap in his punches and he never got it back. He used his reach less. There was nothing on his shots. However McG retain good reflexive counter-punching, particularly quick uppercuts as Floyd threw straight rights. This effectively thwarted one of Mayweather's best time-proven techniques, the quick shoulder roll/short right counter. That quick, instinctive counter-punching is McGregor's single best natural talent.

After that Floyd pretty much walked McGregor down, walking through punches and grinning like a cat playing with a mouse before finally killing it.

McGregor was increasingly gassed by the end of every round from the 4th on. His legs were gone and he wobbled just being driven backward by Floyd's forward pressure. Remarkably, McG recovered well between rounds. Again, he's well conditioned but has poor breath control. He can improve there.

I'd like to say McGregor has potential as a traditional boxer. He has some good attributes. But I don't see him unlearning those bad habits, notably the high head, chin up stance. He might even make the top 10 in a weak division. But he'll never be ready for a legitimate champion in his own weight class.

And Mayweather needs to stay retired. His once superhuman reflexes are gone. He needs three rounds to suss out an opponent, where he used to need only two minutes of round 1. He basically spent the first three rounds just analyzing McGregor, blocking and parrying most shots, trying to warm up an aging body with slowed reflexes.

Mayweather is merely human now, albeit still better than most of the top 10 in his weight class. But he has nothing left to prove. A victory over Mayweather now would be tainted, an implied asterisk, like Rocky Marciano's win over Joe Louis, Trevor Berbick's win over Muhammad Ali, or any Roy Jones Jr. loss after the KO by Antonio Tarver. This weekend's Mayweather would have lost to Pacquiao.
As a Mayweather fan I don't ever want to see him in a boxing ring again. Fold winning and walk away.

Last edited by Zinger; 08-28-17 at 07:32 AM.
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