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Food and Beverage Manufactures: Content-reducing Packaging

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View Poll Results: Content-reducing Packaging
I feel its deceptive pricing
3
17.65%
The consumer should always double check
11
64.71%
I'm ambivalent
1
5.88%
Other
2
11.76%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

Food and Beverage Manufactures: Content-reducing Packaging

Old 08-14-18, 06:54 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
A recipe calls for an 8oz cup of sour cream because that's how its sold. Now the package is suddenly 6 oz which mean you're force to buy twice what you need. If you can't see that as a deceptive marketing practice they you're either obtuse or a shareholder.
Wut You honestly believe sour cream manufacturers are secretly looking into peoples' recipe files and modifying packaging to force them to buy more than they need?
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Old 08-14-18, 08:08 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Wut You honestly believe sour cream manufacturers are secretly looking into peoples' recipe files and modifying packaging to force them to buy more than they need?
It's an example. Their recipe calls for 8oz because that is the way the product has been packaged for years. Suddenly the manufacturer reduces the amount of sour cream in the container and keeps the same price or even increases the price on that container the same container size. Now the consumer needs to buy two or adjust.

The right thing to do would be to just increase the price on the original 8oz container to where the manufacturer wants it. But then they know you might not buy the product because of such a huge jump in price.

Same thing happened with coffee years back. You got a pound of coffee in a certain sized can. Been that way for years. As prices went up, so did the coffee. Manufacturers then got the bright idea to start cutting the amount of coffee in the can, instead of raising prices so much. I don't know what you call that but I call it deception and I would never conduct a business in such a manner.
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Old 08-14-18, 08:13 AM
  #53  
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[QUOTE=spinnaker;20505606Their recipe calls for 8oz [/QUOTE]
He wrote "a" recipe, not "their" recipe.
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Old 08-14-18, 09:56 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
The right thing to do would be to just increase the price on the original 8oz container to where the manufacturer wants it. But then they know you might not buy the product because of such a huge jump in price.
The right thing to do is to give the consumer what they want. How do you know what they want? They vote with their money.

How can this possibly be considered deceptive? The net contents are clearly listed on the label. Any marketing dept. whose goal was to intentionally piss off the consumer would be fired.
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Old 08-14-18, 10:03 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
No its not. Its a deceptive way to skirt by the law.They've already done that. But you don't have to agree with me, its obvious you represent the manufacturer.By checking to see it they've shrunk the packaging? Is that something you do every time you make a purchase?

Spoken like the consummate businessman. I'm guessing you don't advocate for the consumer? See previous post. All of which were provided due to the contribution of consumer advocates. Not because the manufactures gave it voluntarily.
Answer the question. What do you think the manufacturer should do if they change anything with their product, other than clearly state it on the label as they do now???

What would make it 'non deceptive' to you? A mass mailing? Email?

How much do you really want your hand held?
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Old 08-14-18, 11:23 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
All of which were provided due to the contribution of consumer advocates. Not because the manufactures gave it voluntarily.
for me its simple, when you have a label that clearly states the content weight and unit pricing that lets you do comparisons with similar products i don’t see any deception…..how that and other food info came about is important (and needed) but it DOES give the knowledge needed to take personal responsibility for the foods you eat, your budget and most importantly your health, instead of just blaming someone else…..
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Old 08-14-18, 11:53 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Spoken like the consummate businessman. I'm guessing you don't advocate for the consumer? See previous post. All of which were provided due to the contribution of consumer advocates. Not because the manufactures gave it voluntarily.
Not true. Food manufacturers loved it when nutrition information became standardized and words like 'organic', 'low fat', and non-gmo became more standardized.

You speak as if people who run or work in manufacturing live to screw their customers. They are people just like you.

I hope you are married cuz you obviously need someone to protect you from the mean, nasty world. Can't even shop by yourself.
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Old 08-14-18, 12:11 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Tape2012 View Post
Not true. Food manufacturers loved it when nutrition information became standardized and words like 'organic', 'low fat', and non-gmo became more standardized.

You speak as if people who run or work in manufacturing live to screw their customers. They are people just like you.

I hope you are married cuz you obviously need someone to protect you from the mean, nasty world. Can't even shop by yourself.
You never answered the question as to why manufacturers fill their packaging with air and continue to do so.
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Old 08-14-18, 12:18 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Tape2012 View Post

You speak as if people who run or work in manufacturing live to screw their customers..
No of course they don't



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Old 08-14-18, 12:38 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
You never answered the question as to why manufacturers fill their packaging with air and continue to do so.
That's difficult to do without a specific example but, having worked in manufacturing most of my career, I can think of several non-nefarious reasons.

1) Packaging is often a big part of the branding of a product. Examples are the bottle for Red Stripe beer and Aunt Jemima syrup. Mfgs. would naturally be reluctant to make significant changes in thesecases

2) Pkg. changes are expensive. Minor variations of pkg that run through pkg lines with little or no modifications reduce capital costs and changeover times, reducing costs. These savings are compounded when you consider the companies who make the pkg as well as the pkg and shipping to get it to the retailers.

​​​​​​3) A half full bag of chips protects the product. Nobody buys chips that are crushed. This principle applies to many products.

These are only a few examples.

Now you never answered my question What do you suggest Mfgs do when they make changes, especially given that all pertinent info is already on the package? How much more do you expect others to hold your hand through the perilous process of getting groceries?
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Old 08-14-18, 12:51 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
This one is funnier. Doesn't make it relevant.

youtu.be/lWfaiTLPUKQ
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Old 08-14-18, 08:20 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post

You really have to be pretty thick not to see the deception in that one. If that's not enough there's more examples of these marketing, packaging, etc. to fill a database. Like the photo of the McDonald's apple pie that was bursting with apple but the one you got only had one or two bits of apple. Or the misleading image of the box of Kellogg's Raisin Bran that only had a few raisins in it.

Who hasn't seen a product listed online just to get it delivered and find it looks/works nothing like what was advertised? How would you know something like that beforehand?


As for labels, they can be deceptive too. Words like "proprietary blend" and "organic" which really have no standard meaning are used all the time. Sure the buyer has a responsibility, I never denied that. But just because something is listed on the label doesn't always tell the whole story. For example, 100% beef can be 50% fat or ground hooves and tail. Its all still beef, isn't it?




It takes advocacy groups and responsible individuals to test these products just to find if the ingredient is what consumers expect and in amounts that's are meaningful.

Don't pretend like manufactures are inherently honest. We keep them honest by being vigilant, asking question, complaining, and publicizing their deceptions. A customer always has the right to complain.
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Old 08-14-18, 08:52 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
For example, 100% beef can be 50% fat or ground hooves and tail. Its all still beef, isn't it?
Parts is parts!
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Old 08-14-18, 10:08 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
You really have to be pretty thick not to see the deception in that one. If that's not enough there's more examples of these marketing, packaging, etc. to fill a database. Like the photo of the McDonald's apple pie that was bursting with apple but the one you got only had one or two bits of apple. Or the misleading image of the box of Kellogg's Raisin Bran that only had a few raisins in it.

Who hasn't seen a product listed online just to get it delivered and find it looks/works nothing like what was advertised? How would you know something like that beforehand?


As for labels, they can be deceptive too. Words like "proprietary blend" and "organic" which really have no standard meaning are used all the time. Sure the buyer has a responsibility, I never denied that. But just because something is listed on the label doesn't always tell the whole story. For example, 100% beef can be 50% fat or ground hooves and tail. Its all still beef, isn't it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqKl4Q3hW4&vl=en


It takes advocacy groups and responsible individuals to test these products just to find if the ingredient is what consumers expect and in amounts that's are meaningful.

Don't pretend like manufactures are inherently honest. We keep them honest by being vigilant, asking question, complaining, and publicizing their deceptions. A customer always has the right to complain.
Wow I'm impressed. The amount of fake news in that one post is impressive. Let me address a few.

1. The video you were responding to is from a MOVIE. You do get the difference, right? You might be tempted to compare that movie scene to McDonald's but based on sales figures it appears most people don't share your complaints.
2. The video you attached discusses the use of ammonium hydroxide in meat products. First ammonium hydroxide is already present naturally in beef. Producers increase the amount to reduce the risk of e coli, which is also present naturally in beef. Ammonium hydroxide is also present in hundreds of food products, that's why they make food grade ammonium hydroxide. Contrary to the video, it is also used in Europe, Canada and pretty much everywhere that people do not want to get food poisoning. Yes, ammonium hydroxide (which is just ammonia and water) is also used as a cleaning agent. Then again so is water. Or something nasty sounding like acetic acid. Also known as vinegar. Wouldn't want that in our food, would we?
3. You keep harping on McDonald's apple pies. Unless you can truthfully say that you have only eaten ONE McDonald's apple pie in your life, you can only blame the first one on McDonald's all the rest are all on you. And it's called hypocrisy.
4. Despite your incorrect claims, the use of the word 'organic' is regulated by the USDA for food and the FDA for things like cosmetics.
5. There have been cases where advocacy groups have uncovered wrongdoing on the part business. Good examples are Ralph Nader and the Ford Pinto. Or the police and pedophile priests. Stuff happens when individuals make bad decisions.
6. I absolutely believe manufacturers are inherently honest because companies are made up of people who are for the most part inherently honest. Ignorance and apathy is much more of a problem.

Last edited by Tape2012; 08-14-18 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 08-15-18, 05:48 AM
  #65  
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I'll just leave this here
FDA handbook
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Old 08-15-18, 06:16 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Tape2012 View Post
6. I absolutely believe manufacturers are inherently honest because companies are made up of people who are for the most part inherently honest. Ignorance and apathy is much more of a problem.
I think that's going a bit too far. Marketing inherently walks a pretty fine line on the edge of deception. Whether or not you call it 'dishonest' is somewhat of a semantic argument. Similarly, I don't think I'd want to defend the notion that human beings are inherently honest. If you go through life assuming that everyone you're dealing with is honest, you'll get burned on a regular basis. But that's life and we know it going in. I don't think of marketing in terms of it being 'dishonest', but I recognize the purpose and intent of marketing and regard it accordingly. I don't expect marketing to give me a true and accurate picture. If a product doesn't meet my expectations, I don't buy it again.
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Old 08-15-18, 09:08 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Tape2012 View Post
W
6. I absolutely believe manufacturers are inherently honest because companies are made up of people who are for the most part inherently honest. Ignorance and apathy is much more of a problem.


https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/03/new...dal/index.html

https://www.inquisitr.com/1592116/ai...-test-results/

Just two biggies.
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Old 08-15-18, 09:38 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by FBOATSB View Post
I'll just leave this here
FDA handbook
They failed to mention that a certain level of pus is allowed in milk, and by extension all dairy products. Yum!
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Old 08-15-18, 10:11 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
I think that's going a bit too far. Marketing inherently walks a pretty fine line on the edge of deception. Whether or not you call it 'dishonest' is somewhat of a semantic argument. Similarly, I don't think I'd want to defend the notion that human beings are inherently honest. If you go through life assuming that everyone you're dealing with is honest, you'll get burned on a regular basis. But that's life and we know it going in. I don't think of marketing in terms of it being 'dishonest', but I recognize the purpose and intent of marketing and regard it accordingly. I don't expect marketing to give me a true and accurate picture. If a product doesn't meet my expectations, I don't buy it again.
That seems fair. Personally I regard marketing like I do watching Fox News or CNN (I watch both) . They both present the same basic facts but with a definite bias. As long as you know the bias going in, you can pick out the facts and draw your own conclusions. I don't feel 'deceived' after watching either one.

You can always point to individuals who have been dishonest for personal gain. Unfortunately the higher in an organization they are the more damage they can do. A perfect example is Trump. Had he ever had to hold a real job his bosses would have seen right through his crap and he would have been flushed out of the system quickly.

But in my experience I can point to many, many more honest hard working people. If you cannot say the same then you are probably hanging out with the wrong crowd. And that probably says more about you than them.
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Old 08-15-18, 12:05 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Marketing inherently walks a pretty fine line on the edge of deception. Whether or not you call it 'dishonest' is somewhat of a semantic argument.
The above reminds me of a letter to the editor that appeared in "Adventure Cyclist," which is Adventure Cycling Association's publication. The writer was railing at a Schwalbe tire ad in the magazine that was promoting its "flat-less" technology. IIRC, he basically said it was wrong for ACA to allow an add that gave the false impression that one could never get a flat running Schwalbe tires with flat-less. Left me shaking my head.
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Old 08-17-18, 04:56 AM
  #71  
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Seems I owe some of you an apology. Wednesday's Food section of the NYT has a pasta recipe that sounds wonderful. I bough all the ingredients yesterday afternoon except for the feta cheese crumbles. The recipe calls for 8 oz. Stopped by Whole Food on the way home for the cheese and discovered that it's only sold in 6 oz. containers. Unwilling to be taken by the NYT/Bezos conspiracy designed to force me to buy more than I need, I tossed the recipe and the other ingredients.
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Old 08-17-18, 07:38 AM
  #72  
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The recipe would be fine with 3/4 the feta.
I just used an 8oz package from Trader Joes for making veggie burgers.
Usually I buy it bulk from a large pan of water at the Middle Eastern market. Several types to select from.
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Old 08-17-18, 08:35 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
The recipe would be fine with 3/4 the feta.
I just used an 8oz package from Trader Joes for making veggie burgers.
That's not the point. We need to stick it to the man who is trying to extort money from us by manipulating product amounts so they do not match our recipes! Fight the power!

And why would I take advice from someone who eats veggie burgers? Vegetables aren't food. They are the stuff that food eats.

Juts kidding of course. Got the feta and cannot wait to make it. Orecchiette with a sauce made of fresh corn kernels, jalapeno sautéed in butter, feta and basil. A co-worker just happened to have brought in some jalapenos fresh from her garden the other day.
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Old 08-17-18, 09:08 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
That's not the point. We need to stick it to the man who is trying to extort money from us by manipulating product amounts so they do not match our recipes! Fight the power!

And why would I take advice from someone who eats veggie burgers? Vegetables aren't food. They are the stuff that food eats.

Juts kidding of course. Got the feta and cannot wait to make it. Orecchiette with a sauce made of fresh corn kernels, jalapeno sautéed in butter, feta and basil. A co-worker just happened to have brought in some jalapenos fresh from her garden the other day.
*

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