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What is Happening to Apple?

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Old 01-13-19, 12:04 AM
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What is Happening to Apple?

Why Apple's fall from grace is opening up other ways to play battered technology stocks



Shares of the tech giant are down over 30 percent from its October high, shedding more than $400 billion in market capitalization from peak to trough



Has all the Apple fanbots finally forsaken their god?


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Old 01-13-19, 12:17 AM
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Remember the stock market is about confidence not performance.

Apple released a negative earnings statement and people have come to realize they're not immune to foreign economic troubles. The trade war with China that's hurting them could go on indefinitely.
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Old 01-13-19, 07:30 AM
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Apple has been trying to pretend that smartphones aren't becoming a commodity.

It's the same thing that happened to the PC. When the PC became a thing, boutique stores opened up in high end locations, and they were about half the price of a car. Over the years, they became a commodity that most got at Walmart and Best Buy for less than a grand.
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Old 01-13-19, 08:32 AM
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The decline from positive returns to diminishing returns to negative returns accelerates when the innovative founders die or leave and the remaining staff are just corporate stooges.
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Old 01-13-19, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Zedoo View Post
The decline from positive returns to diminishing returns to negative returns accelerates when the innovative founders die or leave and the remaining staff are just corporate stooges.
I'm beginning to notice that trend. Also, when the leader of the company become a bit long in the tooth. Companies like GM or Canon come to mind.

They have the misplaced notion that what worked for them is the past will still work today, so they don't innovate. Then other companies move in and take their customer away. Dell is another "once king" corporation that sat on its laurels and fell by the wayside. I could fill a database.
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Old 01-13-19, 09:35 AM
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Apple will always confuse me. Or rather, Apple's consumers, among which they count my sister as a member (and through hand-me-downs, my mother and father).
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Old 01-13-19, 10:30 AM
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Iíve never had issues with my Apple products and find the cost of them to be worth it.
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Old 01-13-19, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post
Iíve never had issues with my Apple products and find the cost of them to be worth it.
Yeah, when Verizon and Century Link went down, I could still used imessages. There is some value in that. I did not pay a whole lot of money for my phone, and I bought it outright.
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Old 01-13-19, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
Apple will always confuse me. Or rather, Apple's consumers, among which they count my sister as a member (and through hand-me-downs, my mother and father).
Originally Posted by RJM View Post
Iíve never had issues with my Apple products and find the cost of them to be worth it.
I had apple stuff for quite a while, not for any real reason. Decided to get android this go around moreso just to try something different. It's objectively a piece of crap. I'll stick with apple.
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Old 01-13-19, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
Apple will always confuse me. Or rather, Apple's consumers, among which they count my sister as a member (and through hand-me-downs, my mother and father).
I went -> apple-> Android-> iPhone X. We have no desktops. Their hardware is best, ime, tablets etc all are easier to use. Particularly the Apple Watch which does not work with Android. The headphones have seamless connections as well, with the w2 chip. If google would create a decent watch I would switch over, especially with something similar to apple health kit.
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Old 01-13-19, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I had apple stuff for quite a while, not for any real reason. Decided to get android this go around moreso just to try something different. It's objectively a piece of crap. I'll stick with apple.
yeah, I know quite a few people with Android who are constantly having issues. The apple stuff Iíve had has always worked well, even the Apple TV we just got.
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Old 01-13-19, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post

yeah, I know quite a few people with Android who are constantly having issues. The apple stuff Iíve had has always worked well, even the Apple TV we just got.
Yup. I love our apple TV. Works flawlessly, and makes for using bluetooth headphones while watching movies a breeze.

Love those headphones. Our TV is down in a finished basement...right nect to our HVAC system which can be pretty loud. Plus i'm usually watching tv after my kid goes to bed, so headphones are the perfect solution. Sound quality is better anyway.
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Old 01-13-19, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by RJM View Post

yeah, I know quite a few people with Android who are constantly having issues. The apple stuff Iíve had has always worked well, even the Apple TV we just got.
I know quite a few people constantly having problems with iphones... they tend to be a bit um, "technologically illiterate." Those folks will have problems with any tech.

Heck, I know folks that can't hook up stereo speakers.... do you think it might be the brand of speaker that causes that issue???
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Old 01-13-19, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
I'm beginning to notice that trend. Also, when the leader of the company become a bit long in the tooth. Companies like GM or Canon come to mind.

They have the misplaced notion that what worked for them is the past will still work today, so they don't innovate. Then other companies move in and take their customer away. Dell is another "once king" corporation that sat on its laurels and fell by the wayside. I could fill a database.
I believe you are right... those leaders of the company need to hire innovators... but often they feel like they are handing over the keys to the kingdom.

Jobs knew what he wanted, and pushed for it. I am not sure that Tim Cook has that same drive and innovation... Interestingly, Cook came from a background of working with PCs... IBM and Compaq. Shortly after taking over as Apple CEO, he let go some the top staff at Apple... they may have been part of the innovative backbone of the company.

Bear in mind also that Jobs went through a lot of failures before Apple became the powerhouse that it was.
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Old 01-13-19, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Remember the stock market is about confidence not performance.

Apple released a negative earnings statement and people have come to realize they're not immune to foreign economic troubles. The trade war with China that's hurting them could go on indefinitely.
I think they are also waging a patent battle in China, and losing. Odd that China, home of the free-for-all would be the center of a patent battle.

A lot of stocks are down.
  1. Trump's Trade War
  2. Fed increasing interest rates without watching what is happening on the stock market.
  3. Apple's Patent Woes in China
  4. US Government Shutdown
  5. Revised Income Predictions from Apple.
Put all them together, and one gets the perfect storm.
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Old 01-13-19, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post

Odd that China, home of the free-for-all would be the center of a patent battle.
China has changed the way it handles patents, they've gotten serious about it. Also, most of the patent suits are being brought by Chinese against Chinese.

Ain't perfect (but then we have our own patent woes), but it's a big improvement.

Btw, you missed the commodification of smartphones.
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Old 01-13-19, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I had apple stuff for quite a while, not for any real reason. Decided to get android this go around moreso just to try something different. It's objectively a piece of crap. I'll stick with apple.
You sure you had android? What phone did you try?
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Old 01-13-19, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I think they are also waging a patent battle in China, and losing. Odd that China, home of the free-for-all would be the center of a patent battle.

A lot of stocks are down.
  1. Trump's Trade War
  2. Fed increasing interest rates without watching what is happening on the stock market.
  3. Apple's Patent Woes in China
  4. US Government Shutdown
  5. Revised Income Predictions from Apple.
Put all them together, and one gets the perfect storm.
As much as I like to blame the government in general and Trump in particular for all of our woes, this stock market tumble was a long time coming. Personally I don't think the tariffs had much to do with it, maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back or the triggering event, but let's face it the 2008->2018 stock market expansion was one the the longest (maybe THE longest?) in history, P/E's were as high as they'd been in '99 or '07... stocks were ripe for harvest, the only detail was what day/week/month they'd be harvested.
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Old 01-13-19, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
You sure you had android? What phone did you try?
I have an LG V30+ right now
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Old 01-13-19, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
You sure you had android? What phone did you try?
He could have had a POS... not all Android phone hardware is the same... some of it honestly sucks.

This is the biggest issue when comparing "Android" to "Apple." Android is a number of different hardware manufactures using different flavors of the Android OS, each with their own UI.

Apple is a singular manufacture, and OS, and the UI tends to be fairly consistent.... a "monoculture," so to speak. This one of the biggest reasons for their large following.

Full disclosure... I use a Samsung S5... the wife has a iphone 6S.... and I get to "assist" a lot of folks, with all sorts of phones, due to my tech background.
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Old 01-13-19, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I have an LG V30+ right now
Interesting review and comparison of your hardware... https://www.cnet.com/reviews/lg-v30-review/
It isn't a cheap phone, it isn't a small phone and it isn't perfect. I've used it for a whole month as my daily driver, and I definitely have annoyances to share.
They compare 3 android based devices and 2 apple based devices.
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Old 01-13-19, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
As much as I like to blame the government in general and Trump in particular for all of our woes, this stock market tumble was a long time coming. Personally I don't think the tariffs had much to do with it, maybe it was the straw that broke the camel's back or the triggering event, but let's face it the 2008->2018 stock market expansion was one the the longest (maybe THE longest?) in history, P/E's were as high as they'd been in '99 or '07... stocks were ripe for harvest, the only detail was what day/week/month they'd be harvested.
Perhaps. There are ups and downs in the economy.

I'm not convinced that there is anything fundamentally broken with our economy at the moment, but perhaps the recent growth in 2018 was a bit over-optimistic.

I do think the tariff war is still sending ripples through the economy as it forces prices of goods higher at all levels.

I do expect to see some inflation and increases in the consumer price index driven by the tariffs. And, thus, the increase in fed interest rates may have been the inevitable outcome of the tariff war.

Some investors are over-extended, and inflation and increasing interest rates causes a great pinch on them, causing stocks to be sold.

Our US Government, of course, is also over-extended, and if we see say 20% interest rates, this unlimited borrowing will become problematic.

Perhaps that will be the fatal weakness of the next crash.
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Old 01-13-19, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Interesting review and comparison of your hardware... https://www.cnet.com/reviews/lg-v30-review/


They compare 3 android based devices and 2 apple based devices.
Battery life is worse than apple. Runs apps much more slowly, and the phone is prone to much more frequent random freakouts where things stop working, it locks up, or shuts down. Wireless charging seems to be more a half broken gimmick than anything. And it's harder to use, though the majority of that is probably on me coming from apple and not really feeling like learning a new platform completely.

I will say though that I like the larger display. Makes reading the paper much more pleasant. I'll get the big version of the apple next time
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Old 01-13-19, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
Battery life is worse than apple. Runs apps much more slowly, and the phone is prone to much more frequent random freakouts where things stop working, it locks up, or shuts down. Wireless charging seems to be more a half broken gimmick than anything. And it's harder to use, though the majority of that is probably on me coming from apple and not really feeling like learning a new platform completely.

I will say though that I like the larger display. Makes reading the paper much more pleasant. I'll get the big version of the apple next time
Or try a Samsung... I have found them quite good, without paying the "fruit" premium. My wife loves her iphone 6S and says she'd love to keep it just as is... So, what ever spins your propeller.
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Old 01-13-19, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
I have an LG V30+ right now
Where'd you buy it?
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