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The eventual end of (American) football?

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The eventual end of (American) football?

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Old 01-22-19, 03:24 PM
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Seattle Forrest
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The eventual end of (American) football?

Nobody wants to insure it at any level.
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Old 01-22-19, 03:33 PM
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colorider
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Wow. I suspected the sport would be in trouble in the long run as more and more parents don't allow their kids to play but this could really speed things up.
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Old 01-22-19, 03:38 PM
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Well...They could self-insure.

The problem in any industry is the cover-up. The tobacco companies denying the cancer link. The GMO's interest in secrecy; Sparking distrust in the consumer. The oil companies denying shareholders the known link between their product & climate. They're being investigated by the FTC for defrauding investors.

At some point the back-log of liability just becomes untennable. In this case, it could've all been avoided if every player signed a TBI release form at every level of the game.

Notice how McDonalds doesn't bill their hamburgers as "healthy?"
I wonder why that is.
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Old 01-22-19, 03:50 PM
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I've heard a bunch of retired pros and coaches saying they wouldn't let their kid play football.

There's an episode of Adam Ruins Everything that addresses this; his suggestion IIRC is to basically make the game no-tackle (on the theory that, 'hey, at one point they had to introduce the forward pass, and the game survived'). I don't think the game would survive no-tackle.

Maybe Ultimate (aka 'frisbee football') can rise up in its place.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:03 PM
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Rules changes to satisfy TV networks and bloodthirsty fans ruined football and boxing. I've never been a big football fan anyway so no loss. For years analysts have blamed rules changes and better equipment for encouraging reckless aggressiveness that caused injuries to players on offense and defense alike. Every attempt to rein in the carnage was met with derision by sportswriters, whose bloodthirsty propaganda influenced fans and networks.

Boxing was ruined by a combination of misguided good intentions decades ago, and later by TV and impatient viewers.

The earliest boxing matches, particularly bare-knuckle, were less likely to result in traumatic brain injury from repeated head blows and concussions. It wasn't possible to repeatedly throw punches to the head without breaking knuckles. And through the Joe Gans and Jack Johnson era, boxing was as much Greco-Roman wrestling as it was punching. It favored savvy defensive skills, patience, stamina and jockeying for position.

Little by little boxing was made more dangerous by emphasizing head strike knockouts.

Gloves didn't protect fighters from suffering head injuries. They protected the fighter's fists. It encouraged more and harder head blows. It also made body shots more difficult, as it was easier to deflect big gloves with elbows and forearms. This also encouraged headhunting.

The shift from unlimited/unspecified rounds to 15 round title bouts (and shorter later) favored the aggressive headhunter.

Then the neutral corner rule was introduced, requiring a fighter who had scored a knockdown to wait in a neutral corner while the referee counted, before allowing the fighters to proceed. While this superficially seemed "fair" and like a good idea, it had consequences that may have been unintended and unforeseen.

Before the neutral corner rule, a downed fighter would be unable to continue unless his head was so thoroughly clear and sharp that he still had the reflexes to leap to his feet quickly while avoiding being struck again by the opponent hovering over him. If the downed opponent leaped up too soon and was still dazed, he'd quickly be downed again -- and would often take a knee or stay down long enough to clear his head. There was no three knockdown rule mandatory TKO stoppage. In some cases a knockdown didn't count for extra credit. The emphasis was on outpointing the opponent, or a clean KO.

But the neutral corner rule encouraged downed fighters to be more careless. It actually gave them more time, which wasn't necessarily a good thing. Besides the mandatory count, there are inevitably a few extra seconds while the referee wipes the gloves, checks the downed fighter, the waves the two fighters together again. It's not unusual for every knockdown to result in a "long count" of up to 20 seconds between the knockdown and the fighters re-engaging.

Add to that the misguided standing 8-count and you have a recipe for traumatic brain injury. Fights that would have been stopped or ended sooner were now prolonged as stunned fighters were given just enough time to physically recover their footing, but not enough to clear their heads and regain their defensive wits and mobility.

Then TV saw big money in the exciting heavyweights like Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Mike Tyson and others. The emphasis changed. Nowadays the defensive tactics used by Ali to smother opponents and tie them up would get him penalized and probably disqualified. Only a few great defensive fighters remained and succeeded -- Hector Camacho, the late-career Roberto Duran, Bernard Hopkins, Pernell Whitaker, Floyd Mayweather Jr. Of those, Duran is the least likely to be considered a "defensive" fighter but he had uncanny defensive skills, mostly on the inside where his technique could be lost in a blur of motion.

By now pro boxing has become so unskilled it's rarely fun to watch. Just two guys clobbering each other with reckless abandon, little or no defense, little or no attempt to set up effectively. And those unskilled guys go on to become mediocre trainers passing bad techniques along to the next generation. Only amateur boxing retains some degree of skill, although some fans find it unsatisfying because it's mostly fist fencing.

Fort Worth, my hometown, used to be a mecca for amateur boxing, one of the best in the world. Now it's a ghost of its former self. Maybe that's a good thing.

I'll just go ride my bike in traffic. It's safer.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:13 PM
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Dropping their insurance will not stop football. I'm not sure what will--not even insane ticket prices.

NFL is AFAIK unique among US sports in that players don't have to pay for their own insurance and training and medical bills. WWE isn't like this, of course that is mostly acting....OTOH UFC also isn't like this model at all--and is in $$$$ terms wildly successful. If NFL loses (team) insurance--it'll just be like all the other sports out there, where players have to foot the bill. Which is basically all of them.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:15 PM
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Get rid of the kickoff, eliminate a bunch of football injuries. Also, no more punting.

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Old 01-22-19, 05:30 PM
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Everything will end eventually but the end of football won't come in my lifetime.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:35 PM
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Even if the NFL and NCAA manage to deal with insurance, there will be tons of high schools and pop warner leagues across the country that fail to, which will dry up the pipeline of NFL players. The league will face higher insurance costs, and will not be able to pass those costs on to the fans, who won't be willing to fork out more for less exciting play, and the league will fold.

Any speculation about a bailout should be left to P&R
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Old 01-22-19, 05:39 PM
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In 20 years, NFL and NCAA will be inundated with lawsuits from ex-players. They will be bankrupted. Hard to imagine now...seeing all day football programming on Sat and all day Sunday.

Everyday, medical research is compiling more and more evidence against NFL and NCAA...and their bully tactics to silence critical science researchers, and fund bogus research.

NFL and NCAA will go bankrupt from lawyer fees and court judgements.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 01-22-19 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Even if the NFL and NCAA manage to deal with insurance, there will be tons of high schools and pop warner leagues across the country that fail to, which will dry up the pipeline of NFL players. The league will face higher insurance costs, and will not be able to pass those costs on to the fans, who won't be willing to fork out more for less exciting play, and the league will fold.

Any speculation about a bailout should be left to P&R
Yeah, the NFL could self insure.

Not sure about colleges.

High Schools with no Football Budget?

Are TBI's part of HS and College Football? The other issue is kids with long-term injuries.

On the other hand, inactive blimps for kids brings other risks.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Even if the NFL and NCAA manage to deal with insurance, there will be tons of high schools and pop warner leagues across the country that fail to, which will dry up the pipeline of NFL players. The league will face higher insurance costs, and will not be able to pass those costs on to the fans, who won't be willing to fork out more for less exciting play, and the league will fold.

Any speculation about a bailout should be left to P&R
Originally Posted by mtb_addict View Post
In 20 years, NFL and NCAA will be inundated with lawsuits from ex-players. They will be bankrupted. Hard to imagine now...seeing all day football programming on Sat and all day Sunday.

Everyday, medical research is compiling more and more evidence against NFL and NCAA...and their bully tactics to silence critical science researchers, and fund bogus research.

NFL and NCAA will go bankrupt from lawyer fees and court judgements.
The NCAA won't. They're all but insulated.

The courts have held for 60 years now that so long as college "student athletes" are not attaining taxable-income from their football-ing efforts, they're not employees as a class. And therefore neither the NCAA nor the member universities are liable for medical care for injury during aforesaid activity. And believe me, parents have been suing the NCAA for college kids rendered paraplegiac and quadriplegiac for 60 years over those court rulings to no avail.


BTW-the origination of the legal term "student athlete" arose out of the court-case that found that NCAA football kids were not employees, nor were universities/NCAA liable for workman's compensation for them. The courts FWIW knew the linguistic game that the NCAA and its million-dollar-an-hour team of lawyers were playing...but given the law as written on the books their position was ruled in favor of.

Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 01-22-19 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 01-22-19, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
There will always be inner city kids for whom a professional football career is the ticket out of poverty.

As long as these kids exist, and their parents approve, football will remain well and alive.
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Old 01-22-19, 06:13 PM
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Take away all the protective gear and watch the violence come down. Those guys only hit each other with such reckless abandon because they’re protected. The vicious hits of the NFL don’t exist in rugby or Aussie rules football.


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Old 01-22-19, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
Take away all the protective gear and watch the violence come down. Those guys only hit each other with such reckless abandon because they’re protected. The vicious hits of the NFL don’t exist in rugby or Aussie rules football.


-Kedosto
Historically incorrect.

The reason the NCAA was formed...was because college kids were outright being killed dead on the field during regular play (due to lack of protective gear). The year prior to Teddy Roosevelt calling for the NCAA to be founded, 2 dozen college kids were killed playing football. And that was just outright fatalities, NVM all the permanently crippled and brain damaged kids.
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Old 01-22-19, 06:25 PM
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Let's also consider than a hundred years ago, a typical NFL player was 5'11" and weighed 190-200lbs. Today, an "average" player is 6'3" and weighs 280lbs-- and he moves faster.
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Old 01-22-19, 07:57 PM
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I could live with just Rugby, no problem.

FWIW: Rugby players do get injured, too.
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Old 01-22-19, 08:26 PM
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How long until headers will be made illegal in Soccer?
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Old 01-22-19, 08:34 PM
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American football started as rugby, so going back to that could be easiest. With cheerleaders, drunk fans may not know the difference. I recall rugby union games being as long and boring as football.
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Old 01-22-19, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by skidder View Post
I could live with just Rugby, no problem.

FWIW: Rugby players do get injured, too.
Or Australian rules, totally different sport than Rugby but both share the tough human element and great fun to watch. Even more exciting now with all of the already mentioned changes in the NFL..
My family were diehard NFL followers for years and we all eventually drifted away from it. We traveled to several games a year, went to training camp etc.. Still diehard fans from our home town and the team but just don't follow the sport much anymore. We have zero plans for the SB this year and although if I am home and around the TV I'd watch some but I am not deviating from any other plans to watch it.
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Old 01-22-19, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
There is a new kid on the block called the Alliance of American Football, https://aaf.com/ I wonder how they'll do?
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Old 01-22-19, 10:34 PM
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Bring back the Roman Empire gladiator matches. None of this NFL sissy stuff each year I drift away from the NFL it’s just boring.
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Old 01-23-19, 09:32 AM
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Football should be just left to die. Plenty of other great sports to enjoy that don't give players devastating health problems. Like baseball, basketball, golf, and soccer.

Last edited by mtb_addict; 01-23-19 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 01-23-19, 09:36 AM
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NFL isn't going anywhere. Mafia/Vegas has too much money wrapped up in it rigging/betting on games.
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Old 01-23-19, 09:56 AM
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well, there's always this......

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