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My heart goes out to France

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My heart goes out to France

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Old 04-15-19, 02:25 PM
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My heart goes out to France

Notre Dame Cathedral is being destroyed by fire. :-(
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Old 04-15-19, 04:25 PM
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Feel the same way, such an iconic symbol of a beautiful city.

I was in it about 38 years ago on my first Paris trip, but hazy memories of the interior.

At the reports of 12 midnight Paris time they saying they've saved the basic structure from collapse, which I assume means everything stone. Heroic efforts on the part of the City of Paris Fire Department no doubt.

Still, very emotional to watch such a symbol burn.
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Old 04-15-19, 04:56 PM
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I'm by no means religious. On a good day, I might describe myself as an agnostic, still, I'm saddened to see/hear what must be devastating to Catholics around the world, and those in France in particular.
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Old 04-15-19, 06:00 PM
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a sad loss of history, culture, art and beauty
solidarité avec les français
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Old 04-15-19, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
At the reports of 12 midnight Paris time they saying they've saved the basic structure from collapse, which I assume means everything stone.
I've always wondered about that kind of thing -- stone doesn't burn, and I imagine mortar doesn't either. So wouldn't all the wood/fabric decoration burn inside, leaving a perfect structural shell that could be redecorated? Or does the intense heat somehow cause enough of the stone/mortar in the arches to break, and then everything collapse?

Hopefully if they did save the structure, they can get it reinforced with temporary steel beams quickly while they work on a longer-term restoration.
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Old 04-15-19, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I've always wondered about that kind of thing -- stone doesn't burn, and I imagine mortar doesn't either. So wouldn't all the wood/fabric decoration burn inside, leaving a perfect structural shell that could be redecorated? Or does the intense heat somehow cause enough of the stone/mortar in the arches to break, and then everything collapse?

Hopefully if they did save the structure, they can get it reinforced with temporary steel beams quickly while they work on a longer-term restoration.
Recall that the basic structure was built some 700-800 years ago. In some cases and in some buildings I’ve seen from that era, the interior wooden structure supports the exterior stone. I’ve no actual knowledge of how ND was constructed and from what I’m reading they actually prevented the fire from reaching all the roof, so they got lucky it seems that the whole structure didn’t collapse.

EDIT: From a bit of reading, the buttresses took the weight of the roof, with the famous flying buttresses taking the load of the upper walls. I’m certain there was and is concern that with the loss of the wooden load of the roof, they will be worried about the integrity of the buttressing.

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Old 04-15-19, 11:04 PM
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So much history literally going up in smoke. This is so sad. And I am sure the finding will be is because someone did something very stupid.
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Old 04-16-19, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post


Recall that the basic structure was built some 700-800 years ago. In some cases and in some buildings I’ve seen from that era, the interior wooden structure supports the exterior stone. I’ve no actual knowledge of how ND was constructed and from what I’m reading they actually prevented the fire from reaching all the roof, so they got lucky it seems that the whole structure didn’t collapse.

EDIT: From a bit of reading, the buttresses took the weight of the roof, with the famous flying buttresses taking the load of the upper walls. I’m certain there was and is concern that with the loss of the wooden load of the roof, they will be worried about the integrity of the buttressing.
All these Gothic cathedrals and churches seem structurally pretty much the same, and I've seen the inside of a lot more of them than I liked. It's all stone including the rib vaults at the top and the maconnery in between. On top of that there's a wooden roof, but that's just a small part of the weight supported by the flying butresses. It's probably just overengineered in the sense that it can just take the extra weight of the wooden roof instead of it all balancing out exactly. Otherwise they would have had a collapse problem to deal with during the 200 year constrcution as long as the wooden roof wasn't installed. Damage to the stone structure probably has to come from falling pieces of the wooden roof.

Many of these churches have been hit by fires and bombs and are still standing, they get damaged but don't collapse. So I wasn't really surprised to see it still standing this morning. As I understand, most of the damage is to the parts that had been restored before in past centuries. But there was a lot of yellow smoke, could come from led in the roof, but also from the stained glass windows. It's going to be a huge restoration job if you look to it from today's perspective, but if you look at it from the perspective of the buildings entire life span and what it and simular churches have had to endure, it's just a flesh wound.

Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
I'm by no means religious. On a good day, I might describe myself as an agnostic, still, I'm saddened to see/hear what must be devastating to Catholics around the world, and those in France in particular.
I think it's an icon beyond catholicism and beyond France. It's just one of those landmarks that have always been there and are supposed to always remain there, and it's destruction is shocking to everybody.
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Old 04-16-19, 07:45 AM
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Their insurance company is already claiming it is an act of God.
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Old 04-16-19, 08:02 AM
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Notre Dame Owners: "No, it was the Devil that caused the fire."

Insurance Co: "Yes, but who is it that created the Devil and is responsible for his existence in the first place?"

Notre Dame Owners: "You've got us there. We stand corrected."
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Old 04-16-19, 08:45 AM
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it will be repaired. In 2015 there was a laser scan made recording the entire structure:

Comprehensive 3D scan of Notre Dame offers hope for restoration - News - GCR

And there are plenty of donations coming in to finance the repairs.
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Old 04-16-19, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
I think it's an icon beyond catholicism and beyond France. It's just one of those landmarks that have always been there and are supposed to always remain there, and it's destruction is shocking to everybody.
Very true. Regardless of one’s faith or lack of faith, the old cathedrals are part of France’s heritage.
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Old 04-16-19, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Aubergine View Post

Very true. Regardless of one’s faith or lack of faith, the old cathedrals are part of France’s heritage.
Yes, and it's part of people's neighbourhood, or they see it everyday on their commute, or it's been part of their day trips or vacations, part of novels, people just feel attached. The city I live in is probably one of the most atheistic in the world, but the 300 ft bell tower is the whole city's pride (the church itself is not that special), the idea that it's more theirs (the catholics) than ours (every inhabitant) never comes up.
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Old 04-16-19, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post

And there are plenty of donations coming in to finance the repairs.
Two individuals have already pledged a combined amount of $339 million.
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Old 04-17-19, 01:24 PM
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This is really confusing because I've been told Europeans rake their churches.
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