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My usual rant about wireless headphones... next level.

Old 12-06-19, 08:04 AM
  #1  
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My usual rant about wireless headphones... next level.

Apple is pushing to make a future iphone a wireless slab of glass. No connectors of any kind. Maybe 2021.


Now, from a high tech designer point of view (and yes, that IS what I do) I can totally embrace this... the clean look, the environment-proof aspect, and security and style aspects are all outstanding. I often envisioned making an U/W camera this way decades ago... (should have, but life got in the way)

I commend Apple for taking this step. This would finally rid users of all the awkward plugs and jacks... right?

Or would it?
Apple’s goal with the 2021 iPhone is to “provide the completely wireless experience.” The change would first come to the “highest-end model,” then spread downmarket to the rest of the iPhone lineup.

The hurdles:

2021 seems optimistic for an iPhone without Lightning or USB-C. In my mind, there are a few major hurdles: fast charging, CarPlay, on-the-go charging, and diagnostics.

Wireless charging is incredibly convenient around the house and even in the car, but that’s not always the case. When out and about, using a portable battery is one of the easiest ways to recharge your iPhone. With a wireless charger, this isn’t really possible.

Lastly, CarPlay. While some
newer cars and head units support wireless CarPlay, the vast majority don’t. And it’s highly unlikely that the majority of iPhone users will buy a car with wireless CarPlay by 2021.
https://9to5mac.com/2019/12/05/compl...e-hurdles/amp/

And of course my typical argument... this puts the burden on the user to carry bulky chargers, adapters, and interface devices to do what simply could be built in to the phone.

I love the glass slab concept... but I fear the result.

You would have a perfect slab of very stylish glass, a'la a Next Gen Star Trek data device... and then have to carry a "backpack" of support crap.

I commend Apple, but I also wish they would produce a well working "ugly phone," with the same 5G technology, display and all, but with ports... Lightning, charging, RAM, USB, headphones, etc, for us "unstylish geeks."

Guess I'll have to keep using ugly older android devices... so I can actually "connect" to anything. SIGH.
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Old 12-06-19, 08:26 AM
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I want my rotary phone back
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Old 12-06-19, 11:36 PM
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i like the next levels that apple brings their products to. 2 years is a long time in technology and batteries/charging can be much more efficient and quicker in 2 years. You seem to really like all your cables but I’d actually wait to whine about this until these new phones actually become products for sale…..that written, I’m sure i’ll enjoy these new phones and 5g.
I have a wireless charger that’s also a portable battery (it gives a few full charge cycles) and works as a charger at home, in the car or wherever i am. The extra room to carry the one i have for travel (not much more than a regular portable battery) is so minimal that i haven’t ever given it a negative thought.....and since i keep track of my phones battery level i can easily have it charged enough for whatever use i need that day even without a portable battery.

i have no problems with my wired apple car play and with the number of manufactures and models that have that today it doesn’t take much thinking to see wireless being much more available in the coming years when it would be needed by more people.
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Old 12-06-19, 11:47 PM
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For genec , a $400 slab of screen with a headphone outlet.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...esign-for-400/
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Old 12-07-19, 12:06 AM
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They don’t call it “the bleeding edge” for nothing. Early adopters often pay with more than money. How bad do you want it? Apple’s always been ready to bet the market will do whatever it takes to stay out front and in fashion. So far, they haven’t been wrong.

-Kedosto
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Old 12-07-19, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
They don’t call it “the bleeding edge” for nothing. Early adopters often pay with more than money. How bad do you want it? Apple’s always been ready to bet the market will do whatever it takes to stay out front and in fashion. So far, they haven’t been wrong.
-Kedosto
new tech costs more at the beginning for r/d costs too. i always wait until a product/upgrade has a large enough user base to solved its problems.....and in some cases i wait for a lesser price if what i have still works well for what i need. At the moment all i need for my phone/airpods is even a small charging mat......others can keep using cables if they want i just don't have any need for them anymore.
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Old 12-07-19, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
i like the next levels that apple brings their products to. 2 years is a long time in technology and batteries/charging can be much more efficient and quicker in 2 years. You seem to really like all your cables but I’d actually wait to whine about this until these new phones actually become products for sale…..that written, I’m sure i’ll enjoy these new phones and 5g.
I have a wireless charger that’s also a portable battery (it gives a few full charge cycles) and works as a charger at home, in the car or wherever i am. The extra room to carry the one i have for travel (not much more than a regular portable battery) is so minimal that i haven’t ever given it a negative thought.....and since i keep track of my phones battery level i can easily have it charged enough for whatever use i need that day even without a portable battery.

i have no problems with my wired apple car play and with the number of manufactures and models that have that today it doesn’t take much thinking to see wireless being much more available in the coming years when it would be needed by more people.
I carry two items... one, a wired set of earbuds that is a microphone too... and delivers superior audio than wireless buds, has no battery, and requires no charger, and plays for well over 2 or 4 hours. (I have 14 hours of music on my phone)

The other item is a folding high watt charger with USB c cable.

I need no other adaptors, or chargers... or connection cords.

I have the ability to connect to any Bluetooth equipped vehicle. Or any older vehicle... the latter with a simple audio cable... wireless iphones audio require an expensive adapter to make a similar connection.

I can connect to any USB port on any computer, back up, and charge at the same time. Again, fully wireless iphones will require an expensive adapter.

Yes, the closed environment of Apple is wonderful, where it works. And if you only need their apps. And don't mind carrying their exclusive adapters... however, if you need to connect to the other 80% of the computing world. (Or is it now 75%)... then what? Or don't drive a car made in the last 10 years? Then what?

I love the idea of the all glass slab, but again, it comes at the expense of "adapteritis."

I will admit that a smooth, cool looking, thin, glass slab will look great as an accessory to a "little black dress" on a glamorous night out... or slipped in the pocket of tight jeans. It will be quite the fashion statement.

Do iphones have direct to direct wireless connections yet... NFC or IR... I seem to recall my wife and sister in law needing my android device to become a wifi hotspot so they could exchange photos when we were out in the desert, off the grid. Hmmm, an android "adapter." LOL. This was with iphone 6SE... so maybe Apple has realized someone may need off the grid communications today.

Does your portable wireless charger charge your earbuds too... and is it less than 1 inch cube in overall size? The little white Apple phone chargers are this size... is your wireless charger(s) that small?

Oh, and 5G... interesting that Apple is having to work closely with Qualcomm, who they sued, to catch up, with Samsung, to get 5G. (You may not be aware of this little tech giant battle... users don't often follow the "trade wars" behind their devices... which at the moment has iphone "11" using slower cellular modems...)
​​​​​​
Can't wait for 2021... to see what it really brings. TTFN

Last edited by genec; 12-07-19 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 12-07-19, 02:26 AM
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my iphone, ipad or computer connects to my car’s hot spot easily and quickly through bluetooth and works well. i don't need my phone for music in the car as i use either sirius or my ipad and at home i have a good sound system that is as good as it gets. i use my phone as a phone and don't expect it to be my computer. i can also download anything off my phone to my MacBook or ipad without a wire or adapter.

as far as qualcomm i remember your rant about the supposed legal problems in the EU that had already been decided in apples favor. A good look at your research ability. the U.S. issues were settled nine months ago.

as far as your predictable references to ‘style’ some see that as delusional and the belittling of people who see apple as a company that makes good products that work very well for their needs......like me.

eta…and for my iphone and my use, other than a charging pad i have no need for any other adaptors, or chargers...and NO connection cords.

now be a good boy and go to bed....and have a good weekend……
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Last edited by clemsongirl; 12-07-19 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 12-07-19, 06:53 AM
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Look into the actual modem and comparison specs of the latest iphones using the intel chips.

Does that charging pad fit into your pocket?

And yes, the next 4 hours of sleep were wonderful... now I can get back to the office and fix the problem in the design I am working on, where someone decided to ground an RF output pin with a GND symbol, rather than a quarter wave shorted stub. ARRRRRG! So much for meeting deadlines.

Reason number 47 "why I retired early."

BTW, do you and all your wireless earbud friends enjoy the little microwave ovens you insert in your heads?

Bluetooth networking transmits data via low-power radio waves. It communicates on a frequency of 2.45 gigahertz (actually between 2.400 GHz and 2.483.5 GHz, to be exact) [source: Bluetooth SIG].

one of the ways Bluetooth devices avoid interfering with other systems is by sending out very weak signals of about 100 milliwatts [source: PCMag Encyclopedia]. Using low power limits the range of a Bluetooth device to about 656.2 feet (200 meters), cutting the chances of interference between your computer system and your portable telephone or television...

When Bluetooth-capable devices come within range of one another, an electronic conversation takes place to determine whether they have data to share or whether one needs to control the other... the transmitters change frequencies 1,600 times every second. The user doesn't have to press a button or give a command — the electronic conversation happens automatically.
Now, to be honest, microwave ovens operate at 1.9 GHz... and 600 to 1200 watts, but then earbuds, transmitters in your head, were not the first vision of Bluetooth technology... it was designed for device to device communication.

I wonder what the long term effects of low level RF energy IN YOUR HEAD will be... we'll find out, in say 10 years or so.

Last edited by genec; 12-07-19 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 12-07-19, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I want my rotary phone back
Will look great in your hippie shack.
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Old 12-07-19, 07:48 AM
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Get off my lawn!
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Old 12-07-19, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Get off my lawn!
Yes indeed. But keep in mind, I am a "grounds keeper." (High tech design engineer)
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Old 12-07-19, 11:09 AM
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A picture of Gene with his ideal mobile:


Last edited by ahsposo; 12-07-19 at 11:24 AM. Reason: word choice
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Old 12-07-19, 12:12 PM
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I really don't understand the problem. There are still phones being made that accommodate wired shackles. Yours still works, right? Why is it an issue that some phones are being made without this port and that other people are buying them? Most people have no need or want for a tether around their neck, and it's good that they're getting what they want.
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Old 12-07-19, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
A picture of Gene with his ideal mobile:

I'd need two... for that full quad sound.
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Old 12-08-19, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I really don't understand the problem. There are still phones being made that accommodate wired shackles. Yours still works, right? Why is it an issue that some phones are being made without this port and that other people are buying them? Most people have no need or want for a tether around their neck, and it's good that they're getting what they want.

Yeah, yeah... guess I'm just not one of the cool kids... I need a "tether."

OK, fine... as long as someone still makes "tethered" boxy ugly "fones" for the nerd set.

Ahhh. Wires. Sort of like Linus and his blanket.

Last edited by genec; 12-08-19 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 12-08-19, 04:35 AM
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My Walkman has little membrane speakers.
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Old 12-08-19, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
My Walkman has little membrane speakers.

Oh, a Walkman... you're cool too. So, like, you don't put little microwave ovens in your head either, eh.
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Old 12-08-19, 05:34 AM
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If I put it in a zipper bag it's weatherproof. I can still hear traffic as well.

I don't have a phone in my shoe either.

You've been up all night too?
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Old 12-08-19, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I'd need two... for that full quad sound.
That's only Hafler at best.
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Old 12-08-19, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
If I put it in a zipper bag it's weatherproof. I can still hear traffic as well.

I don't have a phone in my shoe either.

You've been up all night too?
Never "up all night..." (at least not in the last 10 years or so...)

But I do often wake up at pretty regular intervals... see, there are these train tracks nearby... Did you know the sanctioned train whistle for approaching a crossing is 2 longs, a short, and a long... and each engineer has their own unique signature... some really enjoying the "longs." I also like sleeping with the window open on cool nights. Do the math.
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Old 12-08-19, 09:30 AM
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I absolutely love wireless charging. And if phone makers would simply abandon the pursuit of making phones so thin that they become two-dimensional, we could have batteries that last more than one day of normal use.

The headphone jack is becoming extinct on higher-end phones and that's fine by me. I use a BT amp and wired headphones.
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Old 12-08-19, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
I absolutely love wireless charging. And if phone makers would simply abandon the pursuit of making phones so thin that they become two-dimensional, we could have batteries that last more than one day of normal use.

The headphone jack is becoming extinct on higher-end phones and that's fine by me. I use a BT amp and wired headphones.
Ironically the latest Apple devices ARE thicker for the very reason you stated.

Oh, a BT AMP... And a wireless charger... you carry all that in your backpack, eh?

Sadly, wireless headphones have always been an option... wired headphone options are going away... limiting your choices.

But again, I totally see the sealed chunk of glass concept... and why. I also see the downside.

Maybe a cooler approach would be a thin phone inside of a thicker phone... the thin phone could be the "fashion statement phone" and completely wireless... the thinnest sealed glass "card" that can be made. The larger "docking" phone could house the "thin phone" as a core device, and the "dock" would have physical jacks for for everything, and more battery capacity., and wirelessly charge the thin phone. Sort of an inverted spin on the Moto Mod idea... but with more grace and style. The ultimate case. But to really make this work, the thin phone "core" has to be really thin... maybe 4 hours of use time. You saw that idea here, first. Damn... gotta go patent that!!!
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Old 12-08-19, 11:49 AM
  #24  
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Disclaimer: I have not read this thread in its entirety.

For any critical headphone use I will always defer to a wired headset. Listening to music as a distraction i.e. gym, walk, cleaning the house doesn't mandate anything more than acceptable.
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Old 12-08-19, 12:03 PM
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It's traditional for Apple fans to gripe about losing the audio jack but (not a great Apple fan) they got that right as far as I'm concerned.

I'll grant that I like the port for the ubiquitous USB charging. But when wireless charging also becomes ubiquitous I won't miss it, and I have no use for an audio jack. No ports at all would be outstanding.

You know, the "slab of glass" is not only environmentally sealed but also stronger - every hole you cut in it creates a stress riser point. It's pretty much all upside as far as I can tell.

edit: I'd like to point out to Genec that there's no overwhelming technical reason that the wireless earbud receiver has to be near your head, if you don't mind wires going from the receiver to the speakers. Don't tell me that it defeats the purpose - all of the stereo earbuds that I've seen still have wires between them.

Last edited by wphamilton; 12-08-19 at 12:07 PM.
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