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This CBD craze is getting way out of control

Old 12-21-19, 09:55 AM
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This CBD craze is getting way out of control

Today while browsing the Bed Bath & Beyond flyer we get in the mail I noticed they're selling a CBD oil infused pillow.

I'm trying to think of something that it doesn't claim to cure or fix.
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Old 12-21-19, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
Today while browsing the Bed Bath & Beyond flyer we get in the mail I noticed they're selling a CBD oil infused pillow.

I'm trying to think of something that it doesn't claim to cure or fix.
There's duct tape and WD-40 for those.
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Old 12-21-19, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
Today while browsing the Bed Bath & Beyond flyer we get in the mail I noticed they're selling a CBD oil infused pillow.

I'm trying to think of something that it doesn't claim to cure or fix.
Basically anything not psychosomatic or very-similar to....most of the non psychosomatic ills have been tested and CBD debunked as a treatment. There are some very limited areas where it has actually been clinically validated, but those areas are very narrow:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cbd...-miracle-cure/

The junk is so rampant...you can get CBD for pets. Yup. You can get the stuff specifically for Fido. Of course, there are similarly chiropractors and acupuncturists for dogs too. No shortage of nonsense that people will spend money on.
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Old 12-21-19, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
There's duct tape and WD-40 for those.
Do you put the WD 40 on the sticky side of the tape, or the non stick side?
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Old 12-21-19, 10:19 AM
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I guess my logic would be... If this stuff is so great at curing people's pains wouldn't the people who harvest it and are around it all day long turn into some sort of super-human race?
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Old 12-21-19, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
I guess my logic would be... If this stuff is so great at curing people's pains wouldn't the people who harvest it and are around it all day long turn into some sort of super-human race?
The thing with placebo effect....it doesn't work on logic.
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Old 12-21-19, 10:46 AM
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Oh, good CBD works alright. Emphasis on the good stuff. It's not easy to find and there's a lot of junk out there, mostly oil and extracts from hemp seeds and stems that contain little or no CBD. I probably tried half a dozen brands before finding one that worked.

During my yearlong bout with injuries (hit by a car while I was riding my bike) and thyroid cancer (resolved with surgery, no metastasis or chemo so far) I had chronic pain that made it almost impossible to sleep, often for days at a time. Friends suggested CBD.

I was very skeptical and the first several brands I tried did absolutely nothing. Some friends who are dedicated stoners and unabashed cannabis fans seemed to believe it's the cure for everything. I quit the weed as a teenager almost 50 years ago and considered them to be harmless but delusional. I was particularly annoyed by the claims that it cured cancer. That's not what the research cited says. It helps relieve the nausea and loss of appetite, which encourages folks with cancer to eat, which improves their chances of recovery. No research ever said it cured cancer. And for some folks it relieves pain.

But by the summer of 2018 I was exhausted from the pain and lack of rest. So when friends passed a THC vape pen I tried a puff. Same old sensation I remembered from decades earlier. The problem with the THC buzz is it's pleasant for about 15-30 minutes, then I'm bored with it. But the danged sensation drags on for hours. And it didn't help my pain or sleep. As it turns out, research indicates cannabis is most effective for pain relief when the THC content is present only at a fairly low level with CBD. THC alone or CBD isolates do little or nothing for pain relief for some folks. (In cannabis culture lingo, they call that the entourage effect.)

Then a manager at a local health food store suggested kratom instead of CBD. That really did the trick. I've written extensively about it before on Foo and 50+ so I won't repeat the pros and potential cons. It's excellent for relief from mild to moderate pain and associated anxiety. But it can result in dependency, comparable to coffee or tobacco, so folks need to be fully informed and cautious. But there's no justification for the negative hype reminiscent of the melodramatic "Reefer Madness" hysteria.

Then somehow I stumbled onto Lazarus Naturals. Probably because I Googled CBD while logged into my Google account - Google started promoting CBD related articles to my news feed. I think that's where I saw an article that mentioned Lazarus Naturals and their generous discount for military veterans like me.

I tried it. It definitely works. But, for me, only the high potency full spectrum oil with a tiny bit of THC as an adjunct to the CBD. None of their other products did anything for me -- the CBD isolates, topical analgesics, the highly touted Rick Simpson Oil (RSO). None of those did a thing for me. But the full spectrum high potency stuff in liquid or gel capsules really does work for me.

I've been using Lazarus Naturals products for more than a year. Usually a few drops in morning coffee -- I always wake up in pain -- and a little at night before bed. Really helps. The effect is subtle. There's no high. The relief is stronger than OTC analgesics like ibuprofen, aspirin or acetaminophen, but not quite as strong as the milder opiates like hydrocodone or tramadol. I wouldn't recommend it for more severe pain. If the pain is 7 or higher on a scale of 10, you'll probably need something stronger. But for mild to moderate chronic pain that hinders sleep and makes it difficult to concentrate on daily tasks, I'd highly recommend a good quality CBD. It's pricey, but Lazarus offers generous discounts to veterans, folks with disabilities or low income, with supporting documentation -- DD-214 discharge paper, evidence of being on Medicaid, SSI or SSDI. Wonderful company. They just recently awarded a lifetime supply of CBD to several disabled veterans. My disability is not combat related so I didn't apply for that offer. The standard discount for veteran's is more than generous enough and I can afford it with careful budgeting.

Check the independent lab tests for brands that do incorporate the tiny amount of THC permitted by the FDA to qualify as CBD rather than a controlled substance -- 0.3%. IIRC, Lazarus is well under that amount, around 0.1% or less THC, but still enough to work well in conjunction with CBD.

And FWIW, the best topical analgesic I've found it Ted's Pain Cream. Google them and read the summaries and tech papers. Apparently resveratrol (mostly from grape leaves or Japanese knot weed) is very effective as a topical for some types of chronic pain. It's really helped with the lingering pain from two serious collisions that caused neck and shoulder injuries. But I doubt it can penetrate enough to relieve deeper tissue pain. For me it's helped with surface level pain from injuries that healed but still ached around the shoulder, scapula, etc. Long after those injuries technically healed I had hotspots that hurt to the slightest touch, places about the size of a dime between the spine and scapula. Using Ted's as directed (three times a day for a couple of weeks) did the trick where chiropractors and physical therapy failed.

I've tried topical CBD from Lazarus a few times and it doesn't really work as effectively as Ted's Pain Cream. But occasionally I'll buy small samplers from Lazarus to give to friends, the sample packs include the topical stuff.
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Old 12-21-19, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
But by the summer of 2018 I was exhausted from the pain and lack of rest. So when friends passed a THC vape pen I tried a puff. Same old sensation I remembered from decades earlier. The problem with the THC buzz is it's pleasant for about 15-30 minutes, then I'm bored with it. But the danged sensation drags on for hours.
This is the reason I only get high about once every 2 years... I have things to do! I enjoy the sensation as much as I ever had, it's just the damn lingering on throughout the day.
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Old 12-21-19, 11:40 AM
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It seems like the dog treats are the only successful ones of all the CBD stores. They are in every mini-mall in suburban Chicago, and they come and go quicker than vapor shops. I'm a big fan of cannabis but touting it like snake oil and selling products of dubious quality and safety is probably going to lead to some more strict regulation.

I've heard a number of stories of people failing drug tests for THC after religiously using CBD products, so use them with caution if you're worried about a potential drug test.
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Old 12-21-19, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
This is the reason I only get high about once every 2 years... I have things to do! I enjoy the sensation as much as I ever had, it's just the damn lingering on throughout the day.
Exactly. That's why I quit in my teens. I had stuff to do. And an older cousin got me into boxing as a teenager. I discovered the buzz I got from endorophins and brain chemicals were better than any drug, and mostly free. Other than the sore muscles and bruises. Now in my early 60s, exercise is still the best thing I've found for relief from chronic pain and anxiety. But I know that isn't practical for everyone and it doesn't give everyone that same brain chemical reward so they don't feel motivated.

I know some folks who are productive even while high. Well, not really high. With regular use the THC high dissipates somewhat. A friend who owns his own business stays very busy and productive. He uses it in small doses daily to cope with chronic pain, including some uncomfortable GI problems. For him it relaxes the GI tract enough to make it tolerable to work. I admire folks who can do that.

Not me. I'd be a couch potato. Same reason I avoid using my prescription pain meds. Makes me too lazy. I took one cyclobenzaprine yesterday for painful neck and shoulder spasms, mostly so I could get to my medical appointment (twice a year cancer screening and thyroid followup). But I took the bus. No driving. And as soon as I got home I flopped into bed and didn't wake up until midnight for a snack. Then fell asleep again until 8 am. Slept more than 12 hours, just from a single dose of the lowest strength muscle relaxer.

That's the main reason I appreciate a good quality CBD and very moderate usage of kratom. Zaps the moderate pain without those side effects so I can get stuff done.
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Old 12-21-19, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Basically anything not psychosomatic or very-similar to....most of the non psychosomatic ills have been tested and CBD debunked as a treatment. There are some very limited areas where it has actually been clinically validated, but those areas are very narrow:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cbd...-miracle-cure/

The junk is so rampant...you can get CBD for pets. Yup. You can get the stuff specifically for Fido. Of course, there are similarly chiropractors and acupuncturists for dogs too. No shortage of nonsense that people will spend money on.
My neighbor puts it in her cat's water.
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Old 12-21-19, 01:00 PM
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This stuff is everywhere now. At Kiosk's in the mall. I've even seen it sold in my grocery store. They claim it can cure virtually everything.
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Old 12-21-19, 01:17 PM
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Hey, I give CBD to my cats too. Well, my mom's cats -- I adopted them after she died around this time last year. It's actually only supposed to be for the oldest cat. She's around 15 years old, best I can figure. Anyway, the dowager empress Siamese was losing weight, her fur was thin and she hobbled around stiffly.

I figured a cat wouldn't be likely to experience a placebo effect. So I started putting CBD isolate (no THC) in the water dish. Seemed less traumatic than trying to force a dropper into her mouth every day. And it wouldn't hurt the younger cats. Sure enough, within a few weeks the old lady cat was gaining weight, her coat was thicker and she's livelier. Even plays a little once in awhile.

I got both the CBD isolate and full spectrum for the cats. Can't tell any difference in the effects, although I haven't been very methodical about using only one type for at least a week. Supposedly the full spectrum is more calming, but my cats are pretty chill already.

I understand the skepticism. I was as skeptical as anyone when friends were hyping cannabis and CBD. But it works for me. And the cats.
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Old 12-21-19, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Basically anything not psychosomatic or very-similar to....most of the non psychosomatic ills have been tested and CBD debunked as a treatment. There are some very limited areas where it has actually been clinically validated, but those areas are very narrow:

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cbd...-miracle-cure/

The junk is so rampant...you can get CBD for pets. Yup. You can get the stuff specifically for Fido. Of course, there are similarly chiropractors and acupuncturists for dogs too. No shortage of nonsense that people will spend money on.
Yep, you sure wouldn't want people using anything safe and natural when they could spend more money on riskier products.
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Old 12-21-19, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by no motor? View Post
Yep, you sure wouldn't want people using anything safe and natural when they could spend more money on riskier products.
Just because something is natural doesn't mean it is good. Asbestos and arsenic and Mercury are natural too.

Just because something is safe and natural doesn't mean it has any efficacy. I'd suggest reviewing the history of the word "snake oil". So far there's minimal peer reviewed science....and most of the espoused benefits are anecdotal and sound exactly like the kind of things placebos cover all the time. Maybe that will change, we'll see.
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Old 12-21-19, 05:49 PM
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Shouldn't they mix the CBD with DMSO on the pillow?
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Old 12-21-19, 08:58 PM
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MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) is more common now than DMSO as a transdermal carrier for topical analgesics.
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Old 12-21-19, 09:23 PM
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Oregon Liquor Control Commission (OLCC) has announced a ban on CBD infused alcoholic beverages but you can still legally drink CBD infused soft drinks. And yes, people believe if helps but getting sloshed probably does it more.

Remember to stay away from these folks, the grey aliens refuse to abduct them...
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Old 12-21-19, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) is more common now than DMSO as a transdermal carrier for topical analgesics.
Hmmm... my point was that it wasn't long ago that DMSO was being sold on street corners and out of the back of trunks as the cure-all wonder drug, only moderately regulated.

As I understand it, it did its job too well, and will cause the absorption of unwanted impurities too.

Anyway, just imagine combining two back ally wonder drugs (although it is a good point that everything is better with alcohol).
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Old 12-21-19, 11:13 PM
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I haven’t smoked a joint in years I think 2002 it was. For Pete Sakes it’s just a weed. You can’t OD on hippie lettuce. Safe and natural and mellow. People high on pot only wan’t to chill. Just make it legal everywhere already. I was in Oregon last summer and people smoking at the KOA camp was hardly noticeable and no one even cared. Like so what he or she is smoking a bowl by the campfire all chilled out. I regret not smoking any when I was there. Definitely next time I’m in Oregon. I had a bad hangover on a fishing trip years ago one of the fellow fisherman out of nowhere rolled a joint said smoke this you will feel much better and it was like a miracle. My nausea my gone and back to fishing I went. I do have a greenhouse on my place so just maybe..
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Old 12-22-19, 01:04 AM
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When i went through chemo/radiation treatments, with my oncologist we worked out a cannabidiol strategy that helped more as an inhibitor of the inflammatory process for anti-tumor therapies and without any of the side-effects when compared with my first normally prescribed anti-nausea medication. So any statement that there are no medical advantages isn’t true for me.

There are a lot of good studies in/by the National Center for Biotechnology Information on CBD use for those who really want to be educated about it.
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Old 12-22-19, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
When i went through chemo/radiation treatments, with my oncologist we worked out a cannabidiol strategy that helped more as an inhibitor of the inflammatory process for anti-tumor therapies and without any of the side-effects when compared with my first normally prescribed anti-nausea medication. So any statement that there are no medical advantages isn’t true for me.

There are a lot of good studies in/by the National Center for Biotechnology Information on CBD use for those who really want to be educated about it.
I knew a woman with a genetic condition similar to but much rarer than sickle cell anemia. She would go into similar crises and be completely unable to eat as well as going through the physical pain of inadequate oxygen fueling her body. This would make her so sick she would vomit blood. Many trips to the ER for blood infusions that made her sick and the IV nutrition her body needed. One day she begged me to find er some pot. I'd quit several years before (drug testing at my work; a job I loved) but I still had some contacts. Got some, got her high and watched her put away a pile of food. Pain was gone and her spirits lifted, No ER trip.

Since that day, I knew I'd hit the streets to get that medicine if I saw another who needed it (even after Oregon's medical marijuana because I could not sit back and watch the suffering until they had conquered the hurdles to get it).

That was before I had access to all the knowledge that is commonly known now. I'd never heard of CDB, I knew there were medical properties to some pot that were not the THC; that was talked about in the early '70s. There were a lot of stories of people being helped medically by pot and that some pot was better for them.

I hear disbelievers.to this day. They have either not seen what I've seen, can't see what's in front of them or have some strong denial. I don't argue with them. Just hope if they see what I have, their hearts soften.

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Old 12-22-19, 10:07 AM
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If you could only hear the rural Texas fear mongers about hippie lettuce it would make you fall down laughing. Oh but alcoholism is ok and it is funny. Grass is less harmful than alcohol. Bubba is drunk again beating up his family Oh Bojangles is on the wild wood weed he is chilling by the stream all happy trying to catch some catfish. I’m getting my greenhouse ready.
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Old 12-22-19, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Just because something is natural doesn't mean it is good. Asbestos and arsenic and Mercury are natural too.

Just because something is safe and natural doesn't mean it has any efficacy. I'd suggest reviewing the history of the word "snake oil". So far there's minimal peer reviewed science....and most of the espoused benefits are anecdotal and sound exactly like the kind of things placebos cover all the time. Maybe that will change, we'll see.
I'm pretty skeptical of the CBD craze myself, but figure it's less harmful than some of the drugs it competes with. The COX2 inhibitors had a lot of potential for pain relief, but they were abused by prescribers who believed the sales people about how safe they were - or trusted the doctored research that hid the accurate predictions of the deaths due to misuse of the drugs. Opioids are finally getting more scrutiny now that the costs of the opioid epidemic are being felt, especially with the option to substitute a pair of OTC analgesics for a possible lifetime of addiction.

Personally I figure it there is a benefit to CBD and/or medical marijuana products the drug companies are going to make sure they prevent others from profiting from them - especially if there is a decrease in profits to their existing drugs.
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Old 12-22-19, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
MSM (methylsulfonylmethane) is more common now than DMSO as a transdermal carrier for topical analgesics.
This is the safe metabolite of DSMO.
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