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RIP Kobe Bryant

Old 01-26-20, 02:52 PM
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StupidlyBrave 
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RIP Kobe Bryant

Helicopter crash.

AP source: Ex-NBA star Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Kobe Bryant, the 18-time NBA All-Star who won five championships and became one of the greatest basketbal...

Read the full story on https://apnews.com/80146db0b2f2bbcce8ed25917ccf6304

Sent from AP News. Download now on the App Store or Google Play
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Old 01-26-20, 02:53 PM
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Not sure how I feel about the man, but I feel sorry for his family.
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Old 01-26-20, 03:37 PM
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I'm not the biggest sports fan anymore, but guys like Kobe, MJ, etc, are the ones who made my generation dream big as kids. Sad to see almost anyone go so young, and with their child nonetheless.
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Old 01-26-20, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BenzFanatic View Post
...and with their child nonetheless.
That makes it even more tragic. His 13 y.o. daughter and her friend / teammate were on the helicopter too I understand. I've heard they were going to a AAU type travel basketball practice, but none of this is confirmed. Have not heard who the other 2 fatalities were. So sad.
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Old 01-26-20, 04:44 PM
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wasn't Kobe the first player to go straight from High School to the pros..
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Old 01-26-20, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by coffeesnob View Post
wasn't Kobe the first player to go straight from High School to the pros..
There have been others; its not the normal, but it used to be more common before the NBA imposed restrictions on it. Darrell Dawkins ('Chocolate Thunder') comes to mind as a pre-Kobe era player who came direct from high school. LeBron James is a current player who came directly from high school.

I wasn't much of a basketball fan, but I'm thinking for some folks Kobe's death is probably like when Steve Prefontaine died in a car accident in 1975; a lot of us on high school/college distance running teams were devastated. Sad that both those legends had to die so early.

Edit: I turned on the Japanese news this evening (NHK, English version) and Kobe's death was the third story after the US Embassy missle attack in Iraq and the expanding Corona virus problem. That shows the how popular basketball and the NBA/Kobe are around the world.

Last edited by skidder; 01-26-20 at 08:27 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 01-26-20, 06:56 PM
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The first high schooler drafted was Reggie Harding, who was drafted by the Pistons in the 4th round of the 1962 draft. Others include Moses Malone, Darrel Dawkins, Bill Willoughby, Kevin Garnett, and Shawn Kemp,
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Old 01-26-20, 08:18 PM
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Tragic and hard to believe, especially with his daughter being gone as well @ 13 y/o. Terrifying how fragile life is and how quickly it's all over. Thoughts for his family.
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Old 01-26-20, 08:26 PM
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Ditto Chocolate Thunder, a delightfully eccentric character. I never cared much about basketball but I'd occasionally watch during that era for Dr J, World B. Free (formerly Lloyd), and Darryl Dawkins. And Dawkins died too young as well. Yeah, yeah, he was my age. But that's still too dang young.

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Old 01-26-20, 09:14 PM
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Hit me hard. Doesn’t make any sense. Coming from a SA Spurs fan.
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Old 01-27-20, 01:40 AM
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Old 01-27-20, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by coffeesnob View Post
wasn't Kobe the first player to go straight from High School to the pros..
Daryl Dawkins and Moses Malone skipped college. Dawkins entered the NBA in the 70s. Not sure if he was the first to skip college.
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Old 01-27-20, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Ditto Chocolate Thunder, a delightfully eccentric character. I never cared much about basketball but I'd occasionally watch during that era for Dr J, World B. Free (formerly Lloyd), and Darryl Dawkins. And Dawkins died too young as well. Yeah, yeah, he was my age. But that's still too dang young.
I grew up in Philadelphia and got to see all those guys play. IIRC, Dawkins is the reason hanging on the rim became a technical. He shattered two backboards in a short period of time.
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Old 01-27-20, 09:03 AM
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Hit me hard too. I was a Laker fan since I was a kid but fell out of it after the Kobe era. Glad I was able to watch him at least once during his early years. I still have a #8 jersey in yellow somewhere here.
RIP to everyone on that flight. Way too young for them.
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Old 01-27-20, 06:11 PM
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I'm a Laker Hater, and have never been a Kobe fan, but death is tragic.
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Old 01-28-20, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I'm a Laker Hater
wondering why some work themselves up to have that emotion towards a sports team …as far as kobe goes i never got past his sexual assault arrest and sexual aggression towards other women….i do feel sadder about his daughter/others and the surviving families!!!
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Old 01-28-20, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
…as far as kobe goes i never got past his sexual assault arrest and sexual aggression towards other women….i do feel sadder about his daughter/others and the surviving families!!!
This is sort of where I am. In all the memorializations of him, people may mention that he was driven and that made him prickly to his teammates at times as if that was his only flaw, but very few mention the other thing. I get wanting to be sensitive to the family and therefore not speak ill of the dead, but, even in his own apology/explanation at the time he said something about how he hadn't acknowledged that her level of consent had changed. That's a pretty damning statement, and I wondered what the response would have been in the modern #metoo era, but then I remembered that he's an athlete and they seem more or less immune to such concerns even today. But yet, I feel for the man's family.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:05 AM
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Kobe, like all men and women was flawed. The last perfect person to walk the Earth was crucified for his troubles...but i digress.

By all accounts, Kobe was a loving and devoted family man. I have not read anywhere where he engaged in aggressive or predatory behavior towards women., Kobe was no Weinstein or Cosby. In fact, everything that I have read (and not just now in the wake of his untimely death) indicates that Kobe was supportive and encouraging of girls and women in general. He did not sound like a predator.

Kobe was 24 at the time of the alleged ****, the woman was 19. We will never know what really happened in that hotel room. I am a prosecutor who tried to conclusion many sexual assault cases. These cases are difficult to prosecute because often the stories change and, unless there is physical evidence to corroborate the charges, the prosecutor is left with little more than “he said she said.”

Here is an LA Times articles about the events surrounding the **** allegations:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story...l-assault-case

RIP Kobe, Gigi and the other seven victims of this tragic accident.

PS: The BF auto sensors have censored the term commonly associated with sexual assault, but does not sensor the word “sexual.” That’s interesting, but oh well.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
Kobe, like all men and women was flawed. The last perfect person to walk the Earth was crucified for his troubles...but i digress.

By all accounts, Kobe was a loving and devoted family man. I have not read anywhere where he engaged in aggressive or predatory behavior towards women., Kobe was no Weinstein or Cosby. In fact, everything that I have read (and not just now in the wake of his untimely death) indicates that Kobe was supportive and encouraging of girls and women in general. He did not sound like a predator.

Kobe was 24 at the time of the alleged ****, the woman was 19. We will never know what really happened in that hotel room. I am a prosecutor who tried to conclusion many sexual assault cases. These cases are difficult to prosecute because often the stories change and, unless there is physical evidence to corroborate the charges, the prosecutor is left with little more than “he said she said.”

.
I don't know, maybe some of us are conflating Kobe with his defense team's attacks on the accuser (including leaking her name and sexual history) and coming up with someone who doesn't respect women, but that whole incident was handled terribly.
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Old 01-28-20, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
I don't know, maybe some of us are conflating Kobe with his defense team's attacks on the accuser (including leaking her name and sexual history) and coming up with someone who doesn't respect women, but that whole incident was handled terribly.
There is no conflating here. Facts are facts and the available evidence was not particularly compelling.

The defense team did not leak her name to the media and the defense team did not send the alleged victim to her med-legal exam while wearing underwear containing DNA from her boyfriend’s semen; she did that all on her own.

We will never know exactly what happened in that hotel room. The conclusions that each one of us draws from the available evidence speaks to our own world view and not necessarily to what actually happened. One of the actors in this drama is dead, the other will most likely not talk about it. That’s pretty much how things stand.
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Old 01-28-20, 09:18 AM
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So tragic and sad for their families.

What would really piss me off is if it was some stupid thing with that helicopter. Like some maintenance oversight or such. Of course what happens lots is the corporation will pin it on dead pilot.
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Old 01-28-20, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
There is no conflating here. Facts are facts and the available evidence was not particularly compelling.

The defense team did not leak her name to the media and the defense team did not send the alleged victim to her med-legal exam while wearing underwear containing DNA from her boyfriend’s semen; she did that all on her own.

We will never know exactly what happened in that hotel room. The conclusions that each one of us draws from the available evidence speaks to our own world view and not necessarily to what actually happened. One of the actors in this drama is dead, the other will most likely not talk about it. That’s pretty much how things stand.
This https://thinkprogress.org/the-legacy...-6a42f159be7b/ seems to fit with my memory from the time that his attorney actively listed the accusers name and discussed her sexual history in front of reporters. No, the victim did not make the best choices as well, but there was a sustained campaign from his attorneys (and other Kobe supporters) of smearing the victim. Yes, we can't know what happened in that room because one of the two people there is dead and the other is apparently honoring her NDA, but we can't ignore the way she was treated following her accusations either.
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Old 01-28-20, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
wondering why some work themselves up to have that emotion towards a sports team …as far as kobe goes i never got past his sexual assault arrest and sexual aggression towards other women….i do feel sadder about his daughter/others and the surviving families!!!
Well 'Hate' is a strong word. I don't really care, but bitd when I used to watch the NBA some, I would always root against the Lakers.

There was some coverage on NPR this morning that discussed how he has grown since the assault case, fathering daughters and championing them.
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Old 01-28-20, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
Kobe, like all men and women was flawed. The last perfect person to walk the Earth was crucified for his troubles...but i digress..
Everyone is complicated. You can be a tortured mass of endless complications and still never sexually assault anyone. Some people just don’t want to complicate a narrative around someone they adore by hearing that particular person needs an asterisk by his name and that is very, very far from saying….good, I’m glad he’s dead.
Bryant’s public apology statement (probably written by pr people and/or his lawyers) to end the prosecution while allowing the civil suit to proceed put beyond doubt the fact that he had forced nonconsensual sex upon his accuser but only after his defense team viciously and publicly went after her to the point she just wanted it all to go away…..much like what is still going on today towards VICTIMS. The positive for other survivors in his case was that some states then enacted laws to keep court motions with victim identities in these cases private.

eta...look deeper into the underwear debacle and you’ll also see the misinformation that also just led to more smears against her
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Last edited by clemsongirl; 01-28-20 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 01-28-20, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
This is sort of where I am. In all the memorializations of him, people may mention that he was driven and that made him prickly to his teammates at times as if that was his only flaw, but very few mention the other thing. I get wanting to be sensitive to the family and therefore not speak ill of the dead, but, even in his own apology/explanation at the time he said something about how he hadn't acknowledged that her level of consent had changed. That's a pretty damning statement, and I wondered what the response would have been in the modern #metoo era, but then I remembered that he's an athlete and they seem more or less immune to such concerns even today. But yet, I feel for the man's family.

Not just athletes, entertainers (including athletes) are held to different standards.
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