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How to get cars to avoid the street you are on..

Old 02-12-20, 09:58 AM
  #26  
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Remember that thing where if you were going on a road trip you'd go to AAA and they'd print you up a booklet of these odd long pages that gave you a corridor along your whole route?

I don't have a smartphone, but my wife has a payg one, so I see how she can drag rectangles and cache google maps for offline access to not use data. I wish it could do that same thing, like I'm taking a roadtrip from my house to some campground or national park 3 states away, please download and cache for me a 5-10-mile corridor of map data along that route.
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Old 02-12-20, 10:18 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
If I had my way, we'd reduce traffic and speed with speed bumps designed to allow bikes to pass safely. There's no reason for driving as fast as some folks do on residential roads, but they'll do it because Waze and Google tell 'em to so they aren't delayed by 2 seconds taking the highway, boulevards and main thoroughfares.
To be honest speed bumps are limited, last resort techniques. Also they don't play well with snowplows, a consideration in more northern latitudes.
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Old 02-12-20, 12:09 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
I can easily think back to a time that paper maps and que sheets were IT. Occasional stops to consult said were part of any trip. Shortly after the internet became a 'thing', MapQuest. I think any of us with the pleasure of using said service also learned to HAVE A MAP. As TomTom and Garmin GPS units came on the scene we were treated to constantly having to update maps to poorly optimized devices with bad GPS signal and algorithms that INSISTED you take some specific road in an area, even at the cost of miles.
By and large I would call "Mobile" maps and it's associated tracking the best use case scenario for the technology, particularly in conjunction with it's host device being a phone. Super handy, typically quite reliable, and the best part is that if you take a wrong turn it will just re-route you back.

As to installed systems in cars, I try to avoid them. It's getting harder as they now come as integral part(s) of the build and systems. They eventually fall into that same TomTom/Garmin trap and typically sit unused and outdated.
I've been told cars with inbuilt GPS navigation systems lose value more quickly, because they're expensive to update. Seattle has been revising traffic (making some roads one way etc) for the past several years and either you buy an overpriced update, or you're in a blind leading the blind situation when you actually need help navigating.

The last time I used a cue sheet on a bike, a gale force wind took it from me, and I had to rely on my own wits. Amazing I made it out alive!
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Old 02-12-20, 12:12 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Remember that thing where if you were going on a road trip you'd go to AAA and they'd print you up a booklet of these odd long pages that gave you a corridor along your whole route?

I don't have a smartphone, but my wife has a payg one, so I see how she can drag rectangles and cache google maps for offline access to not use data. I wish it could do that same thing, like I'm taking a roadtrip from my house to some campground or national park 3 states away, please download and cache for me a 5-10-mile corridor of map data along that route.
I have a friend I hike/peak bag with. He brings topographic maps and route beta on his phone. We've been stuck in the winter, he'll pull out his phone, look at screenshots of trip reports, and say we were supposed to go left in Albuquerque.
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Old 02-12-20, 12:36 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Remember that thing where if you were going on a road trip you'd go to AAA and they'd print you up a booklet of these odd long pages that gave you a corridor along your whole route?

I don't have a smartphone, but my wife has a payg one, so I see how she can drag rectangles and cache google maps for offline access to not use data. I wish it could do that same thing, like I'm taking a roadtrip from my house to some campground or national park 3 states away, please download and cache for me a 5-10-mile corridor of map data along that route.
Did that for a long bike tour down CA. And used Bicentennial maps and signs too... back in the '80s, before cell phones.

I think they called those "trip tickets," with some odd spelling.
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Old 02-12-20, 12:45 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I've been told cars with inbuilt GPS navigation systems lose value more quickly, because they're expensive to update. Seattle has been revising traffic (making some roads one way etc) for the past several years and either you buy an overpriced update, or you're in a blind leading the blind situation when you actually need help navigating.

The last time I used a cue sheet on a bike, a gale force wind took it from me, and I had to rely on my own wits. Amazing I made it out alive!
​​​​​​
Older cars had systems that were hard to update. My wife's car has an SD you plug in to your computer and go to the subscription by the car company.

My various Garmin GPSs work the same way.

Still, it is never as up to date as constantly updating google maps and a live connection.

And google maps gives turn by turn with enough time to turn, verses her built in system. We also compare her iphone to my android... android gets the turns out just a hair faster. Funny though, hearing one echo the other.
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Old 02-12-20, 12:53 PM
  #32  
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Personally I think Google's Maps app is all anyone needs. The only down side is it would be easier to see if the display was larger. Like you said, it's constantly updated, it knows traffic in real time, and it will automatically cache the route if you go through an area known to have spotty reception.

When I navigate without help, I feel like I'm exercising some dormant part of my brain.
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Old 02-12-20, 05:53 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
I hate speed bumps, and I don't own a car. I do own a bad back.
Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
To be honest speed bumps are limited, last resort techniques. Also they don't play well with snowplows, a consideration in more northern latitudes.
I wish speed bumps weren't necessary. But they work in areas where drivers refuse to cooperate with suggestions from warning signs or sporadic traffic enforcement by police.

Most neighborhoods in my area leave gaps between speed bumps for two-wheeled vehicles to pass safely.
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Old 02-12-20, 07:03 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I wish speed bumps weren't necessary. But they work in areas where drivers refuse to cooperate with suggestions from warning signs or sporadic traffic enforcement by police.

Most neighborhoods in my area leave gaps between speed bumps for two-wheeled vehicles to pass safely.
I hear ya. Other than some parking lots, the only speed bumps I can think of around me are on Iroquois Ave that is a residential, diagonal connector between Stadium Blvd and Packard Rd. Drivers would otherwise use it to avoid a busy intersection with a long light. Again though, not snowplow friendly.
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Old 02-13-20, 12:27 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
I hear ya. Other than some parking lots, the only speed bumps I can think of around me are on Iroquois Ave that is a residential, diagonal connector between Stadium Blvd and Packard Rd. Drivers would otherwise use it to avoid a busy intersection with a long light. Again though, not snowplow friendly.
​​​
Many years ago I lived in a small new development that was next to a wide arterial road. Prior to this very residential property being developed, it was farm pasture. When the development went in, a stop light was added to the intersection of two existing streets at the key entryway to the development.

Drivers would turn right into the development, with narrow low speed streets, where children played in close yards, to avoid the traffic light. They would drive 40 MPH down 20 MPH streets as if it were the Gran Prix.

Speed bumps meant nothing to the large jacked up trucks.

We petitioned the city to close off the far end of the street through the development. This took loads of negotiations due to fire regulations and fire truck access. Ultimately the end of the street was blocked with removable posts.

The big trucks continued, and drove across curbs and lawns to avoid the posts.

Eventually the end of the street was narrowed with walls, and better bollards were installed. The neighborhood breathed a sigh of relief, finally.

All because some folks refused to wait for a traffic light.
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Old 02-13-20, 12:53 AM
  #36  
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The fire code thing is real. Look what happened in Paradise CA.
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Old 02-13-20, 05:48 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The fire code thing is real. Look what happened in Paradise CA.
Oh that was no problem... it amounted to ensuring that there were two ways in and out for a firetruck. The neighborhood was developed as a walking neighborhood with sidewalks, and somewhat narrow streets. Delivery vehicles could come in, access the entire neighborhood and leave through a circular route back to the main entrance. The fire codes required a second access in... which originally was one through street. This was not a straight street, there were two turns, no matter how you went, to go through the neighborhood.

The lifted trucks rounded these corners, rolled over curbs and just roared through the neighborhood.

Ultimately the fire code regulations were met by closing off the through street with locking bollards and walls to narrow the street opening. This satisfied the fire code... which essentially required two accesses, and no requirement for a firetruck to have to turn around in the neighborhood.

In the end, children could ride bikes in the streets again.
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Old 02-13-20, 10:33 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The fire code thing is real. Look what happened in Paradise CA.
I did not know about that
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Old 02-13-20, 11:59 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Oh that was no problem... it amounted to ensuring that there were two ways in and out for a firetruck. The neighborhood was developed as a walking neighborhood with sidewalks, and somewhat narrow streets. Delivery vehicles could come in, access the entire neighborhood and leave through a circular route back to the main entrance. The fire codes required a second access in... which originally was one through street. This was not a straight street, there were two turns, no matter how you went, to go through the neighborhood.

The lifted trucks rounded these corners, rolled over curbs and just roared through the neighborhood.

Ultimately the fire code regulations were met by closing off the through street with locking bollards and walls to narrow the street opening. This satisfied the fire code... which essentially required two accesses, and no requirement for a firetruck to have to turn around in the neighborhood.

In the end, children could ride bikes in the streets again.
In a serious emergency, I don't think somebody is going to come unlock all the bollards.

I mean here in the city the roads will gridlock too, but there are so many of them you'd have a chance if you avoid the arterials and freeways.
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Old 02-13-20, 02:33 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
In a serious emergency, I don't think somebody is going to come unlock all the bollards.

I mean here in the city the roads will gridlock too, but there are so many of them you'd have a chance if you avoid the arterials and freeways.
The fire department had the key... and I believe key neighbors and police did too.

But I would also be willing to bet that a set of bolt cutters would make quick work of the locks.

The idea was to inconvenience the idiot speeding motorists... and it worked. Took low walls however to finish the tactic... that was surprising... those drivers had no respect for private property.
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Old 02-16-20, 09:21 PM
  #41  
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You need a "speed limit enforced by sniper" sign.
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Old 02-17-20, 05:26 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You need a "speed limit enforced by sniper" sign.
LOL. We also had a problem with taggers... due to retaining walls around the neighborhood.

The solution was two or three neighbors near any wall always keeping a can of paint and brush handy. Tags rarely lasted a couple of hours.

I chased off some taggers, yelling loudly as I approached them, and continuing to make a lot of noise as I herded them out of the neighborhood... all the while thinking any one of the young idiots could have a knife or gun, and wondering if I should attempt to actually catch one. They were young teen boys, acting tough.

My training as a cyclist (physical condition, and yelling at cars/dogs) helped here.
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Old 02-17-20, 12:44 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
In a serious emergency, I don't think somebody is going to come unlock all the bollards.
We've had remote controlled bollards here for years. Police, Ambulance, fire department all have them and it looses them hardly a second. It's a matter of prioritizing kids cycling and playing on streets.
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Old 02-17-20, 11:14 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
We've had remote controlled bollards here for years. Police, Ambulance, fire department all have them and it looses them hardly a second. It's a matter of prioritizing kids cycling and playing on streets.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Your bollards sound like some mechanical thing, that can be operated remotely. (Remote controlled)

What I am speaking of is a large post, physically locked, to a hole in the road. In the road is embedded a steel sleeve and inserted into that sleeve is a metal post surrounded by concrete cylinder. Where the sleeve and post meet, right at the level of the street, is a robust padlock.

Similar to this...
https://www.crowdcontrolwarehouse.co...16131088318558

Except the upper yellow bit was bigger in diameter. But same idea, like this:.​​






I think you may be speaking of something fancier, like this:
https://m.indiamart.com/proddetail/a...084032588.html


Last edited by genec; 02-17-20 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 02-17-20, 11:35 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
This was a great article.
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Old 02-17-20, 11:48 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
This was a great article.
He said he was stunned when he later heard Paradise’s mayor answer a public question about the snarled fire evacuation by stating that enough roads could never be built to evacuate the whole town at once.

“Anybody in their right mind would know that the whole town was a large oak forest, and everybody was at risk,” Scherer said. It was a “colossal failure,” he added, not to warn residents that the entire community couldn’t be evacuated at once. “You’ve got to recognize the risk.”
Yeah, but you are also comparing an entire isolated town to my situation of a neighborhood of about 3 city blocks, that could be easily walked through and away from... and not surrounded by forest.

Sadly, there are lots of small forest towns like Paradise, scattered throughout the west, and equally vulnerable.

In San Diego, the scripps ranch fire was similar.
http://www.scrippsranch.org/newslett...edar-fire.html

But that was all part of the much larger Cedar fire.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedar_Fire

Last edited by genec; 02-18-20 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 02-18-20, 03:04 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. Your bollards sound like some mechanical thing, that can be operated remotely. (Remote controlled)

What I am speaking of is a large post, physically locked, to a hole in the road. In the road is embedded a steel sleeve and inserted into that sleeve is a metal post surrounded by concrete cylinder. Where the sleeve and post meet, right at the level of the street, is a robust padlock.

Similar to this...
https://www.crowdcontrolwarehouse.co...16131088318558

Except the upper yellow bit was bigger in diameter. But same idea, like this:.​​






I think you may be speaking of something fancier, like this:
https://m.indiamart.com/proddetail/a...084032588.html


True. But it's an answer to the question in the topic title, it's also technological and it's solves the emergency access issue.
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Old 02-18-20, 06:25 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
True. But it's an answer to the question in the topic title, it's also technological and it's solves the emergency access issue.
OK, true.

Except the thread wasn't really about a question it was "how to do it" not "how can it be done," so more rhetorical than anything else... and focused on the issue of the "art" mentio ed in the OP.

But, the thread has shifted... and you are correct.

Your application, however is expensive, and requires a constant power source. What my old neighborhood did was pretty cost effective.

So going down that path of bollard protected neighborhoods... I recall the whole central core of Oulu Finland being car free... I don't recall barriers... seems like there must have been something. I also recall two blocks of Rue Cler in Paris, and the Latin quarter as being car free.

Last edited by genec; 02-18-20 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 02-18-20, 09:59 AM
  #49  
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You could have hidden spike strips in the area the brodozers were tresspassing, that would have been fun
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Old 02-18-20, 10:04 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
In San Diego, the scripps ranch fire was similar.
http://www.scrippsranch.org/newslett...edar-fire.html
Scripps Ranch is the next pocket community over from where I live. I drive and ride on Pomerado Rd through the eucalyptus canyon there sometimes, I can imagine it would be a terrible bottleneck for an evacuation.

(I ride the other direction on Pomerado Rd, north away from SR, towards Rancho Bernardo, as part of my commute every day. Fun fact: Pomerado is a portmanteau of POway MERton bernarDO. I have no idea what a Merton is, maybe that was an older name for Scripps Ranch? Another road around here is called Espola, for EScondido, POway, LAkeside (although that road goes nowhere near Lakeside))
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