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UK to ban new gas vehicles by 2035

Old 02-06-20, 08:20 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
eta...base2 In the U.S. and in your expense calculations you need to include additional fees for the replacement of the 41 billion in federal and 81 billion in state gas taxes that go to infrastructure….well except texas which diverts 25% to education but then that’s a political matter for them.
You're right. I pay an additional $75 dollar penalty on my annual vehicle licensing per electric & hybrid vehicle to off set the loss of gas tax revenue. Whether I drive or use the vehicle on public roads or not. Effectively severing any relation between use of service & cost thereof.

All told, I estimated I paid ~150 per year in gas taxes for the vehicle the electric car replaced. So, still a $75 gain from my generally fiscal conservative anti-tax perspective. What really sticks in my craw though is that $75 electric car penalty also applies my hybrid (meaning gas powered) Prius. That seems like taxation without representation, to me. But so be it. I like having roads & efficiency & support of my community is a conservative value.

The bulk of the road system s still paid for by approximatly 40% of my $309/mo property taxes, so the diesel truck drivin' anti-cyclists claim that I don't pay for the road still remains absolutely false.
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Old 02-06-20, 08:25 PM
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The doc prescribed me Bactrim for pin site infection on my finger. She said it was some potent stuff. The pharmacist told me not to drink and stay out of the sun. But I wasn’t paying attention because the female pharmacist is let’s say “easy on the eyes” . I got drunk in the sun but I blame the global warming The infection has cleared up because I think a 737 sprayed healing chemicals on me.
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Old 02-07-20, 02:14 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I like having roads & efficiency & support of my community is a ‘sensible’ value..
fify

my broader point is with the gas tax revenue declining, adoption of cleaner and alternative fuel vehicles accelerating…the cost shifts are just beginning, especially for the new infrastructure. The more state, local and federal funding the sooner the needed infrastructure is here, much like in other countries and a few U.S. states that have really committed to it.

btw..also concerning price comparisons Wa.’s electricity prices are much cheaper than some other states because hydropower and wind provides almost 3/4 of it, a good testament to renewables too.
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Old 02-07-20, 08:16 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by clemsongirl View Post
fify

my broader point is with the gas tax revenue declining, adoption of cleaner and alternative fuel vehicles accelerating…the cost shifts are just beginning, especially for the new infrastructure. The more state, local and federal funding the sooner the needed infrastructure is here, much like in other countries and a few U.S. states that have really committed to it.

btw..also concerning price comparisons Wa.’s electricity prices are much cheaper than some other states because hydropower and wind provides almost 3/4 of it, a good testament to renewables too.
Point is more than understood. We need a wholesale shift in civic attitude.

The "fify" thing: clemsongirl Yeah, I find that I have to flank most of the people at the lunch table or the watercooler because when the slightest differing view is presented, in their mind I'm a socialist boogyman. (Not true, btw. I've never met a boogy-person & I see no land of Boogy in google maps ) I work in a factory & park my electric car &/or my Prius among a lot of lifted dually diesel pick-up's with a lot of unhelpful slogans on unhelpful bumper-stickers. Why the commute to work from their house, in the city to their factory, in the city in a piece of farm equipment is just beyond my understanding. But, I have a feeling it pertains to identity, community, patriotism, & duty against a common enemy...& among other things consumerism & excess. So I find that a different approach that is custom tailored to appeal to their (my very non-pragmatic co-workers) value system is needed so that I'm not rejected out of hand.

I'm not a "wolf in sheeps clothing," I'm a shepherd.

Explaining the very real & true phenomonon of X just doesn't work on some people like it does for others. No amount of additional facts or presenting an even larger overwhelming pile of data is going to convence them. Human persons often don't work on rational basis.

The trick is to find the rationale they use to justify their emotional rooted decision. In this particular case, explaining various "green" causes in terms of waste, efficiency, balance sheets, business opportunity, industry, jobs, community values (of the community they identify with), self-sufficiency, rugged individualism, etc...seems to an approach that works for the intended audience.

...So, yeah. You caught me.
I really want to add more on a variety of other topics outside this threads scope of "going all in on reducing carbon comsumption" but suffice to say human values are universal.
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Old 02-07-20, 10:42 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I work in a factory & park my electric car &/or my Prius among a lot of lifted dually diesel pick-up's with a lot of unhelpful slogans on unhelpful bumper-stickers. Why the commute to work from their house, in the city to their factory, in the city in a piece of farm equipment is just beyond my understanding. But, I have a feeling it pertains to identity, community, patriotism, & duty against a common enemy...& among other things consumerism & excess. So I find that a different approach that is custom tailored to appeal to their (my very non-pragmatic co-workers) value system is needed so that I'm not rejected out of hand.
Great way to put it!

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015...say-about-you/

Now don’t get me wrong – not every work truck is a money-burning rolling clown circus with a 24/7 fireworks show shooting out of its roof telling the world how dumb you are. Only about 99% of them.
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Old 02-07-20, 10:52 AM
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I sure loved though propane buses at the Grand Canyon and Yosemite NPs .... best way to see an overcrowded park. Since I love hiking I would go several miles on a trail to get away from the crowds and see the real park. Zion had the buses as well.. I go to Big Bend NP in summer when it is 110 on the desert floor, no body is there. But at 7,000 feet it is 75 degrees.
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Old 02-07-20, 11:22 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Except the farmers that make more from the lease on the land the mill is on than the cow that used to graze there.

I think they're unpopular among the other general residents because of what the represent to that half of the state. "A socialist taking of their God-given free-range land for dishonerable hand-outs to the unworthy by the unelected Communist bureaucrats that have taken over Free-attle."

...At least that's what my in-laws tell me as they drive on the roads I subsidize so they can live in a house (supplied with electricity) surrounded by the public forest land I own & pay to maintain. While their children are transported by bus from the boonies to be educated in the schools my tax dollars fund to be taught by teachers my tax dollars pay for. They don't see that their children have clean air & their water is rendered clean or that their toilets flush to a treatment plant paid for out of the general fund by the the tax dollars I provide. (It sure seems awfully socialist, to me...but keeping peace in the family is more important.)

And so it goes. Any actual accounting on the actual ledger provided by the state comptroller is conveniently never learned due to an absence of curiosity or is easily discounted by an unhealthy skepticism & fear fueld by ideologically tainted media.
We have the same family? My BIL doesn't want to take handouts form the government cause that's socialism and get SS Disability for his son to the point they still can't afford the bills and live in a house owned by my parents who pay the insurance and taxes on it and even some of the utilities but at least he isn't getting a socialist handout.
I've had the exact same rant with him over infrastructure and taxes and now I just avoid even meeting them. I see them twice a year for no more then 2 days and can't handle more.
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Old 02-07-20, 12:40 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
We have the same family? My BIL doesn't want to take handouts form the government cause that's socialism and get SS Disability for his son to the point they still can't afford the bills and live in a house owned by my parents who pay the insurance and taxes on it and even some of the utilities but at least he isn't getting a socialist handout.
I've had the exact same rant with him over infrastructure and taxes and now I just avoid even meeting them. I see them twice a year for no more then 2 days and can't handle more.
Sounds like Mr. Basketball Gut trying to give me training and nutrition advice ...
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Old 02-07-20, 01:00 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Love it!
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Old 02-07-20, 02:17 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I work in a factory & park my electric car &/or my Prius among a lot of lifted dually diesel pick-up's with a lot of unhelpful slogans on unhelpful bumper-stickers. Why the commute to work from their house, in the city to their factory, in the city in a piece of farm equipment is just beyond my understanding. But, I have a feeling it pertains to identity, community, patriotism, & duty against a common enemy...& among other things consumerism & excess.
Cars have an amazing power to blend into identity. Somebody posted a trip report on a hiking forum last summer, and mentioned seeing a Prius at the trailhead. Their point was that the dirt road was passable in a low clearance vehicle. But it set a few people off who complained about politicizing the trip report.
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Old 02-07-20, 02:52 PM
  #61  
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lol

I try to use my cars as part of my identity. My kids go to a private school with a lot of rich kids. What my 18-year-old, paint-flaking car says about my identity is I can't afford to contribute to a lot of fundraisers and I deserve financial aid
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Old 02-07-20, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
lol

I try to use my cars as part of my identity. My kids go to a private school with a lot of rich kids. What my 18-year-old, paint-flaking car says about my identity is I can't afford to contribute to a lot of fundraisers and I deserve financial aid
I drove all kinds of garbage. Anything that would move if I didn’t like it I was walking. Sure my family could have got me something decent but they knew that would be stupid and they were right. Oil leaking oil burning everyone pitch in a dollar if you want go cruising no gas well no ride. When I mean decent something 10 years old with 200K back then no late 70s early 80s car were junk I should say 100K. I had a 79 Camaro I thought I was cool but that heap of junk was so slow a Pinto could beat it. But it helped in getting an education that planned parenthood didn’t want anybody to learn

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Old 02-07-20, 03:14 PM
  #63  
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I wish small trucks were still available in the USA. Seems like all the small trucks grew up into mid-size trucks that cost nearly as much to feed as a full size truck.

What I like trucks for is their more rugged frame and suspension. The streets where I drive are pounded into oblivion by freight trucks, dump trucks, garbage trucks, buses, heavy work trucks, etc.

My 4 cylinder minivan just had its third set of front strut assemblies installed this past week in only 111,000 miles. All thanks to the really bad industrial roads I tend to drive on to reach my customers to repair their machinery.

Makes me miss my '83 Chevy S-10 and '95 GMC Sonoma. Those were perfectly sized small work trucks for me.
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Old 02-07-20, 03:22 PM
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Yup I drove Ford Rangers an 83 didn’t make it before I blew engine up. An 88 I got 300K out of then a 95 that had 125k before it got totaled when an old man pulled out in front of me. standard transmissions and whatever after market jam system I could cram in there. Great for hauling around my bikes.
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Old 02-07-20, 06:00 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
I'll put it on my calendar
Not me. Mine has pictures of antique bikes on it, why mess it up?
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Old 02-07-20, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
I wish small trucks were still available in the USA. Seems like all the small trucks grew up into mid-size trucks that cost nearly as much to feed as a full size truck. . . . Makes me miss my '83 Chevy S-10 and '95 GMC Sonoma. Those were perfectly sized small work trucks for me.
Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Yup I drove Ford Rangers an 83 didn’t make it before I blew engine up. An 88 I got 300K out of then a 95 that had 125k before it got totaled when an old man pulled out in front of me. standard transmissions and whatever after market jam system I could cram in there. Great for hauling around my bikes.
Since this thread brings up electric cars, I think I could entertain the idea of an electric truck. Except, the electric trucks in the article linked below sure don't seem like they are for the common worker that would want an economy level truck. Considering the two trucks I mentioned sold for $6,200 (used) and $21,000 (new) in 2019 inflation adjusted dollars.

https://evbite.com/5-upcoming-electric-trucks/

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Old 02-07-20, 07:26 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Just seems impractical for countries that has vast open ranges like west Texas or the Australian outback. I can see this possible in population centers where all goods and services that makes life nice is nearby. I know this is a simplistic view and there are many more variables at play.
autos will get power from something

if they are electric that means a power plant somewhere is providing electricity to charge the vehicle and then you have to see what type of power plant is producing this electricity (unless you are rich and live in a sunny spot and have solar panels connected up to your auto charger). Not too much sun in Europe.

this electric power ain’t coming for free and it also may be kicking co2 into the air

***** by the way the air is composed of far less than 1% carbon dioxide (this is even after the so called global warming)
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Old 02-07-20, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
I wish small trucks were still available in the USA. Seems like all the small trucks grew up into mid-size trucks that cost nearly as much to feed as a full size truck.

What I like trucks for is their more rugged frame and suspension. The streets where I drive are pounded into oblivion by freight trucks, dump trucks, garbage trucks, buses, heavy work trucks, etc.

My 4 cylinder minivan just had its third set of front strut assemblies installed this past week in only 111,000 miles. All thanks to the really bad industrial roads I tend to drive on to reach my customers to repair their machinery.

Makes me miss my '83 Chevy S-10 and '95 GMC Sonoma. Those were perfectly sized small work trucks for me.
the mighty Sonoma

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Old 02-07-20, 07:59 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
An electric vehicle does not reduce your household overhead (it’s actually way more expensive). Poor to middle class can not afford electric vehicles at this point.

Rich people are only ones rolling in electric now
Quite true.
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Old 02-07-20, 08:03 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Electric cars are designed to have their batteries replaced when they've lost 10% of their capacity, and then the batteries are reused for other less critical purposes. They don't "die in the middle of nowhere".
When thinking about electric vehicles, I suffer from range anxiety. Always thought vehicles, such as the Chevy Volt were the way to go. I think it's not, or shortly, not going to continue production though.
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Old 02-07-20, 08:19 PM
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Sorry, too much politics.
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