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UK to ban new gas vehicles by 2035

Old 02-04-20, 09:17 AM
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UK to ban new gas and hybrid vehicles by 2035

UK boosts climate effort by banning new gas vehicles by 2035

"Britain announced Tuesday that it plans to ban the sale of new gas and diesel cars by 2035 — five years earlier than its previous target — in a bid to speed up efforts to tackle climate change."

"The U.K. says it will bring in a ban on fossil-fuel cars and vans even earlier than 2035 “if a faster transition is feasible.” The ban will also include hybrid vehicles."

https://apnews.com/9a62002f00ae709b3906495c79487d35

Well, this should be interesting. I wonder if the USA will attempt to do the same?
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Old 02-04-20, 10:06 AM
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Now I’m going to get my fire breathing 5.7 Hemi and blast 108 mph I would go faster but that pesky governor down the highway to town to get me a triple cheese Whataburger produced by methane tooting cows (actual cows not the employees) as I watch 777s fly overheard spewing out chem trails. I will do my part in warming up the planet today nobody get upset I’m just clowning....
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Old 02-04-20, 10:40 AM
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Not soon enough tbh
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Old 02-04-20, 10:43 AM
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While I am sympathetic to climate change efforts, I wonder how the big equipment will be handled...think road graters, dozers, dump trucks, garbage trucks, [especially] aircraft, et al. It's surprising that they include hybrids in this.
With so many U.S. jobs tied to fossil fuel tech (including my own), I expect the U.S. to go kicking and screaming. You know, like with the metric system.
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Old 02-04-20, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by skijor View Post
While I am sympathetic to climate change efforts, I wonder how the big equipment will be handled...think road graters, dozers, dump trucks, garbage trucks, [especially] aircraft, et al. It's surprising that they include hybrids in this.
With so many U.S. jobs tied to fossil fuel tech (including my own), I expect the U.S. to go kicking and screaming. You know, like with the metric system.
I've read a 2nd source that doesn't outright say hybrids are included in the ban. Maybe hybrids would be phased out more slowly? Not sure, but one thing is for sure, a hybrid still has a gasoline engine.
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Old 02-04-20, 11:01 AM
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One thing I always wonder about electric vehicles is, what to do with all those humongous batteries once they can't move a car far enough or fast enough anymore?

Here's an article from the summer of 2018 saying electric car batteries will be reused for as long as they are reusable.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...en-they-retire

Note that the global stockpile of replaced battery packs were about 55,000 in 2018 and expected (per that old article) to reach 3.4 million in 2025.
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Old 02-04-20, 11:09 AM
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In these relatively early stages is when the industry should develop standard battery 'pack/compartment' sizes, so that their innards, casings, etc can be reused again and again...to avoid even more landfill nonsense...and more easily handle the toxic elements. It could also help streamline both production and safety aspects of future e-vehicles. Opportunity is knocking. Who will listen?
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Old 02-04-20, 11:09 AM
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Electricity produced by those large windmills has always been interesting to me. I see them hauling the blades on large semi trucks and you get a feel of the scale of those wind driven contraptions. Texas especially out west has several windmills producing clean energy.
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Old 02-04-20, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Electricity produced by those large windmills has always been interesting to me. I see them hauling the blades on large semi trucks and you get a feel of the scale of those wind driven contraptions. Texas especially out west has several windmills producing clean energy.
I've seen those west Texas windmill farms from the air. I've seen the windmill farms just north of Corpus Christi from the ground. So impressive to see those huge blades turning so slowly, then I think about the speed at the tip of the blade and I don't want to be anywhere near them.
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Old 02-04-20, 11:24 AM
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On a road trip to Arizona we were passing those windmills and as you mentioned : someone said : How far would you fly if were strapped to the end of the blade and thrown at the apex of the rotation?
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Old 02-04-20, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
One thing I always wonder about electric vehicles is, what to do with all those humongous batteries once they can't move a car far enough or fast enough anymore?

Here's an article from the summer of 2018 saying electric car batteries will be reused for as long as they are reusable.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...en-they-retire

Note that the global stockpile of replaced battery packs were about 55,000 in 2018 and expected (per that old article) to reach 3.4 million in 2025.
They have plans to recycle today's batteries, but the Holy Grail of battery research is to create a battery that doesn't wear out. Lots of money being thrown at this problem, lots of money to be made by whoever solves it. It will be solved.
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Old 02-04-20, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by skijor View Post
In these relatively early stages is when the industry should develop standard battery 'pack/compartment' sizes, so that their innards, casings, etc can be reused again and again...to avoid even more landfill nonsense...and more easily handle the toxic elements. It could also help streamline both production and safety aspects of future e-vehicles. Opportunity is knocking. Who will listen?
Tesla does use standard cell sizes, 18650 and 21700. There's complete lifecycle plan to reuse and recycle them so they don't end up in landfills.
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Old 02-04-20, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by skijor View Post
With so many U.S. jobs tied to fossil fuel tech (including my own), I expect the U.S. to go kicking and screaming. You know, like with the metric system.
Clean energy jobs are already leading fossil fuel jobs in both growth and sustainability into the future. (eta...green energy jobs have grown to a 3-1+ advantage over fossil fuels jobs in U.S. employment now and are also high wage jobs). That is also where those who want to work in the now and future energy sector should be preparing/educating themselves for.

Norway, the Netherlands, Germany and India are just some of the countries that also have quicker measures for the move to electric/hydrogen only vehicles than the U.K.’s now 2035.
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Old 02-04-20, 12:34 PM
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Tesla's million mile battery patent.

The paper.
I dunno about anyone else here, but a million miles is about 3 times longer than I have ever cared to own a vehicle, & about 5 times as long as vehicles churn in my driveway before being totalled by an inattentive driver on a cell phone doing 10 over the speed limit into my rear bumper while I wait at a red light.

The cool thing about lithium batteries is the recyclability. Lithium is one of the most common elements in the Earths crust.

Being the owner of a 2016 "small battery" Nissan Leaf, and a 2010 Prius with 110k on the odometer with 15% battery degredation: Any concerns for battery lifespan or durability/fragility has totally disappated.

What the UK needs to do is address the large current demand that charging infrastructure will require. My Leaf takes 12 amps at 120 volts (about the same as a coffee pot). This yields a charge rate of about 5 miles per hour. No big deal averaging a new coffee pot to the economy. But there is only 24 hours in a day. For most people who drive ~50 miles or less per day the "trickle" charger option would work reasonably well. Indeed, it does for me.

Where the infrastructure problem lies is at 240 volts the car will draw about 40 amps current & requires a 50 amp breaker. This yields about 20 miles per hour charge rate...Older houses may not, (and probably don't) have the capacity in the service panel/breaker box to support that kind of draw. So for many people, a $12k used car may need a $6000 service panel upgrade at home if they intend to be a high mileage gasoline car direct replacement. Now start multiplying that for every house fed from the substation. Think of it as every single house adding 2 additional clothes dryers running at the same time between 7pm & 3 am when the owners are home from work...That's a lot of peak capacity & overhead infrastructure must support if we are to do this transition right.

The commercial "440 volt" charging stations require a 480 volt supply (due to inverter losses) & draw approx 80-100 amps at a time. This is a lot. Regular, consistant use, (as convenient as a 30 minute fill-up is) is also hard on the battery chemistry. So even if available accellerated quick charging unlikely to be adopted among individual home owners. Though frequenting a commercial charging facility is a matter of individual owner decision, the station requiring 200+ amp 240 volt dedicated commercial service is a matter of public infrastructure availibility. With out that availibility in the supply, widespread adoption of electric cars as direct gasoline replacements may have some unexpected hurdles.

The UK, & indeed any electric car adopting economy must address infrastructure.

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Old 02-04-20, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Electricity produced by those large windmills has always been interesting to me. I see them hauling the blades on large semi trucks and you get a feel of the scale of those wind driven contraptions. Texas especially out west has several windmills producing clean energy.
Lot of those windmills here too. When is raining W of the Cascades is usually windy to the E. You can see a wind farm from a lot of Teanaway peaks.

They're hugely unpopular with the people who live near them.
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Old 02-04-20, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Lot of those windmills here too. When is raining W of the Cascades is usually windy to the E. You can see a wind farm from a lot of Teanaway peaks.

They're hugely unpopular with the people who live near them.
Would they rather live next to a refinery or nuclear-Coal powerplant?

I doubt it.
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Old 02-04-20, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Lot of those windmills here too. When is raining W of the Cascades is usually windy to the E. You can see a wind farm from a lot of Teanaway peaks.

They're hugely unpopular with the people who live near them.
People hate them along the Texas coast the clean energy isn’t the reason. It ruins the scenery.
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Old 02-04-20, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
They have plans to recycle today's batteries, but the Holy Grail of battery research is to create a battery that doesn't wear out. Lots of money being thrown at this problem, lots of money to be made by whoever solves it. It will be solved.
They always die in the middle of nowhere with no warning they are just dead. The older batteries would sound weak before it’s actual death. A battery that will never die would be great.
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Old 02-04-20, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
They always die in the middle of nowhere with no warning they are just dead. The older batteries would sound weak before it’s actual death. A battery that will never die would be great.
Electric cars are designed to have their batteries replaced when they've lost 10% of their capacity, and then the batteries are reused for other less critical purposes. They don't "die in the middle of nowhere".
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Old 02-04-20, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Lot of those windmills here too. When is raining W of the Cascades is usually windy to the E. You can see a wind farm from a lot of Teanaway peaks.

They're hugely unpopular with the people who live near them.
Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
People hate them along the Texas coast the clean energy isn’t the reason. It ruins the scenery.
Cell phone towers aren't exactly pretty petunias. I don't hear any of the anti-wind folks grumbling about those. And those use rather than generate energy.
I occasionally ride in SE WI in a delightfully challenging hilly area which has easily 100+ windmills (last I counted). There are plenty of both pro and con signs throughout the area.
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Old 02-04-20, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Lot of those windmills here too. When is raining W of the Cascades is usually windy to the E. You can see a wind farm from a lot of Teanaway peaks.

They're hugely unpopular with the people who live near them.
Because they cause cancer. /s
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Old 02-04-20, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
People hate them along the Texas coast the clean energy isn’t the reason. It ruins the scenery.
SOME people. Not all or even most people. Like a previous poster mentioned. Some recognize that the alternative is a coal or nuclear plant. Those who "hate" them would probably hate any power plant in the same location. Typical NIMBY. I grew up in Deer Park. I'll take a windmill farm over that any day!
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Old 02-04-20, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Electric cars are designed to have their batteries replaced when they've lost 10% of their capacity, and then the batteries are reused for other less critical purposes. They don't "die in the middle of nowhere".
I mean the battery that starts you’re conventional car. Not a cells for an electric car.
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Old 02-04-20, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mitkraft View Post
SOME people. Not all or even most people. Like a previous poster mentioned. Some recognize that the alternative is a coal or nuclear plant. Those who "hate" them would probably hate any power plant in the same location. Typical NIMBY. I grew up in Deer Park. I'll take a windmill farm over that any day!
I think I will have beer this place is getting too sensitive The old timers here that played football in 1950s lost to Deer Park two years in a row in the playoffs keeping Hondo out of the state championship game. Personally I think the windmills are great.
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Old 02-04-20, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Lot of those windmills here too. When is raining W of the Cascades is usually windy to the E. You can see a wind farm from a lot of Teanaway peaks.

They're hugely unpopular with the people who live near them.
Except the farmers that make more from the lease on the land the mill is on than the cow that used to graze there.

I think they're unpopular among the other general residents because of what the represent to that half of the state. "A socialist taking of their God-given free-range land for dishonerable hand-outs to the unworthy by the unelected Communist bureaucrats that have taken over Free-attle."

...At least that's what my in-laws tell me as they drive on the roads I subsidize so they can live in a house (supplied with electricity) surrounded by the public forest land I own & pay to maintain. While their children are transported by bus from the boonies to be educated in the schools my tax dollars fund to be taught by teachers my tax dollars pay for. They don't see that their children have clean air & their water is rendered clean or that their toilets flush to a treatment plant paid for out of the general fund by the the tax dollars I provide. (It sure seems awfully socialist, to me...but keeping peace in the family is more important.)

And so it goes. Any actual accounting on the actual ledger provided by the state comptroller is conveniently never learned due to an absence of curiosity or is easily discounted by an unhealthy skepticism & fear fueld by ideologically tainted media.

(Note for others reading this, This whole post in it's entirety is Washington State specific as Seattle Forrest & I reside in the same general region. Three counties of our state has a significant portion of the economic activity [~50%] & the tax revenue from that activity balances the whole of the 39 county total. I have no idea the particulars of your particular region & make no claims to that end. I have no interest in national level commentary or party platform. It's all garbage. So please, just let it be.)

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