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How long does a credit/debit card last before it is compromised?

Old 04-15-20, 06:42 PM
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How long does a credit/debit card last before it is compromised?

So, today I just happened to check my credit card account, and I was stunned to see a nearly $1000 fraudulent charge. Someone had stolen my credit card number somehow, and used it to buy a new computer from Staples. Staples didn't bother to question that the name (my name) was the same on the billing and shipping addresses, but that the addresses were different. Staples also obviously doesn't require a CCV code from the back of the card for verification. Anyway, I was able to contact Staples and get them to cancel the order, but of course have needed to cancel my card and get a new one issued. This is always a big hassle, because I have dozens of accounts including PayPal linked to this card. This card was issued about 5 years ago, and 3 years ago it was upgraded to a chip card, so it probably was not stolen from a card reader. This is the umpteenth time I've had either a credit or debit card number stolen, and it just seems that the longer a particular number is in circulation, the more likely it is to be compromised, no matter how careful you think you've been. Like, I never hand the card to a waiter or otherwise let it out of my sight. I live alone, so there's no one else who has access to it, and for sure I never give the card number anyone over the phone. It probably is the result of a hacked website like Equifax that had my information, or maybe Zappos or whatever, but at the end of the day I guess I probably need to check my account daily and automatically change cards every 5 years.
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Old 04-15-20, 06:48 PM
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Credit card companies usually don't change the card's 16-digit number when the do a normal reissue (maybe every 5 years?), but they do change the CCV code on the back. Do you know if the hack was online or at a store (maybe a compromised card reader?).
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Old 04-15-20, 07:01 PM
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My online site was hacked a few years ago and every transaction for a week was diverted until I was notified by a customer who didn't get his product. It wasn't the web site, but pay pal that got hacked. I still get e-mails telling me they have my old pass code and wanting Bit Coin payments for it. Check your security on PP and update and refresh it to help in this kind if fraud. Smiles, MH
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Old 04-15-20, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by skidder View Post
Credit card companies usually don't change the card's 16-digit number when the do a normal reissue (maybe every 5 years?), but they do change the CCV code on the back. Do you know if the hack was online or at a store (maybe a compromised card reader?).
My card was just renewed 2 months ago, so it has a different CCV code. The problem is that some online merchants do not require a CCV code, nor does the credit card company. Since the vast majority of card readers are chip readers, it seems unlikely that it was stolen at a store. Also, all the information (name, card number and CCV) is now on the back of the card, so it's unlikely it was captured by a hidden camera somewhere when I used it. Anyway, I don't know for sure how or where it was stolen, but I suspect the most likely culprit is a hacked online account.

On another note, I just froze my credit report at Transunion. I had previously frozen my credit reports at Equifax and Experian, but figured since I simply don't need to apply for credit anymore, I might as well maximize my protection from identity theft given how much of my personal information has been obtained by bad actors.
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Old 04-16-20, 07:11 AM
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If you're interested you may want to try looking up at the least, your email address to see if you've be subject to any known breaches.

https://monitor.firefox.com

Also, using a password vault like lastpass and generate a secure password for every different website you use. Just don't make the secret password to the vault something simple!
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Old 04-17-20, 10:28 PM
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skimmers.


Very inexpensive device that criminals use to easily get credit card information.

Criminals typically affix them to gas pumps and ATMS but can be affixed to most any credit card point of sale terminal.

Gang members who you'd think are too stupid to do anything with technology are among the majority of criminals that are responsible for this type of crime in the Southeastern United States. Ala, Ga, Tenn, SC, and Fla are major areas where skimmers are placed everywhere by these criminals. Truckstops, interstate gas stations-convenience stores, and conv. stores-gas stations nearest affluent neighborhoods in cities/suburbs..
These things are hard to see. Sometimes they are nearly invisible unless you are trained to spot them. They are thin and line the credit card insert slot/slide and generally appear to be part of the normal credit card reading slot/slide.

Google: skimmers.
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Old 04-18-20, 05:32 AM
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When using a debit card with a credit card logo (Visa or MasterCard), never use the debit option with the PIN, always use the credit option and sign. This is because the credit card companies insure against fraud, and if someone steals your card number and makes a charge, you will not be held responsible. However, if you use the card in PIN transactions, you are not covered by the card issuers, and getting your money back can be difficult, sometimes impossible.
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Old 04-18-20, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Staples didn't bother to question that the name (my name) was the same on the billing and shipping addresses, but that the addresses were different.
This is extremely common. For example, many people send their packages to their work address. BTW, I had once a fraudulent online order made by someone using my card with shipping address the same as my billing address - in other words, someone, who stole my card data, ordered a package to my home address. Apparently (from the talk with bank security department) this is also quite common - these guys will then just come to a parking lot near the house and will wait for delivery track to arrive, then they'll just ask something like: "Hey, I'm the guy from ..., I believe you should have a package for me!". And usually driver gives them the package.
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Old 04-18-20, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Oso Polar View Post
This is extremely common. For example, many people send their packages to their work address.
Sure, this makes sense if your work address is in the same city as your home address. However, the shipping address on this order was in a different city that is hundreds of miles away ! Also, when shipping to a work address, then the company name will also typically appear in the address, such as:

John Smith
c/o Fudge Industries, Inc.
street address
City, State, Zip Code
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
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Old 04-18-20, 06:56 PM
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It would be a hassle for some, but my bank provides me options to be notified of any charge above a certain amount. I use "zero" so I see every charge almost instantly.
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Old 04-18-20, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling View Post
When using a debit card with a credit card logo (Visa or MasterCard), never use the debit option with the PIN, always use the credit option and sign. This is because the credit card companies insure against fraud, and if someone steals your card number and makes a charge, you will not be held responsible. However, if you use the card in PIN transactions, you are not covered by the card issuers, and getting your money back can be difficult, sometimes impossible.
Look into the Fair Credit Billing Act for credit card liability and the Federal Electronic Fund Transfer Act for debit card liability and you’ll see no liability on either only if certain conditions are met and you've reported it within 60 days of seeing the billing. Which just means knowing the conditions and especially keeping good track of where your cards are and are being used!!!! You could also just go back to the inconvenience and time of using cash and more mail.
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Old 04-20-20, 03:33 PM
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I got a charge that came from some jackalope in Brazil for a video soccer game I was fortunately the credit card company refunded my money and issued a new card within days I had my new card, number etc etc . Pain in the arse changing everything over.
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Old 04-20-20, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 50PlusCycling View Post
When using a debit card with a credit card logo (Visa or MasterCard), never use the debit option with the PIN, always use the credit option and sign. This is because the credit card companies insure against fraud, and if someone steals your card number and makes a charge, you will not be held responsible. However, if you use the card in PIN transactions, you are not covered by the card issuers, and getting your money back can be difficult, sometimes impossible.
Presumably, if you use it as a debit with a PIN, the charge is not fraudulent.
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Old 04-21-20, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Sure, this makes sense if your work address is in the same city as your home address. However, the shipping address on this order was in a different city that is hundreds of miles away !
People also commonly mail-order gifts for other people, even non family members. My son (on the other side of the country) has amazon prime and I do not; once in a while when I need something quick I ask him to Prime it to me and pay him back.
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Old 04-21-20, 09:13 AM
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"Security Theater" -- it's a fantastic term that more people should become familiar with. A guy I work with whose job is hardening our software against attacks, has a bumper sticker on his whiteboard that says "F*@k Security Theater".

the conclusion to that full episode he notes something like "don't worry about whether bad guys might get your credit card number, they probably already have it". But the system should protect most people most of the time.

Good on you for noticing the order in time to stop it, I hope Staples didn't give you any hassle. But even if you weren't fast enough and the order got shipped, I'm sure Staples and/or your credit card company would remove the charge from your card and take care of either finding/punishing the criminal or absorbing the monetary loss.
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Old 04-21-20, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
People also commonly mail-order gifts for other people, even non family members. My son (on the other side of the country) has amazon prime and I do not; once in a while when I need something quick I ask him to Prime it to me and pay him back.
OK, but in that case, both the shipping address and recipient’s name would be different from the billing address and name. In my case, the billing and shipping addresses were different and hundreds of miles apart, but the name (my name) was the same ! That should have raised an alarm with the merchant.
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I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
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Old 04-21-20, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
OK, but in that case, both the shipping address and recipient’s name would be different from the billing address and name. In my case, the billing and shipping addresses were different and hundreds of miles apart, but the name (my name) was the same ! That should have raised an alarm with the merchant.
I guess there's a nontrivial number of people with 2nd homes, vacation homes, etc, that might send stuff to 'themselves' in other locations.
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Old 04-21-20, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
I guess there's a nontrivial number of people with 2nd homes, vacation homes, etc, that might send stuff to 'themselves' in other locations.
Yeah, I guess there’s that too. Ultimately, unless the merchant requests that you also enter your CCV code, there’s no preventing someone from fraudulently using your credit card number if they also know your name and address. The only reason I caught it so quickly is that the thief also had my email address, and used it on the order, so Staples sent me a confirmation which included the order number. I used the link on the order number to enter Staples’ website and request a cancellation, which was made within minutes. In the cancellation request, I informed them that I had not placed or authorized this purchase and that this was a case of credit card fraud. Hopefully, Staples will flag the bad shipping address, so that it won’t be used in the future with another stolen card number.
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me

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Old 04-21-20, 10:33 AM
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Yes, bottom line, it was a bad transaction, there are a number of indicators that should at least ha flagged this for somebody to maybe ask some questions.

Like the first time a customer orders to a new address already seems like there should be some checking going on, maybe a 'just checking in' alert to the customer's on-file email address, that kind of thing.

Kind of dumb for the customer to use your actual email address, maybe that's the only way it would go through and he was just hoping you wouldn't notice it? Any idea if anybody investigated or prosecuted whoever lives at that address? I think sometimes fraudsters order stuff to random innocent people's addresses and plan to snatch the package off the porch. Or at least that's how I'd do it.

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Old 04-21-20, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Kind of dumb for the customer to use your actual email address, maybe that's the only way it would go through and he was just hoping you wouldn't notice it? Any idea if anybody investigated or prosecuted whoever lives at that address? I think sometimes fraudsters order stuff to random innocent people's addresses and plan to snatch the package off the porch. Or at least that's how I'd do it.
This all happened less than a week ago, so I doubt that there’s been any action taken regarding the fraudster’s address. The charge had posted but not yet been finalized on my credit card account, so there has not been any need for Staples or my card company to issue any credit and this was just a case of attempted fraud that did not actually occur. The temporary pending charge still appears on my card account, but will no doubt expire if not used by a certain time. The card company told me that they will track this pending charge, and if for some reason it still goes through, then they will issue me a credit against it. The fraudster’s shipping address might just be a vacant home that is being watched, and not the actual home address of the perp.
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me

Last edited by TejanoTrackie; 04-22-20 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 09-22-20, 03:43 PM
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Update on 09-22-20

Today I found out exactly how my credit card was stolen. I received a letter from an e-commerce company that runs a website where I bought a cordless electric leaf blower, stating that they were the victim of a cyber attack and data breach that stole credit card numbers, including the CVV as well as the cardholder's name and address. It also obviously stole my email address, which was used in the subsequent fraudulent purchase. I have two different emails, and the one that was stolen is used very infrequently, so it clearly pointed to this website where I made the purchase. Apparently this crime was going on for nearly a year before they discovered it. I normally use PayPal to make my online purchases wherever possible, and realize that any time I use my credit card that there is a risk that it will be stolen, no matter how secure a website may appear to be.
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Originally Posted by Dcv View Post
I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
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Old 09-22-20, 04:25 PM
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Yup, I use PayPal as much as possible. So far no problems.
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Old 09-22-20, 05:01 PM
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I blame the electric leaf blower for this
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Old 09-22-20, 06:37 PM
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Recently read this..good book that'll give you a better idea how this happened.

Some hacker took control of the leaf-blower site and every transaction they made, and all data associated with it, was automatically transferred to the hacker, within seconds of the transaction completion. The info is then sold, globally. Those that buy the info then have shoppers that buy stuff until the card-data is dead. The "stuff" ends up on ebay. Most likely the leaf-blower e-commerce site didn't update their systems with the latest patches, or the transaction processing software(or service) they used is sloppy..and their customers pay the price, initially.

https://www.amazon.com/Kingpin-Kevin...s=books&sr=1-1
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Old 09-26-20, 08:23 PM
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Today I placed an online order with a Swiss company using PayPal, which in turn charged my credit card. Shortly thereafter, I received a text message from my bank asking if I recognized this charge, and requesting that I confirm with a YES in order to continue using my card. They also flagged two other recent domestic charges. This is the second time they’ve done this since I had the new card issued, so I guess they are monitoring my account more closely since the previous one got stolen. They also monitor my physical location with my iPhone, so if the physical card gets stolen, it can’t be used without the phone being at the same location. Nice to know they are paying attention.
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I'd like to think i have as much money as brains.
I see the light at the end of the tunnel, but the tunnel keeps getting longer - me
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