Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Foo
Reload this Page >

Why are Drug Users Inhuman?

Notices
Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

Why are Drug Users Inhuman?

Old 11-13-20, 10:57 AM
  #1  
John Foster
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 23

Bikes: '16 Scott CR1 '82 Norco MagnumII

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Why are Drug Users Inhuman?

I get so sad reading the letters to the editor in my local paper. The scorn and hatred thrown at drug users is so intense. Anytime the subject of safe consumption sites, supportive street patrols, new shelters comes up many people seem to lose their minds. I understand that addicts commit crimes, hurt themselves and others, splinter families, don't grab the helping hands extended to them etc. The same level of scorn does not extend to reckless drivers, overeaters, high risk sport participants, people who ignore work safety rules etc. My question is; Do you think that in their quietest moments these upset people can see drug addicts as their very ill brothers and sisters?
John Foster is offline  
Likes For John Foster:
Old 11-13-20, 11:38 AM
  #2  
hsuBM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 75 Posts
To your question at the end: No.

These people are narcissists who persevered through favorable circumstances and can’t be bothered to actually imagine what real depression could be like. They have no concept of what mental illness is, regardless of whether they’re suffering with one or not.

The ones who have to write in the paper almost definitely text while driving, drive while buzzed and/or drunk, have self-inflicted diabetes and/or other self-inflicted diseases/disorders which put unnecessary strain on our healthcare syndicate, and yell at cyclists to get out of the way while being ignorant to the luxury of one less car in line in front of them at the next red light thanks to each cyclist at whom they yell.

Teachers gonna teach, killers gonna kill, druggies gonna drug, haters gonna hate.
You are free choose to live adjacent to them or to dive in and participate.
hsuBM is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 11:51 AM
  #3  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,822

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1108 Post(s)
Liked 1,162 Times in 788 Posts
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post
I get so sad reading the letters to the editor in my local paper. The scorn and hatred thrown at drug users is so intense. Anytime the subject of safe consumption sites, supportive street patrols, new shelters comes up many people seem to lose their minds. I understand that addicts commit crimes, hurt themselves and others, splinter families, don't grab the helping hands extended to them etc. The same level of scorn does not extend to reckless drivers, overeaters, high risk sport participants, people who ignore work safety rules etc. My question is; Do you think that in their quietest moments these upset people can see drug addicts as their very ill brothers and sisters?

What is your personal experience with addicts?

I've experienced the bolded part of your statement first hand on multiple occasions in my life. All the hard core addicts I've known drag down the people around them. They are essentially a black hole and suck the life out of most people around them.

Addicts not related to me have robbed me and stolen from me.

My previous wife was also an addict and no amount of intervention, counseling, or inpatient care changed her more than a month at a time at most. She wouldn't keep a job or activity and simply sucked us dry emotionally and financially. She eventually took her own life at age 38 with legal drugs, leaving my daughter (then 9 years old) to discover her body and call 911.

Nothing much more heartbreaking than hearing your daughter ask you, "Why did this happen to me, I'm only 9?".

My daughter received bi-weekly counseling for over a year due to that.

Considering my nearly two decades of experiencing first hand what addicts do to others, I'm glad to let others deal with it now.

Last edited by FiftySix; 11-13-20 at 12:02 PM.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 12:06 PM
  #4  
John Foster
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 23

Bikes: '16 Scott CR1 '82 Norco MagnumII

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
I am sorry for your and your family's loss

No, my experience has not been as harsh as yours and I would never attempt to preach to you. I wish you and your daughter all the best. My experiences have been limited to co-workers and those of cousins and cousin's children. This was a philosophical question not intended to tell anyone how to grieve or heal. Sorry for any offense

P.S. Norco riders should stick together.
John Foster is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 12:08 PM
  #5  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,822

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1108 Post(s)
Liked 1,162 Times in 788 Posts
Originally Posted by John Foster View Post
No, my experience has not been as harsh as yours and I would never attempt to preach to you. I wish you and your daughter all the best. My experiences have been limited to co-workers and those of cousins and cousin's children. This was a philosophical question not intended to tell anyone how to grieve or heal. Sorry for any offense
No offense taken. Unfortunately, my empathy for addicts is virtually nil now.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 02:50 PM
  #6  
clemsongirl 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,430 Times in 460 Posts
I had a close cousin who i grew up with and who went through addiction. I learned a lot about it from that experience. The most important aspect was having empathy and thinking of the pain and hopelessness of it and having compassion for the person experiencing it and importantly not why the addiction but why the pain leading them into it.

When we choose not to be compassionate we can pass judgment. That just perpetuates the cycle of shame and stigma which only hurts the addicted person more. Before passing judgment on someone who is self-destructing, it’s important to remember they usually aren’t trying to destroy themselves. They’re trying to destroy something inside that doesn’t belong. For my cousin it was childhood sexual abuse which is just one of the traumas and mental health issues that can lead to addiction. When we draw on compassion, instead of contempt it also helps to really understand the individual human experience of someone who has an addiction. When we are compassionate we promote inclusiveness and understanding which helps much more for a successful recovery.

There is no doubt that addiction can put a tremendous strain on relationships and some relationships it destroys forever. Being able to put yourself in their place and caring about what they’re going through helps you understand. Caring about their suffering makes it easier to be patient and give them space to heal too. Through our support and understanding my cousin came through treatment with a healthy understanding of the reasons she had the strength to move on in a successful way and looked to a good future. She then died in the Bataclan theatre terrorist massacre in France 5 years ago today, which is why i’m posting this. I’m forever grateful of the lessons i learned through knowing and helping her……
__________________
"The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron
clemsongirl is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 04:32 PM
  #7  
StupidlyBrave 
Chepooka
 
StupidlyBrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 1,172

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1400 7spd; 2001 Litespeed Arenberg 10 speed

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times in 219 Posts
I wrote this a few years ago

I remember a bubbly young girl at my house for sleepovers, dancing in my family room. I remember seeing her grow into a young woman, skeptical of society at times and a glance which could convey her meaning uniquely and effortlessly. I remember discussing issues I had with my own kids with her parents - and visa-versa. I remember hearing that there was a dark side to her story. And I distinctly remember her dad telling me that they thought she had turned a corner and was getting better. I didn't really know how dark her story was until later. Maybe I didn't know how to ask.
I was shocked to hear of her poisoning (Fentanyl). Her father found her in a distorted position and tried CPR. I don't actually know if they tried Narcan or if it was too late. They managed to keep her body alive so as to donate whatever they could. I do know that someone else looks through those pretty blue eyes now. I can't begin to describe her parent's pain and grief.
Addiction is a disease, not a choice.
StupidlyBrave is online now  
Old 11-13-20, 05:24 PM
  #8  
ahsposo 
Pounding Member
 
ahsposo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In the Bag
Posts: 7,134

Bikes: A Home Built All Rounder, Bianchi 928, Specialized Langster, Dahon Folder

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5093 Post(s)
Liked 2,161 Times in 1,306 Posts
Not to make light of deadly addiction; My personal addiction is nicotine. I haven't smoked or used any nicotine delivery system in about 30 years. I quit cold turkey 3 times with years going by between relapses into using.

I know how my thoughts work to encourage my addiction, how strongly my body will prod me to give in and use. I've used a lot of things for recreation but nothing has ever had the grip nicotine/tobacco has on me. As I type this I can sense the stirring of a desire to smoke even after 30 years. I still remember though how quickly I regained my former level of usage the last time I gave into that craving.

I drank alcohol daily for almost 45 years and quitting that was easy compared to tobacco.

I have complete sympathy for addicts. I also know that it takes a personal desire and commitment to quit and for a lot of folks a support system like AA, NA.

The war on drugs is failed policy and should be not only abandoned but the funds budgeted for it diverted to social programs/ counseling for addiction.

Here's a link to a now 20 year old decriminalization experiment.
ahsposo is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 05:31 PM
  #9  
Hondo Gravel
Society Dropout
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,030

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1636 Post(s)
Liked 1,698 Times in 1,079 Posts
I did plenty of drugs in my youth. Thankfully never got addicted. Does Coors Light count as a drug?
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 05:37 PM
  #10  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,690
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1623 Post(s)
Liked 1,043 Times in 625 Posts
Only if you chug about 3 of them really fast.

Re Nicotine, it has the ability to almost hard wire itself into some people's brains, to the point where they can't function without it. Fortunately, I don't have that gene, I can take or leave tobacco pretty much at will. Coffee, not so much.

Another thing about cigarettes is that they have so many chemicals added to them, that you have to consider what each of them is doing to the user, in addition to just the nicotine. People may be actually getting hooked on those chemicals, for all we know.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 07:06 PM
  #11  
curbtender
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 6,630

Bikes: Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Schwinn Speedster, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, MB3

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 925 Post(s)
Liked 443 Times in 316 Posts
I talked to a dying man who had ravaged his body and relationships his whole adult life. I asked him if he didn't feel it was a bit late. He said he didn't quit to get better, but to apologize in a sober manner for the life he chose. He passed with no family but had turned a few addicts before he left. They dont all figure it out.
curbtender is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 07:21 PM
  #12  
Hondo Gravel
Society Dropout
 
Hondo Gravel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 2,030

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1636 Post(s)
Liked 1,698 Times in 1,079 Posts
How I never smoked cigarettes I can only guess. I have been around smokers forever but never had the desire to smoke. Alcohol on the other hand is my only vice. Light cold nasty by most people’s standards Keystone Light. So ingrained in the culture here massive beer consumption is normal and unnoticed. Not a fan of hard liquor it hits you too fast and hard. Beer on the other hand you can gradually feel it and you know when to stop or what your limit is. Hot coffee in the morning is mandatory but not too much or it’s Max Headroom time. You 80s kids know who Max Headroom is
Sorry for you all that lost people to addiction. I have had few relatives pass on from addiction but they were a holes even when sober. I don’t miss them.

Last edited by Hondo Gravel; 11-13-20 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Know not Now
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 11-13-20, 07:49 PM
  #13  
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,606

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Volae Team, Priority Eight, Nimbus MUni, Trek Roscoe 6.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 374 Post(s)
Liked 649 Times in 344 Posts
Re: addiction and criminality.

Are there other conditions where we convict a person for doing something, because we associate that activity with crime?

Like, if stock market fraud is associated with MBAs, do we put people in jail for getting an MBA?

We have some staggering amount of corporate theft; Enron, Wells Fargo, et al. Dollar amounts that surely compare with the total thievery of all addicts in the country. Should we not identify the behaviors associated with perps who commit this level of theft, and throw all the offenders in prison? Anyone owning a car worth over $150k?

The annual cost of fraud among large US corporations is $181 - $364 billion.

That's as much as 50% of the cost of crime in the country. Maybe we should arrest anyone wearing a suit.
downtube42 is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 08:09 PM
  #14  
bargo68
Senior Member
 
bargo68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fairfax, California
Posts: 306

Bikes: 2008 Surly Cross Check, 1979 Miyata Gran Touring, 1983 Miyata Ridge Runner, 1997 Serotta Atlanta

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times in 137 Posts
Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I did plenty of drugs in my youth. Thankfully never got addicted. Does Coors Light count as a drug?
A diuretic at best.
bargo68 is offline  
Likes For bargo68:
Old 11-13-20, 08:59 PM
  #15  
ahsposo 
Pounding Member
 
ahsposo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: In the Bag
Posts: 7,134

Bikes: A Home Built All Rounder, Bianchi 928, Specialized Langster, Dahon Folder

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5093 Post(s)
Liked 2,161 Times in 1,306 Posts
Originally Posted by bargo68 View Post
A diuretic at best.
It's pretty lousy as mouthwash. Sour Mash is better for that.
ahsposo is offline  
Likes For ahsposo:
Old 11-13-20, 10:56 PM
  #16  
Russ Roth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 1,394

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 507 Post(s)
Liked 356 Times in 277 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
No offense taken. Unfortunately, my empathy for addicts is virtually nil now.
But is it hatred now? Can't imagine the pain your daughter felt and I can't imagine the trauma she'll have to deal with; I feel sad for both of you.
I've three times had to deal with the loss of friends/family from drunk drivers, I have no pity or sympathy for anyone who screws up their life in a drunk car accident, end up in jail or lose their license and job as a result. I've seen the results of their choices too many times and with 3 kids I'm sure in another decade I'll get to see more as their friends come of age. But I still don't have room for the hatred that the OP is referring to. If you do I feel for you but you're clearly coming from a place where you have justification and I can't judge that.

OP, there is a immoral minority in this country that has for too long stylized themselves as the moral backbone of this country, people who self righteously believe that anyone who doesn't live and act as they do is somehow less. That any moral failing by their standards makes you less then or other. Typically it revolves around drugs, sexual orientation, and sexual autonomy for women and they're all too happy to push their morality onto others never realizing or caring about the damage they do and how immoral their actions really can be. I find it sad really.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 11-13-20, 11:14 PM
  #17  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,293

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 186 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3957 Post(s)
Liked 1,719 Times in 1,106 Posts
I wouldn't put much stock in a rant to a newspaper or online comment on a media outlet's page. I was in the newspaper biz years ago and every small town and city has at least one curmudgeon whose sole entertainment is passing judgment on every issue that catches his/her gnatlike attention. Internet comment sections have drawn out more of those types, but their thinking process isn't any deeper now than it was decades ago. We ignored many of those rants and edited some. But few media outlets now have any editorial standards for reader/viewer comments.

The issue is far too complex even for a lengthy forum post. I've seen every side of the issue, between working in health care, volunteering for support groups, and coming from an extended family with a lot of substance abuse issues.

I went through years of being so fed up with addicts that I had little empathy or patience for dealers, druggies and drunks. But the past 20 years I've reconsidered and tend to be more empathetic.

However I don't buy the false equivalence of addiction and disease. Never have, never will. I've worked with patients who actually have diseases that eventually killed them prematurely despite the best efforts of medical care. Ordinary people who had few or no vices ended up with cancer, diabetes, heart and lung disease, kidney failure, etc., and did everything they could to prolong their lives, to no avail.

The craving for drugs and alcohol seems to have, in some people, a genetic component and powerful biological urge, but the choice to actually use, misuse or abuse drugs, alcohol and tobacco is still that -- a choice. They put it into their bodies. Nobody is forcing it into their veins, gullets and lungs. They may have gotten a raw deal in the genetic coin toss and crave it more desperately than others. They may have legitimate physical pain and mental anguish that makes it seem like the best, or only, solution.

But it's not the cancer that killed my dad, that killed my thyroid, or the Parkinson's that took my uncle's once brilliant mind, or the congestive heart failure that took my health-conscious grandmother, or wrecked the kidneys of the young patients I cared for in hemodialysis, who hadn't even lived long enough to have developed any vices.

I can empathize with the relentless struggle to cope with the craving of addiction. But not with the action to put the stuff into the body and make their problems into someone else's problems. One of my neighbors is a continual problem for everyone in the area, disrupting the apartment complex, and racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills for unnecessary emergency response calls, and medical care beyond the usual needs that accompany aging. That one person, and others like this person, consume more resources than dozens of others who aren't addicts and alcoholics.

And it's also relevant that not all addicts are so selfish that they make themselves into problems for entire families and communities. That's a whole other level of mental illness. I've known some folks who keep their substance abuse to themselves. I have a bit more empathy for them.

Fortunately I've seen a few who successfully overcame their addictions. Not many, but just enough to make it worth the effort to continue hoping for the best.
canklecat is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.