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Rolling Coal is the least of it

Old 12-02-20, 09:42 AM
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Rolling Coal is the least of it

Our friends in pickup trucks with modifications ...

Aftermarket truck mods pollute as much as 9 million extra pickups
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Old 12-02-20, 10:14 AM
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FL stopped doing emission testing decades ago. The argument was most everyone's car had newer emission control devices, so why bother spending money on testing. This is the result.
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Old 12-02-20, 10:54 AM
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Comments are quite interesting... Wow.
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Old 12-02-20, 11:21 AM
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An inventive type could come up with a handlebar mounted camera that could zoom into the back of the truck close enough to read the license plate but including enough to see the "coal". Record the GPS and date/time on the image. Now whether the authorities did anything after being presented with the evidence probably depends on the state and county.
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Old 12-02-20, 11:40 AM
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I thought this was going to be about mods like lifting, knobby tires, roof racks and light bars all of which quite notably degrade mpg.
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Old 12-02-20, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
An inventive type could come up with a handlebar mounted camera that could zoom into the back of the truck close enough to read the license plate but including enough to see the "coal". Record the GPS and date/time on the image. Now whether the authorities did anything after being presented with the evidence probably depends on the state and county.
I wouldn't count on those laws being enforced, similar laws for noise aren't and I don't see why these laws would be any different.
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Old 12-02-20, 02:39 PM
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Let me tell you about the guy who tried it on me, but only succeeded in accelerating. And got a dirty look from his passenger
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Old 12-02-20, 03:12 PM
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Modding a truck to roll coal is the most American way to self-identify as a hillbilly cretin from Deliverance. They probably got right purty mouths too.
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Old 12-02-20, 03:17 PM
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Does ars (or any current) do an article on the actual environmental cost of one of these lithium car batteries as opposed to this?

Totally not a fan of the *******s that do this, particularly to cyclists in these parts.
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Old 12-02-20, 04:37 PM
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Yeah, if we switch completely to battery powered electric vehicles, today's coal-rollers will mod their trucks to dump hazardous waste on the road.
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Old 12-02-20, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
Does ars (or any current) do an article on the actual environmental cost of one of these lithium car batteries as opposed to this?
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lith...ronment-impact
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Old 12-02-20, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
Does ars (or any current) do an article on the actual environmental cost of one of these lithium car batteries as opposed to this?

.
Climate explained: the environmental footprint of electric versus fossil cars
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Old 12-02-20, 09:12 PM
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.
...here in California, I was one of the first guys to get a Smog inspection certification (this was back in about 1985).
I wuz unhappy workin' fo' de gubb'mint, and decided it would be more honest to just stand around in a drafty garage, smogging cars for a living.

Turns out that the field was rife with dishonesty back in the early days, and the people making most of the money were the guys making the equipment....which was continually requiring expensive new updates, and generally becoming more and more tamper proof. I was lucky to get a different job. But it's pretty tough to run anything modified in California these days without running afoul of the Man.

Today's vehicles are constantly reporting stuff on emissions, both to a control module that keeps a record that can be accessed, and sent out over the airwaves to mysterious destinations.

I'm told by the guy who teaches classes here to the Central Valley smog cert mechanics, (on how to keep from getting busted by investigators with intentionally modified trap cars posing as customers, among other things), that inside of five or six years, it's anticipated that there will be no more in person smog inspections. The whole thing for fossil fuel ICE cars will be automated. If your car sends in data that you're out off spec, the notice goes out automagically.

Anyway. 'Lectric is all the rage here for the future. Remains to be seen how it will all play out. A guy with a silent electric car will kill you just as dead on your bicycle as any other kind of car. You just won't hear it coming.
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Old 12-02-20, 09:18 PM
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Also this one is good, with respect to evaluating carbon footprint.

Finding the true carbon footprint of a car manufacturing supply chain is far from easy, with so many components arriving from so many global sources. Polestar has done this for its vehicle, but with so much economic interest at stake, convincing other manufacturers to follow suit is unlikely when it could make them look as bad as Dieselgate did for VW. What the Greenpeace PHEV research illustrates is that there is an ecological game of cat-and-mouse taking place, where governments set green targets and manufacturers try to fulfil them with as little disruption to their business models as possible. Unfortunately, this game means there will be many more questionable claims to work through as we transform our transport to vehicles that really do have less impact on global warming and urban air pollution.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...h=3ec75aea4d40
...there's a human tendency to game any system.
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Old 12-02-20, 10:01 PM
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The rednecks around here back in the 80s would get a glass pack muffler run the truck until the muffler was hot then go to the car wash and spray the muffler shattering the glass. The result was a loud cracking sound FRIKIN morons. I had my 4x4 with the roll bar and KC lights but with normal exhaust but I guess I was a weird one since I had long hair and listen to hard rock and heavy metal. I have seen a few of these BOBOSOS trying to make a light duty truck look like a semi. FRIKIN ridiculous..
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Old 12-02-20, 11:10 PM
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This is why I have a rocket launcher on my bike. Maybe I need one on my car, too.
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Old 12-03-20, 12:23 AM
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Some tidbits
  • At least one automotive diesel engine manufacturer understands that if their security successfully blocked hacking, they will lose customers. Security only has to be good enough to convince the regulators "we tried".
  • Companies that develop engine mod software have more software engineers hacking engine control systems, than engine companies have developing engine control systems. So it's pretty much game over anyway, even if engine companies tried their best.
  • Volkswagen was not the first company to put code in their control system to recognize when an emissions test was under way. When the EPA learned of the first such cheat, their response was "we don't care, they passed the test." It was years before they decided they cared.
  • An unmodified modern automotive diesel engine produces significantly less greenhouse gasses than does a comparable gasoline engine. With a properly functioning system to capture particulates, diesels are cleaner across the board.
  • California will ban diesels in passenger cars, then in light duty trucks (pick-ups). Not because the engines are inherently bad (see the 4th point above), but because of the first three points.
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Old 12-03-20, 12:43 AM
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I used to have a modded WRX and every two years Iíd dutifully swap on the stock exhaust and ďunmarryĒ the computer from the programming module and go get it smogged. Now Iím middle aged and drive a pickup I donít really care about, and itís a relief to just follow the rules. Iím spending that extra effort on... bicycles!
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Old 12-03-20, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
The rednecks around here back in the 80s would get a glass pack muffler run the truck until the muffler was hot then go to the car wash and spray the muffler shattering the glass. The result was a loud cracking sound FRIKIN morons. I had my 4x4 with the roll bar and KC lights but with normal exhaust but I guess I was a weird one since I had long hair and listen to hard rock and heavy metal. I have seen a few of these BOBOSOS trying to make a light duty truck look like a semi. FRIKIN ridiculous..
Those folks weren't very smart. Glasspack mufflers have fiberglass in them, not glass.
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Old 12-03-20, 07:28 AM
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The fiber type of glass I need to more redneck glossary learnin
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Old 12-03-20, 08:27 AM
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Rolling coal is outdated when one is trying to make more horsepower out their diesel truck......... here's an excerpt from an older article, but it is still relevant today.

Diesel Drag Racing

ďOne of the things weíve seen a lot of over the years is that many of these trucks are using a lot of fuel. A lot of fuel equates to a lot of black smoke, and black smoke is not really the future of the sport. Black smoke comes from over-fueling a vehicle, and thatís just not where the maximum power gains come from. Expect to see the companies that have the wherewithal and the engineering capability make the sport of diesel drag racing, and all diesels, get really clean. I think weíre going to see the power take another leap here in the near future, and as it goes up, I think youíre really going to see really clean diesels that essentially have no smoke. Thatís one of the things you can expect to see from ATS Diesel in the future.Ē

"The emphasis on eliminating black smoke surrounding diesels comes at a time when the EPA is taking a close look at aftermarket products for these vehicles. However, that fact hasnít deterred consumer interest in the vehicles, and it certainly hasnít kept fans out of the stands at diesel drag races."


https://theshopmag.com/features/diesel-drag-racing/
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Old 12-03-20, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
Some tidbits
  • At least one automotive diesel engine manufacturer understands that if their security successfully blocked hacking, they will lose customers. Security only has to be good enough to convince the regulators "we tried".
  • Companies that develop engine mod software have more software engineers hacking engine control systems, than engine companies have developing engine control systems. So it's pretty much game over anyway, even if engine companies tried their best.
  • Volkswagen was not the first company to put code in their control system to recognize when an emissions test was under way. When the EPA learned of the first such cheat, their response was "we don't care, they passed the test." It was years before they decided they cared.
  • An unmodified modern automotive diesel engine produces significantly less greenhouse gasses than does a comparable gasoline engine. With a properly functioning system to capture particulates, diesels are cleaner across the board.
  • California will ban diesels in passenger cars, then in light duty trucks (pick-ups). Not because the engines are inherently bad (see the 4th point above), but because of the first three points.
One problem with software security is right to repair. That is a pretty huge thing and people should have those rights. for every ass hole rolling coal there are a bunch of people that just want to be able to clear a check engine light after a successful repair. VW and mercedes(I believe) both got sued over not letting mechanics have access to their software. all of the stuff is supposed to be accessible so people don't get locked into dealer only repairs..

Manufactures would very much like to lock down all software so no one can service it except them. John Deere and Tesla are both current examples where they are constantly screwing people that make their own repairs or have repairs made by local mechanics.
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Old 12-03-20, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by sloppy12 View Post
One problem with software security is right to repair. That is a pretty huge thing and people should have those rights. for every ass hole rolling coal there are a bunch of people that just want to be able to clear a check engine light after a successful repair. VW and mercedes(I believe) both got sued over not letting mechanics have access to their software. all of the stuff is supposed to be accessible so people don't get locked into dealer only repairs..

Manufactures would very much like to lock down all software so no one can service it except them. John Deere and Tesla are both current examples where they are constantly screwing people that make their own repairs or have repairs made by local mechanics.
John Deere is orders of magnitude worse than all the others in this regard....because the places where a Deere tractor needs work from an 'approved' wrench, necessarily always involve a drive-out call of measured in hundreds of miles.

Funny tidbits...Nebraska actually has never had a vehicle emissions/safety inspection law in place. It was proposed and then the Farm Folk raised hell, whining about needing to drive to a DMV or testing site. And it was scrapped.
Similarly, a Right to Repair Bill made huge waves in Nebraska 3 years back...specifically because of Deere tractors and the like and the outrageous service call price for even minor work. Did I mention that the law made waves? It made so many waves that, overnight, Case and Deere bought the farmer-dominated state legislature--including even those who drafted and sponsored the bill. Overnight. Within 24 hours of being announced, the Deere and Case made the bill so radioactive that no one would touch it or sponsor it to the floor for debate. And so it died.
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Old 12-03-20, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sloppy12 View Post
One problem with software security is right to repair. That is a pretty huge thing and people should have those rights. for every ass hole rolling coal there are a bunch of people that just want to be able to clear a check engine light after a successful repair. VW and mercedes(I believe) both got sued over not letting mechanics have access to their software. all of the stuff is supposed to be accessible so people don't get locked into dealer only repairs..

Manufactures would very much like to lock down all software so no one can service it except them. John Deere and Tesla are both current examples where they are constantly screwing people that make their own repairs or have repairs made by local mechanics.
Right to repair doesn't need to interfere with or compromise security. Authorized/corporate service centers are given tools that enable service, without the ability to defeat emissions controls. Right to repair can be met by making those tools, or off-the-shelf equivalent, available to anyone. It may hurt profits, but it doesn't compromise security.

Right to repair does not mean right to run with part of the system removed, or even right to install generic parts.
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Old 12-03-20, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
An unmodified modern automotive diesel engine produces significantly less greenhouse gasses than does a comparable gasoline engine. With a properly functioning system to capture particulates, diesels are cleaner across the board.
...source link for this ? I'm curious, because I used to do this stuff. And I live in the Great Central Valley, where air quality is always a problem.

And it's news to me. I'm completely unfamiliar with the " properly functioning system to capture particulates ", but I haven't touched a diesel since I worked for Minneapolis Transit in the late 1970's. Diesels were never smogged here, because nobody could figure out how to do it. And the trucking and transit industries fought hard to be exempted when the laws were first considered and written.​​​​​



Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
California will ban diesels in passenger cars, then in light duty trucks (pick-ups). Not because the engines are inherently bad (see the 4th point above), but because of the first three points.
...I believe the rationale was the development and encouragement of ZEV's. Which presumably will be available by the time the bans take effect. So I'm puzzled as to your point in posting this?

California passes landmark mandate for zero emission trucks

The proposed mandate is expected to start in the 2024 model year and initially require 5%-9% zero emission vehicles (ZEV) based on class, rising to 30%-50% by 2030. By 2045, all vehicles should be ZEVs “where feasible.”

The regulation would apply to pickup trucks weighing 8,500 pounds or more, but not to light-duty trucks, which are covered by separate zero emission regulations.

CARB plans a separate rule in early 2021 that will require large fleet owners to buy some ZEVs.

The move comes as a rising number of companies including Rivian, Tesla Inc TSLA.O, Nikola Corp NKLA.O and General Motors GM.N are working to introduce zero emission trucks.

Heavy-duty trucks are the largest source of smog-forming nitrogen oxide (NOx) pollution in California.
California Governor Orders End Of Gasoline & Diesel Car Sales By 2035

The inferno of wildfires that gripped California recently have spurred its governor, Gavin Newsom, to issue an executive order banning the sale of new gasoline and diesel powered cars, minivans, and SUVs by 2035. Medium and heavy duty trucks will face a similar ban in 2045. Vehicle emissions are responsible for more than half of all of California’s carbon pollution, 80 percent of smog-forming pollution and 95 percent of toxic diesel emissions. No wonder communities in the Los Angeles Basin and Central Valley have some of the dirtiest and most toxic air in the country.
.
The state’s Air Resources Board along with other relevant agencies are tasked with working together with private parties to create the infrastructure needed to support an EV only future. CARB will also draft rules to eliminate gasoline and diesel power medium and heavy duty trucks by 2045. The order places particular emphasis on creating transportation alternatives for low income neighborhoods, including improved infrastructure for pedestrians and bicyclists
.
Critics complain that electric cars are still too expensive but the governor’s office has an answer for that. “By the time the new rule goes into effect, zero-emission vehicles will almost certainly be cheaper and better than the traditional fossil fuel powered cars. The upfront cost of electric vehicles are projected to reach parity with conventional vehicles in just a matter of years, and the cost of owning the car — both in maintenance and how much it costs to power the car mile for mile — is far less than a fossil fuel burning vehicle.”


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